Looking out the back window of the house, I have a big field. In the middle of the field is an old house – probably goes back to 1850 plus or minus. I’ve been looking at it and trying to decide whether to save it or not.
It’s built on piers. They are okay. There is some sagging and the inside floor on the first floor are wide boards (5″ or so) and although weatherbeaten should clean up nice. Windows are gone. Doors are gone. Siding needs pretty much total replacement. But it has a nice fireplace and some nice beadboard walls and ceilings. It’s two story, one room up, one down. Size is about 15’x17′.
Something tells me to save it. Am I nuts?
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations – New Construction – Rentals
Replies
Don, ....all depends on time and money...right?
It would, for me, be a great place for a small retreat. You know a library, a small workshop. I guess what they call today a "man cave".
Just think of a nice quiet reading room, good tunes and a beverage. If you're into crafts a small studio or such upstairs.
Just ramblin'......keep us posted.
bum
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Had a roofer over today. He's going to put together a quote for reroofing with metal.
Hey, maybe a FEST is in order. Bring Seeyou and Sphere. One could do the roof, the other could do the windows... get DW to clean up the fireplace bricks...I need to be thinking about this. :-)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Well, you asked to be kept informed. I've decided to save it. As I told Kivi a little earlier, I think it's doable and worthwhile to save a small piece of history. Need to start putting a schedule together so I can put some time into the thing. Otherwise it'll be August and I'll be still talking about it. :-)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Thanks for taking time to reply.
I'm following the thread and glad to see you'll be saving the place. I'm curious as to why the two story small footprint as opposed to a single level. Is this common in the area? Maybe roofers charged too much back then. ;0)
Easy for those of us not directly involved or nearby to offer suggestions as to how or what you should do. A photo thread showing restoration as you find and repair would be appreciated if you have the time and inclination., and certainly any history would be interesting.
Good luck & we'll be watching.
Jim...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
If you install vinyl siding, you can run it right over all the windows and save a bunch of money on glass.
Another thought is to light it up and the only thing left will be a nice barbecue.
It's interesting but it would be crazy to spend so much time and money trying to save the $1000 worth of salvagable materials in that thing. It obviously would be a labor of love.
I'd spend the time and money building me a new barn.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
let the fire dept have it..two ways to screw up concrete 1) concrete driver 2) concrete finisher
Didn't you redo some old school building up north? I know you don't like old structures, but figured you might have learned to appreciate the history more.
As far as a barn, that's another story. Not ready for it yet.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I'm remodeling an old one in Austin right now. I've relearned why it's better to scrape them LOL!What do you see when you look at that old frame that appeals to you: the challenge of bringing it back, or is there something of value there? If theres something there that appeals to you, I'd suggest that you rebuild it. You've already said that there is no millwork or siding. That leaves some old studs. The roof is probably a few more old framing members, sagging. The frame lumber in that is probably old, brittle and probably needs a lot of work to cover on both sides. You mentioned some bead board and that might have some value. I didn't do the old school because the deteroriation of MI's economy made the thing too speculative. Investors aren't too interested in speculative deals. I'm glad I didn't do anything there because the climate was bad in general but the state has steadily got worse. That particular building was worth saving because the bones was solid concrete and it made a great pallette. It also had a very significant value because the bones were so massive and only needed a new interior and facade. It was/is a good idea to save because it makes sense financially. Your choice to save the structure for your own pleasure based on your own emotions is certainly valid. Financially, you are saving about $1000 worth of lumber and you'll need $3000 of labor to do that. It's still your choice and like anything else, if that's what you want, it makes sense to do it. I myself would scrape it and rebuild it to the same dimensions if I wanted something like that. It would be significantly faster and easier. I'd rebuild around the chimney if it was solid and didn't need much tuckpointing and it burned well. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My wife thinks I'm a beauty, so anything is possible. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
don..... i like it
we remodeled a story & a half 16'x20' beach house a couple years ago
put a 12x12 2-story addition on to make it a t-shape
was a lot of fun....
"It was fun..."
But you were getting paid to do it. :-)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I'll take it !!!How soon can you have it moved to my back yard ?
Yeah, it may be cold, but at least it's a wet cold !
You like it? I'll make you a deal you can't refuse.
You can have it - but you need to come pick it up - before I rebuild it. Better hurry up.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Might be a nice place for immigrants if you plan on workin that field.
Gord
Sounds as though you've made up your mind?...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
I can't say my mind is made up for 100% sure. But my insides keep telling me to go for it - 75% anyway. It would be an accomplishment if I could bring it back.
Besides, I'm suposed to be retiring. I just do this for fun. If it's not fun, why do it? This one would be fun - well, maybe once I got through the grit and dust.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New construction - Rentals
About damn time you got some pics of your place. I've only been asking for like 6 freakin' months.(-:What exactly is there to save?The foundation is non existent. No electrical or HVAC to save. No evterior siding or inside finishes worth saving. No windows.The framing might be sort of O.K. in places. But a lot of it is going to be crooked as hell and need work. The floor is likely a mess.So what is there that's worth saving?.Did you see the quote I've put on BT once or twice from my Uncle? He once told me:"Every asset is also a liability"Every vehicle, every building, every posession. They cost money to keep and maintain. That house would also be a liability to you. You'd have to maintain it, and pay the utilities. That's definitely something to consider..So you asked for opinions - Now you have mine. And it's worth every penny you paid for it.
Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.
Don't hold back, buddy. Tell me how you REALLY feel !!!
As far as the pictures, you've been asking way longer than 6 months. I'm afraid if I send you pictures, you'll find out where I live, get out the axe and I'm a goner.
As far as your opinion, well, it looks like maybe we'll have to disagree - again. :-)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Hey, I always have given you straight answers when you asked a question. You would expect no less of me, right ???
Sex takes up the least amount of time and causes the most amount of trouble.
Well, since I don't expect much from you, I'm rarely disappointed. :-(
As far as your original conclusion that there wasn't anything to save, I think you are wrong. I love the look of the interior on the first floor - just need to imagine it without the mud daubers and the layers of newsprint that served as insulation. I'll try to get better interior shots tomorrow. Doors and windows don't count because they aren't there. Floorboards are some nice boards, just bent in too many directions at once. This place will probably become my hideout.
Aren't you a member of the local historical society?
Don
"...since I don't expect much from you, I'm rarely disappointed."
Dang, that was harsh. You're off my Christmas card list now.
