I’m thinking about making an offer on an approved short sale in Santa Ana, California. The approved price (previous buyer backed out) is within my budget, and is some 10% below comps. The house is on a low-crime street, is a good size on a large (for the area) lot, and has lots of extra space in the form of a converted 2-car garage, a shed, and a container (yes, you read correctly, a shipping container) in the back yard.
Right now, I’m trying to figure up my known added expenses to make the place livable. Obviously, I’ll need to schedule inspections to determine the unknown added expenses.
The house has been vacant for a year and needs a general cleaning and minor repairs throughout. If the house were the only issue, it would be a no brainer. It needs some appliances, window treatments, patching of some areas of the EIFS (I assume that’s what all the styrofoam-like trim is).
It appears that the previous owner rented out the garage, shed, and container to large numbers of people who drank excessively and did not engage in good hygiene. The stench from the garage is pretty potent, and there are
-filled 40oz beer bottles standing around and a large brown stain on one of the carpets, as well as a couple of broken windows, including a broken skylight. The shed and container don’t smell anywhere nearly as bad.
THE CURRENT QUESTION, however, relates to the side of the house. The house is less than 10′ from the lot line, and fronts on an apartment building that has balconies on the second floor. It is evident that the occupants of those apartments whose balconies face this property do not maintain a tidy home, and they’ve been throwing the garbage that doesn’t fit on their balconies over the 6′ wooden fence separating the properties, and into the yard next to the house. There is also an area where the wood boards have been pushed in so that one can squeeze through the fence.
So, leaving aside questions of how desirable a neighborhood this is or is not (everything else on this street looks nice, it seems to be just this apartment building), what to do to improve the fencing to keep the garbage out (and to limit the visibility of our household activities to curious eyes from the balconies)?
My husband suggested erecting a really tall chain link fence and lining it with some type of nylon fabric (I’m not really sure what he is referring to, he says he saw a lot of this type of fencing in the Bay area, that seemed to serve exactly this purpose), or planting a fast-growing ivy (or other climbing plant) at its base.
One question is, how much would such a fence cost? Then there’s the question of what sorts of restrictions the city of Santa Ana places on residential fences, and do they require a permit (I cant imagine them not requiring a permit for something as tall as this would need to be).
What low-cost but not ugly alternatives can anyone suggest? I rather like the idea of planting climbing plants at the base of whatever is used.
Thanks for any suggestions,
Rebeccah
Replies
I can't imagine that the city would allow you to build a tall fence.
Yeah - I'm going to check with the building department on Monday to find out what the restrictions are, as well as check what permits are on file for the house's previous remodeling work.Three other ideas:
1. A free-standing "living fence" of some sort. The only thing is, something that will grow tall enough unsupported will require more space than we have between the wooden fence and the house. I'd want it to be right up next to the fence, so stuff wouldn't fall between the wood fence and the "living" fence.
2. A couple of strategically placed *trellises* (rather than fences), one opposite each of the offending balconies. This could work, but again, they would need to be tall.
3. Construct some sort of an outdoor shelter with a roof that slopes toward the property line. The shelter would be open on all sides, but could butt up against the wooden fence, so anything they throw out there would slide back onto their side. If it were a permanent structure, could be a problem because of setback requirements or theoretical rainwater runoff issues (it doesn't rain much here), but if it were a temporary structure? Hey, if we didn't care about appearance, we could even put the EZ-Up canopy up on blocks to get it to the height of the top of the wooden fence. But we do care about appearance, so it won't be that. But perhaps something awning-like.Rebeccah
sounds like the neighbors would ruin your investment.
>>"sounds like the neighbors would ruin your investment."Agreed -- seems to me that re-habbing needs to start with the neighbors, including those who live in the high rise, and throw their garbage over the balcony railing.
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
santa ana has some great areas. Even with that, when a property is abandoned, people will abuse it when no one cares. Best suggestion is to talk with the neighbors and check the area out at night and weekends. It's amazing how many people only look at home during the day, when most people are more civil or woorking.
also, track down some of the local police and ask them. they will usually give you a good indication. Remember, even with their advice, they are making a detrermination based on people, and you also need to take value into consideration.
