In 2003 I had a 18 x 24′ addition put on my house. In this area of New Jersey they put up cinderblock foundation walls and skim coat the outside of the walls with cement to make it smooth. They then waterproof the outside below the ground. My question is about the portion of the foundation between the ground and the sheathing, every old home in the neighborhood (including mine,old portion that is) has this area of cement painted. Is this necessary or a good idea? Seems to me why paint something if it’s going to add to the maintenance list of future work when it starts peeling and what not. Or is it actually something that protects the masonry from water intrusion and potential damage from the freeze thaw cycle? Any thoughts on this before I spend valuable time wielding a roller and brush? And if your for painting it, What type of paint do you believe would be superior? I’ve got a brochure for a BEHR elastomeric masonry,stucco and brick paint. It’s supposed to bridge hairline cracks and remain breathable.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Mike Guertin explains which areas of a deck you need to pay attention to in order to deal with drainage.
Featured Video
Related Stories
-
Podcast 551: Power Tool Batteries, Building as a Third Career, and High DIY -
Podcast 551: Members-only Aftershow—Badly-Built Homes -
Podcast 550: PRO TALK With Carpentry Program Instructor Sandy Thistle and Graduate David Abreu -
Podcast 549: Energy Upgrades, Chimney Inspections, and Questions About a Home You Might Buy
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Replies
A good coat of paint will act as a water stop. Not as good as real waterproofing material, but a decent first line of defense. I don't like anything from Behr, but you do need something designed for masonry/stucco.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I also am leery of BEHR products, I usually use Benjamin moore but Consumer Reports keeps grading Behr excellent or as a best buy and Benjamin Moore keeps scoring mid pack? I certainly believe in buying the best quality because pennywise and dollar foolish is not a good way to live. I just want a material I never have to do over again--ever, is that to much too ask? LOL
Consumer reports does not know what they are talking about many times. Pick something you know a lot about, and see how your opinion compares with theirs."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I've seen it both ways. IMO, it's purely aesthetic. Sure, a layer of paint might offer a modicum of moisture resistance, but it definitely isn't a necessity.
Ordinary latex will offer some protection, but Drylok can help a lot in keeping moisture out of the wall. If you don't like the colors it comes in you can paint over it in latex.
Never use oil based paint on concrete block or you will be dealing with peeling.
What do you think of the oil based Drylock vs the latex based Drylock?
When I sold my parent's house it had a damp (not wet) basement. I had a painter (friend of mine) paint the inside of the block walls with Drylock oil based, I choose the oil because I thought it would be more effective. Man - the odor... I really felt sorry for that painter... It did seem to wrok well though.
Also I have to wonder if Drylock, or similar would help the integrity of a parge coat. I've see a lot of them with cracks in them...
Matt I have used latex based drylock on a basement wall that was not leaking water but would get salts leaching through it has held up just fine. Thick stuff get them to shake it real well. I didn't even know there was an oil version.Wallyo
Per the instructions on Dryloc and similar paints, it can only be used on cementious products with no previous coating. I have no idea how a parge coat would be counted, though.
Remember Mary Dyer, a Christian Martyr (Thank you, Puritans) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_DyerMay your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
parge is a cement based product....
Edited 5/14/2008 9:53 pm ET by Matt
>>parge is a cement based product....
YEah, but does it have the surface porosity drylok type products seem to need to adhere sufficiently?
Remember Mary Dyer, a Christian Martyr (Thank you, Puritans) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_DyerMay your whole life become a response to the truth that you've always been loved, you are loved and you always will be loved" Rob Bell, Nooma, "Bullhorn"
Consumer Reports tested both and said they worked equally well, if I recall. They recommended the latex because it didn't have the fumes of oil based and worked equally well. They found that both Dryloks were considerably better than any of the other tested brands.
Why add maintenance to something? Dry lock or paint is not going to do much to stop a leak above grade below grade is where leaks happen. Better to apply drylock on the inside as an added measure to prevent leaks. But then again it's not leaking now is it?
So painting the exterior above grade is just for looks in my opinion.
Wallyo
Actually the interior is already done with Dryloc. Wonder if doing both sides is a no-no? Where would moisture go?
Behr used to have a concrete stain not a paint I wonder if something like that is less maintance then a paint. I never used it went back for it once because of a project I had that I thought it would be perfect for HD no longer had it. Latex paint is just a film it does not soak into concrete as some have suggested concrete stain does.