"Aren't you a member of the local historical society?"
Yup. But that doesn't mean I think that EVERYTHING needs to be saved...
Q: Why are New Yorkers always depressed?
A: The light at the end of their tunnel is New Jersey.
You're just grumpy 'cause there's no trusses in Don's house. LOL
Patina can be quite beautiful in the eye of the right beholder.
Jer,
I too love patina.. My MG and Jaguar have a lovely patina from decades of racing but they are right on the verge of looking shabby rather than showing a lovely aged patina..
That house has past the point where patina is sweet and diserable.. it is to the point of being ramshackle..
Adding doors and windows in would heighten the shabby look rather than enhance it.. That much of a contrast between old and new would.. It's not a matter of taste or preferance but an honest analitical judgement.
OH you could paint the doors/windows to fool the eye but upon close examination that would be like woodgraining a Corvette. Just tacky..
Yeah, like I said, it makes me tired just looking at it.
Snork. You saw what I "Saved" , LMAO.
No, burn it now, before the thought gets any deeper in your obviously addled mind :)
I am joking about the mind, but not the burn,,,really, burn it..now.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
When I opened the first pic I thought "Looks better than what Duane started with"
The roof lacks the multiple doghouse look, might be an easier fix.
Joe H
Funny thing is, that part of the roof is fine..it was the 10 YO ADDITION that went to hell.
Hey, BTW..remember that "boston ridge" I made to cover the ends of the rafters from the addition? ( Gotta find the pics..I will) I wanna rip that off, it ain't gonna work the way I want..
Got any Ideers? Gotta close off the ends of the 2x6 rafters that sit ON TOP of the main house ridge roll.
Here it is
View ImageSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I never saw what you did to that, but it sure is a mess.
What the hell was the guy thinking?
Joe H
I built the chimney chase to wrap in fake stone, and a looooong cupola across the ridge. Just to keep the heat in and the critters out.
Now I gotta make a plan for the finished look..the rafters are level, the house is not..nothing lines out nice no matter what I do.
Thinking just metal over the gap, and call it good, but that sounds so hack.
The Chimney has to stay..all else is up for design ideas.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Whatever you do it'll be an improvement.
I think I've seen my last fixer, one more from scratch and I'm done.
Maybe..........
Joe H
Burn it now? I thought you appreciated history too?
What do you get a square to do metal roofing (5V)? Shoot me an e-mail. You can do me some windows for the new kitchen too.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
You are just over the ridge right? Near Dedubya?
I'l get up with ya, as soon as it settles a tad here..OK?
Or YOU pester me, and remind me, I am TOTALLY covered up for the next few as far as I can see's.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Man o man my ears have been burning something fierce,, I can see why now , I like houses like that , There are a few up in Botetourt co. that were twins to that one , well use to be anyway before the Japenese factory managers moved in and bulldozed them and built some golf courses.
Fact of it is, I was looking at an old house today that has fallen in from neglect, the place has always fasinated me, don't know why ,ever since I was a young boy --"first and last time "I bit into a unripe persimmon . was on that old houses porch The big simmon tree is still there, but the house and old porch has caved in , I don't know but I thought I could hear my granddaddy and some of my great uncles still laughing at a little spitting tow headed youngun before he crawled up into their laps.. old houses are important to a few I reckon.....
I'm over the ridge all right. About 3+ hours east of DW (at less than rocket speeds). (My DW says it was about 4.)
Pester you? Not a problem. I've wanted to meet you in person for the longest time. Besides, I want to put a sunroom full of windows on the east side of the house and maybe you could show me some tricks to building 'em.
As far as the original thought of getting the matches out, I am afraid it's too late for that. There was a nice old building out back which I lost to a large oak tree. I would like to save something.
Now, 'fess up. Would you do yours all over again? Or, would you leave it for somebody else? (I know you wouldn't get the diesel fuel and firestarters.)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Actually the lady that sold to us had plenty of offers, but each and everyone wanted the torch down approach, I was the only one willing to keep it standing, thus finishing her late husband and her dreams..hence the good deal we got on it.
She was here back around xmas and was weepy happy with what we have gotten done thus far..she is a real sweet lady..and she can come and visit anytime, the house is always open.
Yup,I could make a trek east when the chance of major cold has passed, I don't travel for long or far in the winter, someone has to keep the homefires burning, literally the woodstove..LOL
Gotta run, I am late..I'll emil ya tonite.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
It's nearly 11 pm. You got an hour until you e-mail me tomorrow.
Look forward to it.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals - Crazy Projects
I just did. it bounced back
Shoot one at me.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
That's not as ugly as the one I bought in the hamlet near here. But mine had an old guy living there until a year before I bought it. Similar size, but mine had 2 fireplaces, both terminated inside the attic when the last asphalt roof was installed. Never any plumbing.
First thing I did was pull a demolition permit. The whole hamlet was headed for historic designation. And then the first rule is: preserve. My place was singled out as very important. Why? Very few 100+ yr old houses exist here that are so small.
Wonder why that is...
I sold the property to a guy who talked me into building him a house like mine, further up the hill. Now that old POS is his problem. Demolition permit expired and he's got less than a snowball in hell's chance of getting another. That house remains a liability, no asset.
You like signing up for more maintenance?
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Tom, I don't like the maintenance. It's a PITA for me like everybody else. I just grew up using real wood and real materials. They equate to maintenance. OTOH, the roofer that was here offered me a choice of factory prepainted roof or one that needssite painting, and I may go with the factory painted one.
That is, if I decide to do this of course... :-)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Looks like a dandy little place. Amazing how long those standing seam roofs hold up. Like someone said though it all depends on the dollars and sense and even if you could do it, it would still be a labor of love and not one of investment. I get tired just looking at those picts.
I had a very similar thing a number of years ago. It was a turn of the century cottage that needed mucho work. It was only about 800 sf. I renovated and even restored all the gingerbread on the outside. My MIL lived there with us in the big house for 12 years.
"Like someone said though it all depends on the dollars and sense.."
Was that "sense" a Fruedian slip, or are you trying to tell me something? I've done some Victorian stuff. This is much simpler. (Sure it is.)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
"Was that "sense" a Fruedian slip, or are you trying to tell me something?"I slip those in once in a while when I see an opening. The writer in me rolls his eyes and says 'grow up'....right
You are frick'in nuts!!!!! I think that in itself requires you to save it. My gut and heart would say to save it, but would you have a use for it?