Do you recall some of Sancho's past postings about what he went through in Long Beach???
Thanks, migraine.I was there in the evening on Thursday just driving by, and Kalim and I wandered around the neighborhood a bit late this afternoon after we toured the house. It's on Bush, just north of 17th St. We eat at Norm's (17th and Main) from time to time and have never been particularly worried about that general area. Bush over there is a nice, quiet street, with a bunch of Victorian houses and neatly manicured lawns. This house and the one next to it, however, are flanked by apartment buildings. When I was driving through, the apartment buildings in the area seemed well-kept, well-lit, and no objectionable activity going on. On foot, some of them are nicer than others, but even the one next to the house really doesn't look bad from the street, and there is one really nice looking complex about a block up.A block over, on Spurgeon, is another story. Lots of people around, gambling going on in plain view in the front courtyard of one of the apartment buildings, somewhat less well-tended buildings. Even still, after living in north Oakland for 5 years, nothing I've seen here looks particularly scary.I've looked at the online crime maps for Santa Ana for the last year, and this area of Bush St. is a nice little pocket of tranquility. It's close to the freeway, close to the art galleries (Kalim is an artist), not far from the Artists Village, close to food, etc.Good idea to have a chat with the local cops, too, though.Rebeccah
Is this down by the amtrac tracks?
that's a nice area
it's been a few years since I've been there. Things are getting a little foggy
Have you been to Matterns Deli on East Chapman? (i'm now drooling)
Not quite. The railroad tracks are on the other side of the 5 freeway up there. That neighborhood has higher property values, but also higher crime statistics, interestingly. I was interested in a short sale there that has been on the market for almost 2 years (this one only a year), but the agent's notes in the MLS listing say the buyer has to deal with gettting the tenants to move out. Plus, it's out of my price range.Rebeccah
I'd say plan on going in at less than the 90% you are talking about. Sounds a little risky and also sounds like it may have been used as a crack house of sorts. See any 'tin' cans laying around that are cut in strange ways and look like they have been partially burned?
Re the fence, like said above most cities have height restrictions on fences. One easy way to get an idea would be to drive around the neighborhood and see what other people have. The neighbors would probably stop throwing the trash knowing the house was occupied, but I don't see how a different type of fence would deter it, since it's coming from the 2nd floor next door. They are probably just doing it because they think no one cares.
One little trick for checking out a neighborhood is to drive by when the school bus lets the kids off. That will give you a better idea of what kind of people live in the neighborhood.
Is this for a primary residence, rental, or what?
PS: here they have home inspectors who specialize in (certified in?) EFIS inspections, if that indeed is what it is.
no matter what others say, it is still a matter of what is affordabe for you. There are too many homes in forclosure where the prices are all across the board, mainly due to the origional loan amount. Some mortgage companies are trying to use the values from when the back took back the home. Others are using only the true sales amounts where they are sold to a private party. Condition of the homes and the amount of inventory each bank needs to unload/take off the books will affect each home price for sale.
If you feel comfortable there, make an offerr to the max you are willing to spend and no more, no less and don't second guess yourself at a later date. This is what my wife has done in the past and it really hurts a marriage. Funny how time can tarnish the fine details, out of convience/memory.
Plus, if you bid too low, the banks will drag their feet hoping for a higher bid. Then you miss out on this and maybe another one just waiting for acceptance on the first
good luck.
I have some friends down there that could recommended people for work you might need . Let me know
Edited 11/15/2009 11:12 am by migraine
i think if you get the person who can make the call from the bank down to actually look at the house as it sits and smells you might get a better deal?
the trash thing... if you just toss it back over the fence for a while the actions will stop...
good luck
p
I'm not an appraiser but I believe the value of the home is lowered by about 20% due to its location beside the apartment complex
my imagination doesn't have to go far to guess what all happens in the apartments next door. there will be parties,music and loud talking going on alot. and you are living next door with nothing to do but grin and bear it.
i'd go somewhere else.you may buy cheap,but when you sell it will be cheap.