As a Jesery boy my self I don't Know how many times I painted the exposed foundation of my parents house sat there with a wire brush to get as much peeling paint off before the new went on. I would always think why do people paint foundations? Oh by the way painting the exposed foundation never stopped water from seeping in that came from ground water after 2" of rain per hour for 3 hours. Or the sewer line backing up because the street was a river and the water was up to the second step of the front porch. But that is what sump pumps are for.
My sister in Bloomfield had a little seepage in her basement till my dad painted the interior wall with drylok. Then it stoped that was ten plus years ago. In Idaho hardly no one paints their foundations my neighbor painted his 6" tall. yes 6 inches, foundation everyone thought he was nuts.
By the way I like Behr paint it is the only one I use.
Wallyo
Latex paint WILL soak into the concrete if you have the concrete damp. This is why you need about 3 times as much paint as for any other surface. Done right it won't peel.Oil paint, or the other hand, is quite likely to peel after a few years.Latex paint won't substantially reduce water infiltration, but then water infiltration above soil level isn't usually a problem, except maybe in Seattle.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
DanI have to agree on the Seattle part, and those slugs how can you guys live there.Never heard of the damping trick ( but in Seattle everything is damp so no problem).But if you do dampen first, not that it matters, but you are probably voiding every paint warranty that there is. Most call for a dry clean surface, though Behr has a deck stain that you can apply when the wood is damp but no rain expected for 24 hours, something to look into for use in Seattle since everything is always damp. All kidding aside I do like Seattle.If you dampen the concrete/block first isn't the paint acting more like a Stain? Whether it peels or not it still will need repainting at some point fading, staining, chipping, so my opinion still is why bother. Which brings on my biggest peeve why do people paint brick? I hate that!Wallyo
Actually I asked that question at the paint store years ago, the man behind the counter said it has no impact on warrenty.
My own house (also in NJ) has some painted areas and some unpainted. The areas I painted were purely for aesthetic reasons. I can't think of any other reasons to do it.
I used a top quality 100% acrylic latex without primer and a very stiff brush to work it in. It's holding up fine, but I wouldn't add potential maintenance if the parge coat doesn't bother you.
In Southern Calif. we use colored stucco. It allows moisture to pass thru without popping off.
It is being used less because of improper installation and knowledge. If it does peel off, its because they did not wash splashed on dirt before applying. Or, they painted over it. Moisture gets behind the paint and makes it peel.
Aesthetics. But a good paint job with latex paint won't peel. The paint soaks into the concrete and forms a very tight bond.
personal preference
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
ditto on what Piffin said.
I have painted a lot of foundations, wet the blocks, paint with any, includeing the cheapest, it last a very long time!
Paint is a surface that you'll have to maintain ... but if you do paint:
No one mentioned primer! Use one of the alkali primers (like Sherwin Williams Loxon - an amazing product) and then topcoat with latex.
The primer (made for cementitious surfaces) is the key.
Jeff
sorry to tell you, no primer is necessary.
In the Beginning Surface preparation is key to a quality paint job on masonry surfaces. Start by using a wire brush, power brush or power washer to remove all dirt, unbound sand, efflorescence (a salty calcium deposit), chalk or loose paint. If using a power washer, be sure not to force excess water into mortar joints or other areas. If the surface has mildew or mold, first treat it with a solution of one part household chlorine bleach to three parts water. Be sure to protect yourself during this process by wearing goggles, gloves and a dust mask.
Once the surface has been cleaned, thoroughly rinse it with clean water to eliminate any residual dust or particles.
Before applying a primer or paint, you may want to dampen the masonry. Pre-dampening is helpful if conditions are such that the latex coating would otherwise dry very quickly, resulting in poor film formation. This tends to occur when painting a porous surface that draws water from the paint, a surface that has been heated by the sun or is in direct sunshine, or in very dry or warm breezy weather.
If the masonry has never been painted, it may be extremely porous, especially if it has been exposed to the weather for years. Use a latex masonry primer or sealer to make the surface less absorbent. This will provide a smoother, more uniform, finished paint job. A primer or sealer is especially helpful if the surface has powdery "chalk" that cannot all be removed, or has a tendency to produce efflorescence. (Efflorescence typically results from water that intrudes behind the masonry - try to identify the source and eliminate it if at all possible.) Rough surfaces, such as cinder block, can be smoothed out by applying a latex block filler before painting.