Structurally, how is it? Would you have to do a lot of work to make it sound? At at 15 x 17 its not that big, so your not looking at that much material ( thats all relativlely speaking I suppose). Could make or use salvaged windows and doors. Be a funky little place.
This is all coming from a guy who has a hard time staying on the road when he drives by an old run down place ( to busy looking at it).
Well, you at least answered the question about whether I was nuts. I wasn't sure.
Like you, my heart says save it. I don't know exactly why. Maybe I had a relative that lived there 150 years ago. (Unlikely, since my family was 500 miles away.) I keep thinking about the people that did live there. Real families with real lives. Lived in 2 rooms. There was also a porch on one side, I'd put it back.
What would I do with it? Not sure. Just know that I tried to save it. I'm already thinking of leaving the house itself (main house) to a preservation group in my Will. So, why not leave something else to go with it? There aren't many around, less every year.
Besides, I've never done one like this...
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Going back to the reincarnation thread from the Tavern a week ago---- maybe you lived there 150 years ago !!
My vote is save-- once it's gone you'll regret it.
my heart says save it. I don't know exactly why.
DonK has just entered the 'cool people on Breaktime' list.
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Gimme a hell yes!
I'll even donate some under the floor snakes.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
How long you think before Don finds an old house to salvage to get his wood siding pieces from?
Peach full,easy feelin'.
I give him two weeks.
Few months back my farmer dude up the road showed me a parts house , way back in the woods here..kinda same stlye as my place, but way worse shape..but you bet I was eyeballin the doors and trim!
He says I can have anything I want, but gettin to it is rough..no road. Used to be a road, but since the Civil War it has been growing over, can't hardly even know a house is back there.
Be bettin it's haunted to bootSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
man, snap some pics if you can.
Same era too huh. You know you have to go do some R&R there some time. If not for the salvage just for the privilege of doing it.
be privileged
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Ya, I'll be sloggin back in there sometime soon, wished I had a phone or camera the first trip back there. Some cool old unidentifiable farm implements with trees growing out of the parts..or better described, Trees with farm parts stuck in them.
It had some detail on the caved in porch like my dormers, but more ornate trim details,maybe mine had it and its gone, cuz NO body added anything to that place recently ( like the last 100 yrs) that would have been to dress it up.
2 miles of hard walking from my front door..like I said,no road.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Ah, the power of Hicksville. Could have been built from the same builder.
I'd be tempted to just replace the missing siding, tighten it up and oil it with a transparent to keep the natural weathered look.
Kind of like an old post on here, I believe, from way back where the owners couldn't change a thing on the exterior of an old mining community because of local codes guarding historical significance so they doo-wopped on the place keeping the original stuff and strengthening what remained.
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Is that old lathe around the fireplace?
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Nope that is the "paneling" like my place had..3/8ths Poplar beaded board..small T&G with center bead.
I just got off the phone with Don..he refers to it as wainscot, but I would call it paneling..my place was covered in it..the Piano room.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Back up "north" they called that stuff "wainscoting". I call it beadboard, after all, I's a highly trained and edumacated perfesional.
Got a little better picture of the north side where the chimney is. I need to resize it, then can add it.
I had to laugh about the idea of finding one to scavenge wood from. I need another house like an octopus needs a necktie. But,,, I took a ride around the perimeter of part of the property (the field in the picture) and my neighbor has almost the same house in the woods right next to mine. It's in about the same condition too, maybe worse!!
Don K.
EJG Hhomes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
"Back up north" theys wrong..LOL
It is beadboard, but applied as paneling it is not wainscot, clear enuf?
Yeah, get that other house for spare parts..you got nuthing else to do next week.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
My bad, it was on the cieling and behind the cedar they covered it with...like such.
View Image
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Trust me Rez - there isn't enough there to oil and still keep the water out. I've walked around it, and around it, and the siding is shot. (Almost looks like there were two different sidings.) That doesn't really bother me because once I start pulling the siding, I can cut the openings for the interior electric boxes without too much trouble.
I'll insulate it and put plywood on first before I do the vinyl. :-)
I told Sphere I finally got upstairs today. A little nervous because I wasn't sure how good the stairs were, or the flooring. Found that the second floor has a fireplace about the same as the first floor. Has the same "beadboard" on the walls and the ceiling. And, I found some interesting junk including a camshaft and radiator from an old vehicle - probably worth a small fortune if I knew what they came from. Camera refused to cooperate so I couldn't take any pictures. Maybe it was the ghost? It worked fine once I went downstairs and outside ... ???
Edited 2/9/2008 9:37 pm ET by DonK
That beadboard panel sounds promising for significant jazz in the old place as well as the two fireplaces.
Might want to check out that other building for the beadboard. Sounds like you might need it.
Pics, ghostly images would be cool too.
be a darting shadow.
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Sphere,
You know, after reading your post, I remembered looking at the trim in this place. It was definitely Victorian, not well done 'cause it had been pieced around every window and door, but it had round corner blocks too. Your estimate of the age as being after 1880 was probably closer to the truth than mine. I was comparing it to the main house which I estimated at 1880-1890. Since the back house was so much smaller and simpler, I thought it was really earlier. Maybe not. Maybe it was built for/by people that just didn't have any money like slaves or tenant farmers.
Oh well, it's still pretty cool.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Dunno, most slave shacks I have run across were single story, but then again,,anything goes sometimes.
That mantle looks to be like what was here in my place, wanna bet it is walnut?
Peel it off the wall and check the saw marks, or the handplane tracks..we'll dial it in yet.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I'd take careful measurements of the existing structure, salvage whatever is salvageable, and burn the rest. Then rebuild on a new foundation and make it a nice shop or a rental or leave the inside open and put up a basketball hoop.
On my dad's land is a similar age and condition structure, where he keeps his 1939 tractor. It's beautiful in a quirky way, like yours, but not enough left of it to restore.
Don,I live in NJ, up here I see old buildings torn down too often, beautiful barns among them. I think it's a tragedy that we don't put more value on our history and where we came from. This is done in the name of progress and economy. Certainly it would cost more to restore it than it is financially worth to save it, but once it is gone, it's gone forever. My vote is save it.
you better keep that or I wont talk to you again. old building like that are beautiful, and not very common.
"It is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer: it feels so good when you stop"
A quick glance says that to fix it, you'd need to remove, repair, replace virtually every piece anyway ... so I vote to tear it down and start over.