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
There's no fence high enough to stop the flying garbage.
I think you are insane to even consider this.
Santa Ana has the highest concentration of illegals in southern Cal and will only get worse.
Sancho is in Orange, but it's not much of a difference.
You say it's freeway close, yeah it is, and the noise and dirt from that fwy never stops.
Don't do it, Joe H
I lived next door to an apartment house with college kids
I would hear car doors close at 3 AM
They would sleep all day
Lots of drugs and alcohol
One guy jumped through a ground floor window - like you would see on TV - broken glass etc.
I guess he thought he was a stunt man
He was lucky he didn't kill himself
I finally called the police
The officer came over and I told him I was tired of the noise, beer cans, and people parking in my driveway
He said "did you know we have a local ordinance pertaining to nuisance behaviors"
I said "no I didn't know anything about it"
He said "if we get three complaints we have the legal ability to evict the tenants and shut down the use of the property"
He said "landlords are putting a stop to this kind of tenant and we no longer waste a lot of our time dealing with these problems"
He told me to talk to the landlord and I did and he evicted some of the tenants immediately
But I vowed to never again live next door to an apartment complex - even a small one
Edited 11/15/2009 11:36 am by mrfixitusa
How 'bout some kind of trampoline type setup that would launch the tossed trash right back at 'em?
Buying a house, even at a bargain price, is a large and long-term commitment.
Location, location, location. This one is in a bad location and nothing you do can improve it. You cannot afford to be locked into a property for 20 years in a bad neighborhood such as you describe.
Find another property.
I'm seeing a lot of opinions about the decision I have not yet made, and not much in the way of practical suggestions about the question I have asked.I won't persuade anyone here that I should buy the house, but here is some background information anyway:
1. This is to live in, not a financial investment. If I were investing, I would be spending a lot more time than I am (and I'm spending a lot as it is) looking, searching for deeper discounts, etc. My husband and I have the skills and (I hope) the energy to do a fair amount of cosmetic work ourselves or with the help of day laborers, but I'm not a pro or even an accomplished DIY'er, and I have NO desire to be a landlord. My personal belief is that the current rise in home prices over the last couple of months is temporary, and that we will see additional declines when the Option ARMs recast (reset? I forget which term means what) next year. I'm looking for a level of discount that reflects some sweat equity and some cushioning against this anticipated fall, which means a distressed property. Wherever we buy, we will have to stick it out for at least 5 years before we consider selling.
2. Redfin's recent comps show a comparable sales price for this house of $383,148. My realtor's comps program comes up with $363,000. The approved short sale price is $318,000, plus $4000something or $5000something credit towards closing costs, AS IS, no repairs, no credits for repairs, etc., conventional financing with 20% down. So, this is a 12-18% discount, depending on how you do the figuring.
3. Santa Ana is our location of choice for two reasons: We need to be closer to Kalim's gallery in downtown Santa Ana (he's an artist and a partier), so he can get home under his own steam or at least so it's more convenient for me to come get him. Also, for the size of property we need, Santa Ana is the only area in southern California that has homes for sale in my price range that is within a reasonable commuting distance to my work.
4. Santa Ana is a city, and it's some 75+% Hispanic. Kalim is Hispanic. Hispanic is not a problem. Illegal rentals are the norm pretty much throughout the city. The neighborhood we lived in in Oakland for 5 years was much, much worse than this neighborhood. Madmadscientist will know what I'm talking about. My neighborhood wasn't quite as bad as his, but we were both in north Oakland.
5. We've been through this neighborhood driving and on foot, and plan to do more of it before making a final decision. After we make an offer, we have however long it takes for the lender to approve us as buyers (and this can take months on a short sale, even an approved short sale) + a 17-day contingency period before our decision is final. In the meanwhile, we will be looking at other houses, as well.
6. I'm not interested in restarting the short sale negotiation process from scratch on a home with 2 large outstanding loans. It takes long enough with an approved short sale, where I just step into a contract that someone else walked from. This house has been through at least two rounds of lender negotiations with two buyers, while prices were dropping. In light of recent price increases, temporary or not, and all of the bidding wars around here on attractively priced properties (by the local definition of "attractively priced"), I don't think I have anything to gain by trying to negotiate the bank down further on price.