Once the surface preparation is complete, finish the job with a top quality 100 percent acrylic latex exterior paint. These paints are formulated for use on masonry as well as other building materials, and typically provide an excellent appearance for up to 10 years or more over properly prepared surfaces.
Special Rules for Fresh Stucco Stucco is a challenging surface to paint. One of its most troublesome characteristics is its initial alkalinity. With stucco that is less than a year old, its high alkaline content can "burn" the binder of an ordinary latex paint. This causes the color to fade, or even the paint to crack and peel. But by following the proper surface preparation techniques, and using only a top quality paint, you can achieve good results.
Before beginning any surface preparation, allow fresh stucco to "cure" for at least four weeks. This allows time for shrinkage and reduction in moisture content and surface alkalinity. To help prevent efflorescence from forming, hose down the stucco once or twice a week during the waiting period.
When the stucco is ready for painting, first apply a masonry sealer, such as a latex block filler or an alkali-resistant primer recommended for masonry surfaces. This will help keep paint from absorbing unevenly into stucco's porous surface. It helps the finished paint job look smooth and uniform, and reduces chance of fading. Finally, choose a top quality 100 percent acrylic latex exterior paint for best results.
When painting stucco that is more than a year old, first prepare the surface by removing any traces of efflorescence with a scraper or wire brush. Stubborn efflorescence can be removed with a 6 to 10 percent muriatic acid solution, followed by a thorough rinsing. Then proceed by applying a top quality 100 percent acrylic latex paint. Use a masonry primer if the surface is especially porous.
Painting Concrete and Masonry Surfaces
By Brian SimkinsUse a fresh coat of paint to bring new life to an old basement, an exterior masonry wall, or even a garage floor. When properly prepared, the appearance of a masonry surface can be greatly improved with paint.What you'll need:
Power Washer: If you are painting an exterior masonry surface, a power washer is the easiest way to remove any dirt, mold or old paint.
Brush: You may need a paint brush to do detail work around windows and trim if you are working on the outside of your home. You will also need a brush if you are cutting in along the walls when painting a concrete floor.
Roller: You will use a roller to do the bulk of the painting. Make sure you read the manufacturer's recommendations as to what size nap to use. You will also probably want to buy at least two covers, as the primer will most likely ruin the first cover.
Primer/Sealer: Most masonry surfaces will need to be primed or sealed before you apply paint. We'll help you decided what you need below.
View Image USA -> For Contractors -> Products & Specifications -> Exterior Products -> Exterior Primers -> Moore's¯ High Build Acrylic Masonry Primer 068
Moore's¯ High Build Acrylic Masonry Primer 068
E-mail to a Friend Add To Favorites
Print
Product Description View Image
Features View Image
Colors Available View Image
Gloss View Image
Clean Up View Image
Resin Type View Image
View Image
Product DescriptionA 100% acrylic latex sealer for sealing new and previously painted masonry surfaces prior to applying a finish coat. Bonds and seals to provide a sound undercoat as part of a complete waterproofing system using Moorlastic¯ Elastomeric Waterproof Coatings (055, 056, 060). Ideal for use under Moorcraft Super Spec¯ Exterior Texture Finishes (186, 187, 188) for the topcoat.
Features
Reduces the porosity of masonry surfaces
Provides excellent surface adhesion
High alkali resistant-up to pH 13
View Image USA -> For Contractors -> Products & Specifications -> Exterior Products -> Exterior Primers -> Moore's¯ High Build Acrylic Masonry Primer 068
Moore's¯ High Build Acrylic Masonry Primer 068
E-mail to a Friend Add To Favorites
Print
Product Description View Image
Features View Image
Colors Available View Image
Gloss View Image
Clean Up View Image
Resin Type View Image
View Image
Product DescriptionA 100% acrylic latex sealer for sealing new and previously painted masonry surfaces prior to applying a finish coat. Bonds and seals to provide a sound undercoat as part of a complete waterproofing system using Moorlastic¯ Elastomeric Waterproof Coatings (055, 056, 060). Ideal for use under Moorcraft Super Spec¯ Exterior Texture Finishes (186, 187, 188) for the topcoat.
Features
Reduces the porosity of masonry surfaces
Provides excellent surface adhesion
High alkali resistant-up to pH 13
I'm speaking from experience! I have a lot of reservations about company propaganda!