That roof looks ... wrong. I think someone has already tried fixing the place up. Be wary of any surprises they left you.
You made no mention of utilities.
Probably the most important thing to ask is: what will it be used for when it's finished?
Edited 2/7/2008 8:52 pm ET by renosteinke
"You made no mention of utilities."
What's to mention? There are none. When is the last time you saw a building from the 1800's with utilities?
What will it be used for when it's done? Whatever I want. A neighbor around here said every man needs a 'dog house'. Might be an office. Might be a store room. A meditation room. Or just a place where there's peace and quiet.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
"You made no mention of utilities."
What's to mention? There are none. When is the last time you saw a building from the 1800's with utilities?
We work on them all the time. Utilities are almost always added at some point. Very unusual for a house to not have any upgrades.
Not having any upgrades presents an interesting problem. How far do I want to go? I could easily add a meter or a feed to the outside of the house. But does the electricity take away from it?
So too, a bathroom. Surely it's a modern convenience but how necessary is it? the main house is only about a football field away. If anything, i would likely go with a small electric toilet in a closet, at least for now.
I've thought about how people lived in this house when it was first built. Kind of gives one a different perspective. Posessions meant a whole lot less than they do today. I'm not ready to move into the woods - that would be the uncleared back half of the lot - but I can definitely do without some of the #### that has become so commonplace these days - like television for one.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
We got rid of cable tv several months ago and don't miss it a bit. Still get Netflix but don't have rabbit ears. Love it.
WHAT!!!!!! WHAT???!!!!! plumbing in the house???? Aren't you going to build an outhouse right next to it. O.k., maybe not right next to it, downwind somewhere. Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
Outhouses aren't that bad, but they are a little uncomfortable at times and very illegal. I've been in the town for about a year, just starting to get known to the building department and the health department. Neither one is going to be real happy if an outhouse appears in the back yard - upwind or not.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I have a couple windows I would donate to the cause.
Let me know when you are driving thru Philaldephia. (Mabye check out the liberty bell while you are in town)
All you need to do is roof windows and side and then the rest can sit till you want to take on the next part of the project.
I'd be game if it was in my back yard. (might push my wife to divorce so maybe not, hmmmmm.............)
Save it if it's full of memories. They're irreplaceable. Otherwise, don't waste your time or money. The memories could be priceless!!!!!!!!!
Don - we're getting ready to start a Terne II with Kynar coating roof on a 1750's house next week. We're just finishing a new house with it. It's a nice roof (can be brake formed vs the pan formed commercial looking stuff) for what it costs.
http://www.follansbeeroofing.com/products/KlassicKolors.aspx
Here's the new project - it'll about be done today:
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http://grantlogan.net/
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete (I am so in love with myself) Draganic
You sir, are a tease.
I won't tell you what the local roofer said it might cost for the roof. I'll wait for his real estimate to see if he was just trying to scare me off. But I love metal roofing, always have. If I can somehow finagle Sphere into coming to this neck of town, it will be great.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rental
at the risk of highjacking this thread, i vote save BTW, this is exactly, I MEAN EXACTLY, what I'm looking to do as a free standing addition at my beach house. Can you give me the architects name and number?
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/at.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&guid=B5C777A5-812B-455F-8C64-08E169528C6F&frames=no
Can you give me the architects name and number?
Sure. From a technical standpoint, this is the best firm I've ever worked with. Like their designs or not, their plans leave little or nothing to question. Everything is detailed. When I bid one of their jobs, I know everybody is bidding apples to apples unless they can't read the plans.
Wilmes & Associates - 859-233-4989
Tom Wilmes is the principle. He's referrred me many times, so mention my name.
http://grantlogan.net/
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete (I am so in love with myself) Draganic
thanks, I'm assuming the picture, 3rd from last, is new construction, correct? BTW, how would you like 2 free weeks at the Jersey Shore for 14 sq metal roof, I'll pay for the materials of course.
Edited 2/9/2008 7:11 pm ET by dockelly
I'm assuming the picture, 3rd from last, is new construction, correct?
It's all new construction.
how would you like 2 free weeks at the Jersey Shore for 14 sq metal roof, I'll pay for the materials of course.
We'll talk about that. I'd have to say I'm interested. Give me more details and we'll hash it out.http://grantlogan.net/
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete (I am so in love with myself) Draganic
went back and reread your post, I thought that was the 1750 house, with a new addition, my mistake. I'll send you an email with my number, we'll talk about the barter of vacation for skills.
DonK
I could replicate that place for a few thousand dollars.. plus my time.. I'd save the things that you would like saved.. the siding and maybe a few boards? and reapply them..
However you'd want the floor to sit on a proper foundation and If you wanted to save the fireplace you could build it around the fireplace..
Anything else you'd like to do, windows doors etc.. would be added costs but youd be working from a square and true house.. not someplace that sags and dips.
Buy your wood from a sawmill to replicate proper sizes and when you are finished you will have something worthy of your time.
square, level & true are so over rated
and usually not the case in remodeling.......
how do you fix a bathroom that is 2" out of level with no way of reinforcing from below ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
You can do it, I'm sure you know how as well as I do. However when the added time to work with such issues plus the difficulty of dealing with all the other issues is looked at spending a couple of thousand up front is wisely spent money..
You could replicate that for little money using sawmill wood to retain historic identity. (not using modern dimensional lumber though, it wouldn't retain any authenticity)
If a particular sag or droop was deemed desirable it could be easily replicated..
Look at all the finely restored old homes which use authentic wood to retain originality..
how do you fix a bathroom that is 2" out of level with no way of reinforcing from below ?
I know!!!! I know!!!! I know!!!!
You get a different level right!!??? Do I win the prize? Can I pick my own prize?
Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
You're wrong.
You throw the level away!!!
What'd I win? Huh? What is it? Pleeze, tell me now!!!
well.. the limits ( constraints ) are the door threshold.... so that's one starting point
the other constraint is the tub ( shower )
it HAS to drain... so... you can't change the pitch until you get thru the door
and you have to set the tub level.... no matter what
everything else... you got it right
throw the level away....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Have a relative in an old Kentucky house in the hills. Nothing level, even the tub. You had to skootch the leftover water towards the drain with your foot after the bath.
Yeah, they do take baths there. sometimes
You mean I shouldnt have saved all those levels that are off by varying degrees?? Pick that right one and you just might get level or plumb. Ive even got one thats got a nice little curve to it ( I think that one is for crowned studs).