7. The apartment building next door is not a highrise. It has 2 floors. There are 2 second-floor balconies that are potential problems.Meanwhile, I've researched Santa Ana's zoning ordinance on fences.
For residential properties, front yard fences or walls can be no more than 4' high and require a Planning Division permit if above 18" (in addition to a building permit, if required). That explains the 18" picket fence around this front yard and the next-door neighbor's. For all other fences or walls, the maximum height is 8' for residential (10' for other zones).However, they make a distinction between a fences/wall (a barrier which serves to enclose, divide, or protectan area, or is used to prevent intrusion), and an arbor (a decorative framework or structure formed of vines, branches, or lattice work). There are restrictions on arbors in front yards (10' tall, 6' wide, 3' deep, and only over walkways), but none on arbors in other areas.So, we might be able to strategically place some tall, decorative "arbors" (trellises) directly across from the balconies. The distance from the balconies to the lot line looks to be about the same as the distance from the house to the lot line, or about 10'. If the mere fact of the house being occupied turns out not to be sufficient to discourage throwing things (and it might well be), perhaps such a visual barrier will tip the balance even if it remains physically possible to do so.Still thinking about freestanding awnings, too, but the prefabricated ones look expensive, and I'm not sure if they are tall enough. I need to find out how tall the existing fence is. It might be 8'.Rebeccah
that 8 feet they give you is higher than most municipalities
I think you have it down - trellis w/ cross hatch lattice or the like & I'd take the opportunity to plant some bougainvilleathere are a lot of beautiful vines that like your southern cal climeI don't know if something like 16' chain link top rail is available but put two of those three feet in ground in front of your new & improved 8' high fence and use some u bolts on your side of the pipe to affix 1X3" cedar and go from there
13' high for 5', then back down to 8', another 5' trellis and your neighbors will be planting vines & filling pots on their balconies
I like that.
So, with the U bolts you just mean the U goes around the rail, and the nuts cinch down tight enough on the wood that it doesn't slip down?
And how do I dig the narrow, 3' deep holes to set the rails in? I'd have to break the concrete first, and hope (or find out whom to call to check) there are no underground utilities there. It looks like the gas shutoff may be on that side of the house, though I didn't find the meter anywhere. Electrical service is on the other side of the house, hidden behind a bush-sized palm tree (volunteer?) that will need to be removed. Never did find the water main shutoff.
I love bouganvilleas. I've never grown them, though.
Rebeccah
yes you have it on the U bolts
maybe I'm mistaken but i think most communities have utility locator services - ours comes out for free
warning they are not right on w/ there findings - they are closeso we are on same page - this hopefully 16' chain link toprail is now used as post
is concrete an issue along property line of fence / is it a patio pad/sidewalk or a deeper "wall" like structure
The whole back and side yards are paved over (irregularly, but not as bad as our house in Oakland) with concrete. The side "yard" is just the 10' strip from the side of the house to the fence. It's hard to see what exactly the condition is of the concrete, as there's fair amount of junk overlying it. I can't even say with 100% certainty whether or not it extends all the way to the fence, or is contiguous with any concrete on the other side of the fence.There's really just too much stuff to take in at one time when one is touring a property for the first time. And I didn't take enough pictures.BTW, here are a shot of the side yard and of the hole in the fence . It could very well be that the previous occupants of the outbuildings were the culprits here, rather than the neighboring apartment dwellers.RebeccahI don't know why I can't embed images any more. I was never able to do it the copy-and-paste-the-image-way, always had to edit the html img tag. Probably because I use the text editor, not the fancy one. But now, the stupid editor keeps on deleting some or all of the image URL when I'm in HTML view.Edited 11/16/2009 1:54 am by Rebeccah <!-- REBECCAH35 -->Edited 11/16/2009 1:55 am by Rebeccah <!-- REBECCAH35 -->Edited 11/16/2009 1:57 am by Rebeccah <!-- REBECCAH35 -->Edited 11/16/2009 2:01 am by Rebeccah <!-- REBECCAH35 -->Edited 11/16/2009 2:03 am by Rebeccah <!-- REBECCAH35 -->Edited 11/16/2009 2:03 am by Rebeccah <!-- REBECCAH35 -->
Edited 11/16/2009 2:07 am by Rebeccah
Just a WAG, but with the container there I'd bet that junk came from the original HO and not the Apts.