I really have to stop digging through the dumpsters!!!!Live by the sword, die by the sword....choose your sword wisely.
I actually bought a new level last night. It's a box beam swanson 24" BBL240. $5.95 on clearance at Lowes. Sells for upwards of $30.
"no way of reinforcing from below ?"There are always ways if the $$ is there.Go play in the mud for starters.
what if it's pitched towards the door ?.... playing in the mud ain't in the cardsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Step up, step down and then change the door. Whatever transform you want. Kitchens & baths, the Devil is in the details.If you don't believe me just ask me.
"square, level & true are so over rated"
Boy there are a bunch of contractors around here that would agree with that statement.
Don K.
EJG Homes Rrenovations - New Construction - Rentals
how do you fix a bathroom that is 2" out of level with no way of reinforcing from below ?
None of the rooms in my old house are only 2" out of level. My "new" bathroom, created from an old bedroom, is out of level 2" just from one end of the tub to the other. We built a little platform for the tub to stand on and left the rest of the floor alone.
View Image
smslaw, very nice! Is that in the chicken coop, or is the house another building?
Allen
The bathroom is in an old (200 years) part of the house. The coop is out in the yard. We use it for storing mowers and garden stuff.
If it were mine, I'd save it for nostalgic purposes. I would try to determine the minimum for now to keep it from getting further damaged (e.g. roof; perhaps jacking it up; siding (I'd cut my own from pine to save money; then keep it sprayed with Thompsons water seal)).
Roger
I think I would save it, keeping it pretty much as is. New roof, some siding to keep out the weather, maybe salvaged sashes, or new homebuilt. It's a nice looking relic.
When you're retired, on a nice cool fall day, sit in the house with a fire going, in a comfortable chair, with some refreshments at hand and a good book to read, by the light of some nice kerosene lamps, it don't get much better than that.
I don't see it being the type place to bring up to modern times though.
send me your address,i'll send you a book of matches with a return envolope,you send me 10% of the money the matches saved ya.
i know it's already to late ,your already getting bids,you know where that leads to don't ya?
WELL,WHILE I'M HERE I MIGHT AS WELL......................................good luck with your new hobby.
larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Edited 2/8/2008 11:28 pm by alwaysoverbudget
IF you want you could probably move it somewhere else in your property, or sell it.
Moving it to another part of the property would be a problem because of the chimney/fireplace. I know they can be pinned and moved, but I don't think the cost would be worth it.
I don't really dislike looking at the old building. I would enjoy it more if it were cleaned up, maybe painted. I just need to put some boards on it for siding - so the paint has something to stick to.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Something tells me to save it. Am I nuts?
Of course you're nuts. We all are. You know you want to save it. I'm looking out the window at an old chicken coop that needed to be saved. I put a few cheap windows in, replaced the roof shingles, a bit of framing, some sheathing, installed new cedar shingles on the walls, etc. It's still a chicken coop, but a much nicer one. Now I need some chickens.
I showed you mine. Now, you show me yours - the chicken coop.
Don K. a/k/a "Nuts"
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Don, for sure try to keep it. Looks like there's a couple salvagable sash there, and definitely enough still intact to to do a first-rate restoration. And the place is small enough not to consume an impossible level of materials and labor.
There was a similar vacant house a mile-and-a-half down the road from me. I considered moving it to my property and restoring it, just for the sake of saving it. But I pondered too long, and it was eventually torn down a couple years ago.
Sadly, I never even photographed it. It was a small storey-and-a-half with a shed extension to the rear. Still had all its original sash. Probably 1840 or so. Greek Revival period, and style mostly, but not eave returns.
Allen
No, I'm sorry to say that the sash are way past shot. I had to climb into the second story to find enough parts to determine they were originally 6 over...(forgot to look at the bottom half). Curiously, I found some old wooden sash upstairs without glass. I don't think they will fit the openings, but somebody saved themfor some reason.
About 3/4 mile down the road is another building that I have looked at for a while. It's an old school. I could probably save some of the siding from it. I ran into the owner of it a few months ago and mentioned that I admired the building. I think he was waiting for an offer to buy it.
You wouldn't believe the buildings that get abandoned and neglected down here. Not fancy construction, but good usable buildings. Makes me nearly cry. Old houses, sheds or tobacco barns - log structures - no good to anyone any more. They stand until the wind catches a corner of the roof, then a couple years later, they are gone. Nobody cares.
I'll get some pictures.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
"You wouldn't believe the buildings that get abandoned and neglected down here."
Don, I live in a rural county in western New York state. It has been in a decline since the 19th century. The populations of many towns around here peaked before 1900.
The landscape is dotted with abandoned homes dating from the area's heyday ... the 1830s and 1840s, which was after the Erie Canal brought prosperity, and before the railroads expanded commercial opportunities to elsewhere.
Many of these homes are small and simple, but there are mansions, too, that are left rotting. Increasingly, these are being torn down, or burned by the fire departments for "safety." It's sad, but there is no interest and no money for folks around here to save or restore these old places.
For those that don't move to warmer or more prosperous areas, it's easier to just park a doublewide in front of one of those grand old homes. And, of course, the barns and outbuilding are left to fall in on themselves, which doesn't take long once the roofs are gone.
By the way, even here "up North," beadboard is the common name for beaded tongue-and-groove planks, as in "beadboard paneling." Or "beadboard ceiling" as is used commonly for porches. Or if only partially up the wall, then it's "beadboard wainscoting."
Allen
Based on what you are saying, I'm glad I don't live up there. I'd be setting up a group and trying to save all those houses - an impossible task I'm sure.
Besides that, it's probably pretty cold. :-)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
"Don, I live in a rural county in western New York state. "Genesee? Cattaraugus?
"Genesee? Cattaraugus?"
Jer, it's Orleans County, which borders Lake Ontario to the north and Genesee County to the south. The Erie Canal is a couple miles north of my house.
You originally from around here?
When I was searching for a place to restore back in '95, I looked at properties in a six-county area. I was even open to something in the same condition as DonK's project, and found a few I considered. But I couldn't get the owners to sell ... for reasons like, "I use the yard and driveway to park my farm equipment."
Ended up with an 1830s Greek Revival house on 30 acres. A couple of barns. The house was largely original, but needed some structural work, and some undoing of a little 1980's remuddling. But it was livable, which made things less complicated.
Allen
I was born in Lockport and lived for 12 years in Niagara Cty in Newfane, then we moved to Erie Cty to a very rural area about 25 miles South of Buffalo. So yeah, I'm from there and quite familiar with snow although I don't miss it. I haven't really been back to visit in over 15 years. I was at St. Bonneventure U last summer for a wedding and had me a Beef on Weck with some of that sinus clearing horse radish. Tasted damned good.
It was a great place to grow up.So much of upstate has seen a lot of depression over the past two or three decades and indeed it is quite heartbreaking to see the lovely old homes and barns being laid waste to Mother Nature due to lack of upkeep.
There are two others that I've looked at. One (an old school) the owner would likely sell easily - the bigger one in the picture. The other one is owned by a doctor that's developing the property around it. I don't know what his plans are, need to find somebody that knows him and can get me the inside scoop. He is actually the brother of the man I bought from, and we aren't friends.
Edit: Clicked too fast and missed the pictures. I'll put them in another post.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Edited 2/10/2008 2:10 pm ET by DonK
I would call a restoration company that will gladly remove most of the contents and possible pay you for anything remove. The remainder - dispose of - with a decent company there won’t be much left. You will be money ahead and it won’t cost you any time or effort. Another option - salvage anything worth saving. Most fire departments will burn the building down, for free, in order to train fresh recruits. Take the free way out! Most buildings of that age are more trouble than there worth unless they have historical value. If this is the case your local historical society will haul the entire building away free of charge [With taxpayer dollars] and possible pay you for it. It depends on it’s condition and historical importance; but be careful they can get an injection and you’ll have to save it no matter the condition if it is deemed of some historical value and they can not move it. Do your homework before proceeding or sell what you can and have a house burning party - people love fire and booze. Good luck!
some inspiration from a fun summer a coupla summers ago ...
before ...
View Image
and after.
View Image
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Edited 2/10/2008 2:56 am ET by JeffBuck
Edited 2/10/2008 2:57 am ET by JeffBuck
exactly......Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Well, here's a picture of the neighbor's house - buried in the woods about 100 yards from mine. I didn't fight my way into it. Still had my "school clothes" on from church. It got copied twice - same picture. Sorry, no ghost.
Also included is a picture of another similar house of a neighbor about 1/3 mile away. But it was kept up and repainted last year.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I went back and took a picture of the trim. Didn't come out great. I also got one of the stairs. Not quite up to code. Only the bottom step is really bad.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renoations - New Construction - Rentals
Don
Is it possible that these houses were servants/slave quarters? Not sure where the slave/servant thing divided but with any ornamentation I'd guess servants but.......
Seams as though every place(in your neighborhood) has one of those in there back yard!
I'd opt to save it.
Doug
Like Sphere said yesterday, unlikely it was for slaves. The Emancipation Proclamation and Civil War were a few decades earlier than the house. It does have some Victorian decoration so it could have been built 1880 or so. That is still a very open question. Servants or sharecroppers? Maybe. BTW, there was an old road out there right on the other side of the house at one time. It shows up on my survey. Maybe it was just somebody's little house.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New construction - Rentals
There's lots similar houses around here. Sometimes they were built for a daughter or son when they got married.
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete (I am so in love with myself) Draganic
Don't do that to me! I was clicking along and that Shewolf showed up. I darn near fell over backwards.
Anyway here's the other two pictures I meant to include.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Is that building on your property as well?
http://grantlogan.net/
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete (I am so in love with myself) Draganic
No, none of the other buildings are on my property. One is next door (the unpainted one) and the two "white ones" are a little down the road.
Mine (below) looks a little better, but it needs a paint job. This year - really. I'm also planning on an extension out the back of our house for the kitchen. It will be about 10x15, and I'll move the bathroom on the first floor while I'm at it.
I'm waiting for approvals for another renovation on a 1960's cape that my wife owns nearby - add a 12x16 bedroom and a 5x12 reverse gable extension out the front. I figure those should keep me busy for a while - like to the end of the year.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
The house in question, is that it right behind your house in the picture? If yes, that's definitely a save. You could come and go so easily from the main house. Can't you picture it, a den of masculinity, football games on TV, all night poker games, I could go on and on. I didn't read through the 100+ threads, did you make a decision?Kevin
Doc-
It is pretty much about 100 yards from my main house. Yes, I can picture it as a place to go to - a den of masculinity (a/k/a - the DOGHOUSE).
I think I'm going to go for it. I'll need to cover the hole in the roof for the time being until I can get it repaired or replaced. I haven't done any metal roofing yet so we'll be calling somebody in for that. Then, once it warms up, I'll go over the foundation - piers, maybe level it up a little, redo the floor and get some new sheathing and siding for it. Oh yeah, and some windows and doors. Coat of paint and we're good to go.
It sounds so easy, doesn't it?
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
It's gotta be something you love, nothing easy about it but enjoyable if you like that kind of stuff, I do.
haven't done any metal roofing yet so we'll be calling somebody in for that.
Why? Not that I wouldn't enjoy working with Duane...
Doesn't get much simpler than that one. I found a retired roofer here who spent a couple hours getting me started, then loaned me his antique tools. The sort that generally brings $2-300/set at auction. Hand-formed pans on site. Worked great.
Everything self-aligns, so it's difficult to screw up. Seriously, if you have any desire to learn, this is an excellent opportunity. Here's my first attempt. No leaks!
And with my building it would've mattered. <G>
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
i was wondering when we would see those again
View Image
who made your ridge piece ?
what are you doing for the horizontal joints ?
summer shade - winter sun ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
With apologies to Don... Mike, no idea which thread I posted those photos to, quite awhile ago.
But after your help, everything went great. Even if I didn't follow all your advice...
The ridge piece is recycled from the original installation, where it was inside the room. Heavy aluminum so I figured it would be fine outside. The vertical joint covers were also originally used inside the room, but I had them so...
Horizontal joints don't need anything but EPDM gasket from Resource Conservation (much better than the butyl goo from the original installation which leaked, causing them to use cases of silicone caulk). There was a ~2" lip on the lower edge of each panel, designed to cover the horizontal seam. Nice feature.
No leaks here, whether driven rain or melting snow. Notice I halved the original span, in deference to the occasional glue failure. Which was mostly due to stacking the panels, with the black goo sticking them together, occasionally loosening the skin while prying the panels apart. Nasty stuff, and it didn't completely prevent leaking. EPDM is better.