What's in the container?
Haz Mat?
Dead bodies?
More junk?
cats?
How are you going to get the container out? Are are you going to use it?
How many coats of paint going on the house?
only in cal can you spend a 1/4 of a mil and get a container that someone lived in thrown in free.....
as far as how many coats,i'd go buy paint somewhere they "guarantee" one coat coverage.
that would teach em about false advertising.
my guess is 4 coats with a airless.40 gals.
once you get rid of the school bus yellow,the neighbors might quit trying to bury it in trash.the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
Aww, you don't like International Orange? :-)Anyway, this tangentially gets me onto the next topic. I don't know whether or not the exterior finish is real stucco vs EIFS (I suspect the latter), but that orange trim is, in some places, styrofoam, and in others, something-over-chicken-wire. Obviously, in the areas where it is damaged, we can't just sand and paint. What's the best way to repair it?Rebeccah
The container contains... junk. There are some crappy cabinets mounted on the wall, and there's a counter in there somewhere, with at least one empty plate of food sitting on it, along with the chair someone probably sat on while emptying said plate of food. And junk. Not filth, like the garage, but junk.As for what to do with the container, we would use it for storage. Not for collecting garbage. So, it would still contain junk, but hopefully neatly organized junk. :-)
Edited 11/18/2009 1:47 am by Rebeccah
If you end up buying the place and decide you don't want the container, those things actually are in demand and sell for pretty good $$$$. Here, if I was in that situation I'd put it in craigs list for $1500 and plan on getting at least $1000 (buyer handles removal). That's in NC dollars...
those container here sell for 2500 small 5000 large
Container stays.BTW, I did make an offer to replace the buyer that got cold feet, and the seller has accepted my offer. Now we wait for the shorted bank to approve me as a replacement buyer before I start shelling out any money. The realtors want me to open escrow right away, on the basis that my approval is a formality, but one that could take 2-3 weeks to accomplish, and meanwhile they are afraid the bank will foreclose before we can close.Yet, the "Realist" listing that my realtor sent me before I decided to make the offer did not show the home to be in foreclosure (there were other homes that showed NODs from March and April, with auctions scheduled for July, September, etc and still not REO as of November), so I'm not sure that this concern is genuine. I think they're worried I might get cold feet, too, and so they want skin in the game as early as possible. Plus, the short sale approval is only good until Dec 28, so the seller has a legitimate worry that if I take too long to decide that I don't want the house after all (after starting my inspections), they will have to start all over again from scratch.I feel for them, but I feel for me more, as I can't afford to go around inspecting homes I'm interested in without assurance that my offer is accepted. My offer says escrow opens after the lender approves me as a buyer, and the seller signed it. It's in his interest to get the bank to approve me as a buyer ASAP.Meanwhile, I'm getting inspectors lined up. Can anyone recommend someone in Orange County? I need a general home inspection, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, termite, and roof, in that order (unless the general home inspection turns up something unexpected).Rebeccah
Thats a nice office chair.
If you haven't yet, you need to go get yourselves pre-qualified for a loan. Regardless of where you end up buying.
Done already, thanks.Rebeccah
yea that would be a no brainer for me!
You know the area(like I). What it is there. The people in that area can be gems, or not.
Only thing.........can your marriage take it? My last hurrah almost cost me a divorce(I filed, but I think we'll make it)
Anything I can do to help, I would/will. Going down there 1st Nov for grandson's 1st birthday!!!!!!!!
Good response. You are absolutely right about location.
It's your home for cry'n out loud.
If you don't have peace in your home you are miserable.
Will Rogers