The newer installation of more panels (ready tomorrow) is a machinery pole shed here. No copper, just translucent panels. Planning to use some recycled heavy L shaped galvanized for the edges, same vertical joint covers as before (until I run out of them). No point in buying new roofing material that I can see... Another 2000 sq ft or so to go (interested Don?). And more tractors. Recycled posts and rafters, for that matter.
Pine with 1/16" wide annual rings! Rough sawn, 1 7/8" thick. Came from a large pole barn I was paid to raze.
Summer shade, winter sun is correct. Shade provided by our mature trees. I did take down one oak with 40' branches overhanging the lumber shed. The friendly roofer couldn't believe I'd built so close to a tree. He pointed out that those branches would be coming down one day, through my copper. I do better with concrete and dirt, where trees aren't an issue.
38' butt log, ~500 bd ft red oak. Top yielded 1 1/2 cords for my helpful friend. A nice load in the deuce-and-a-half.
I keep telling you to come and play. Just don't laugh too hard at my carpentry. Wasn't it you who recently opined that square, plumb, and level are often over-rated? LMAO No worry here. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
at least there's one crimson grad gainfully employed
View Image
are you far from DonK ?
see , i'm thinking wander down the coast.... go see my bro in Northern Neck
then wander west to see DonK & you
then south to Charlotte to see our newest ( early July )
then back up north to rest up for PeachFest
oh, yeah.. gotta do some work in the meantimeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Definitely meet DonK if you have the chance. He's a pretty good guy. Just don't tell him I said that.(-:
Yesterday at a White House ceremony, the official portrait of President Clinton was unveiled. Apparently, Clinton's portrait is so realistic that Hillary immediately started yelling at it." [Conan O'Brien]
He's talked me into a visit in the spring, we'll see how THAT goes..<G>Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
at least there's one crimson grad gainfully employed
Like a beaver?
DW's humor. The small print says "Business School". Not that my pursuits are unworthy, just minimally compensated. My bequest to my alma mater (not Harvard) was promising to never, ever send them any money. Thereby saving them large sums in unrequited postage and printing costs. Now if I could just get the local chapter to leave me alone...
Don's close to NC, couple/3 hrs from here. We keep talking about meeting up. I rarely travel, but will be in Boston very early July. You know, there are better seasons to visit Va.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
her due date is July 1..... i have no control over thatMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You're right, but Charlotte isn't better. Gotta admit, being expectant any later in the summer sounds worse. Congrats.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Mike, on the trip down, stop and see Jon Blakemore in northern VA. It's on the way.
With a little notice, I can put you up in a rental that I have on the lake.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Mike,
Since Splintie has impugned my taste in real estate, [ G ] I figured I'd send you a picture taken Thursday off the deck of the lakefront house I mentioned. It's a pretty nice view. No pictures of the back of the house since I need to redo the deck and I'm working on getting a glass rail system together.
Also included a better picture of the '48 Chevy.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New construction - Rentals
Maybe you could lend Sphere and myself the Chevy instead...hmmm...
I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing!
Beep beep M Beep beep mmmmm YEAH.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
It has black leather (I think) seats. They may be easy to clean, but they are cold this time of year and hot in the summer.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Are you driving it to Peachfuzzfest? I'll bring a blanket!
I could see me driveing that home and looking at your new roof in the rearview mirrors...yep, I sure can.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
You be fighting my helper to take that one home. He's had his eyes on it since he first saw it about 6 months ago. He's out driving around today looking for an old truck for me. I told him if I can find the truck, I'll sell the Chevy.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
i assume u weren't talking to yourself
where is this ???
View Image
and your '48 chevy... is that the one that volvo copied for their classic ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
If you go back a bit (Post 142?) where I offered you a place to stay...this is the view from the back deck.
It's a two bedroom house on the John Kerr a/k/a Buggs Island lake. The lake is about 55,000 acres and has two serious rivers attached. It was created as part of one of the hydroelectric projects back in the 50's and has provided a source of entertainment since. Fishing, boating, on and on. The surrounding land is owned by the US Army Corp of Engineers and they are very difficult to deal with. Mine is one of the few lots on the lake that had a clearcutting permit. Everything else is treed.
Since it's a small house, I wanted to add some space to it without a lot of BS about the septic system. It's going on the market. So, I'm converting the one car garage in the back to a den. We were working there the day after the snow and I grabbed the camera and took a picture of the cove looking out onto the Lake. Should get the final inspection this week. Then I need to design the railing system.
As far as the Volvo? Couldn't say.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
i was just surprised to see a snow scene in Virginia...
i guess you were too, huh ?
gorgeous settingMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The night before, around 9:30 I looked out the back porch window and couldn't believe the snowflakes. They were really coming down. When I got up in the morning, it was gorgeous. Everything covered with white. As I was going to work, there were so few cars on the road because most of the locals see three inches of snow and go apoplectic. I took a couple pictures, not enough. I expected that the water would make a pretty picture against the white stuff, and was right. By 4 that afternoon, about 75% of the snow was gone. Okay with me.
If we get another good snowfall, I'll spend some more time taking pictures. Don't expect it though.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Hey Don,How goes your project, did you start anything yet?Kevin
Hi Doc-
I haven't started working on it. As a matter of fact, I talked to a buddy on Friday about clearing out some trees around it. I figured he could get away from the house and crawl in the poison ivy instead of me. :-)
Without getting into details, I've got at least four other jobs in front of that one. (One of them is our kitchen extension, but at least that one's on the same lot.) I did get some scaffold and will get to the missing piece of roofing as soon as I can. I will post some pics too.
I know your project is moving forward. Good for you. Once you figure it all out, you can stop by and teach me!
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
"Once you figure it all out, you can stop by and teach me! "I guess your in no hurry then?:)
Hi Don,
My old brain seems crosswired lately. The other day I was driving some old country roads and saw a small old barn that was collapsing and someone seemed to be picking for lumber. Great idea (with proper permissions).
Anyway, just down from that was another small cabin/house that seemed to be in relatively good shape but it didn't appear to have had any visitors for many, many years.
It reminded me of your situation and the discussion last spring.
Have you done anything with yours since then? Do you still want to? Just being curious and/or just plain nosey. It would be enjoyable to see a photo thread if you do start working it.
I said crosswired because I remembered this thread but can't remember where I put my keys 10 minutes ago. <g>
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Edited 10/28/2008 4:32 pm by oldbeachbum
Hello again,
Short answers - Have I done anything? No. Do I want to? Yes, probably.
I've been pestering a couple guys to get over here and clean the brush out so we can get to the shack and do some work. Latest promise was this coming Friday. We shall see.
I'm working on other projects on the same property - extension of the kitchen on the main house, repaint of the exterior including outbuildings and new front porch steps. (This is in addition to the other properties that need attention - for example - last week an 18 square rip off of 2 layers and reroof on another rental.)
I've got some help, which is good, or I wouldn't get anything done! But, it is starting to get cold and that screws up the schedule. Attached is a picture of DEEDUBYA, who shot over from the western aprt of the state to help me for a few days with the basement on the new kitchen. (Sorry for the size of the pic.) Should frame it within the next week or two.
As far as a photo thread, that's unlikely. I don't have the patience to take, edit and load all the pictures. I'll likely take a few, but the editing, posting and writing would not be fun.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Thanks, we'll be watching....The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Tom -
Thanks for the offer on the roofing. I don't know about the economics of it since the material itself is pretty cheap. I will keep it in mind especially if we get together for another reason. If I come up, I'm bringing a trailer. :-)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Hello there and nice to hear from you,
I've heard that metal roofing isn't the hardest job to do. Having never done any, I'm a little intimidated with that roof in particular. I've gotten to the point in my life where a) I don't bounce when I hit the ground and b) I've decided that sometimes it's better to let somebody else do something that they are better at. When I work on a roof, I want scaffold under me, lots of it. I'm not thrilled with chicken ladders and Sphere's idea of using a pair of vice grips to hold my big kiester up there somehow isn't going to cut it.
I'm planning to put an extension on the back of the main house for the kitchen and that will require metal roofing too. That one I will likely attack either on my own or with help. I enjoy learning new skills too, but I don't see me ever doing a large amount of metal roofing for $$$ so it's a skill I'm not too worried about learning.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Don't forget to put the escape tunnel between the main house and this one.
Escape tunnel?
I wish I could dig one. That would be soooo cool. Unfortunately, the stuff they call soil around here will not cooperate. It's clay, really nasty red, heavy, ugly clay. I'll just have to travel above ground and dodge the projectiles.
Many thanks for the smile.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Five k will buy you an adequate backhoe I know of here. No problem with that red clay. A little more to line that ditch/tunnel with concrete. Precast culvert?
Think positive. Like you're doing with the structure. It's not an unrealistic plan.
Just money...PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
don .. i got a 24" aluminum culvert escape tunnel out of my basement.....
also serves as a tempered fresh air intake
me and my nephews have all crawled thru it
like vatom says.... backhoe , culvert, and some kind of exit structureMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Wait..you are on an ISLAND..where ya escape to the ocean?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
no... i originally envisioned it as a "green" hvrh
you know ..earth tempered air
fresh air summer & winter...
never hooked it up to blower... but did get a kick out of challenging my daughter & nephews & neices to crawl thru
comes up on the far side of the driveway
figger when the feds got us surrounded we can exit in their rear
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Sounds like a great place for the kids.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
yes....View Image
it's the one between the red car and the main house...
hey don... is that some kinda classic car ... the red one ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Yes Mike, it is sort of a collector car.
1948 Chevy Aerosedan. Altered just a little from the original. 327 Corvette engine with Turbo 350 tranny and some low geared rear end. Black interior and obviously, not a stock color. I bought it a few years ago, and haven't had much use of it at all. From sitting, it needs some attention - power steering pump and blown brake line (or master cylinder). Soon. My helper wants to buy it in the worst way. I told him that when I find an old truck (late 30's Chevy pick up, I hope or similar) we can talk. i've also got a project car in NY - 1935 Chevy 4 door. Somebody was supposed to buy it last year, then backed out last minute. Slight problem - I don't have a garage, yet.
Thanks for asking.
our little alley house was built in 1902.
actually think "rebuilt" that year ...
we're on the back of a hillside ....
one street up has a view that overlooks the whole city.
all the other houses for blocks around ... are listed as being built in the 30's at the earliest ... most in the 40's.
so I'm thinking our little 2br on the side of the hill was the servants quarters ....
or maybe a cookhouse or something like that ...
for a much larger house that once sat on top of the hill.
doubt they'd pick this as the first building lot.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
So, when are you going to put the two story tower up top? That would p.o. somebody when you stole their view.
I liked your barn picture. Place looked like it was in pretty solid shape. Did you do new floors and all in there?
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
it wasn't in too bad shape ... just failing foundation.
we left the little stub walls the barn was built on ... and busted out the concrete floor. Block only went down about a foot .... so dug down to that ... and epoxied 1" rods ... ran then in ... and poured a new floor.
new floor was that foot deep 18" inside the perimeter ... then 8" deep in the middle ... no rebar ... had fibermesh in the mix. Made a floating floor that's be strong enough to hold and lift the walls with the frost. Had way more gravel in there than planned ... as the barn was built in the worst possible spot .... the only bowl on the property ... all the acreage ran to that spot .... started digging ... it was like hitting a spring!
it started life as a hog barn .... my first task was tear out the stalls ... make for an open floor plan on the first floor .... that made for some interresting creeks and groans .... then replaced the inner support posts with steel lally's.
that was kinda scary too ... never quite sure when it was all gonna tumble down.
shoulda painted it first ... that made it look 100% more solid!
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I like your method of tying it all together. I'm involved with one now where the perimeter beam is supported on the ends, but has nothing under it in the middle. The 2x8 floor beams have either disintegrated, rotted or separated from the perimeter beam. I need to tie them back together and somehow support that beam since it's holding up the walls. (This independant floor suspension system is new to me.)
I would have loved to work on a project like that. I'm almost jealous, but I know it was a lot of work. Glad you had fun with it.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
So you're thinking more along the lines of making it along the lines of the neighbor's painted place then, aye?
Those stairs are something else. You consider doing something wild like lightening it all by opening it up with a balcony and stairway by the chimney or keeping it closer to original?
View Image
be what light through yonder window breaks
Peach full,easy feelin'.
I will probably open up the stairs. They were open originally, but somebody closed them in after the fact. The "railing" upstairs is a hoot, whatever boards they could find, nailed together, floor to ceiling, sortof.
By the way, it seems there was sopme kind of electric in there at one time. I found a couple of knob and tube insulators on one of the ceiling beams. At least I won't feel like I'm really destroying the "original building" when I put juice in it.
I need to think about the plans for expansion after I get the place stood back up. My neighbor was here yesterday - telling me I need to put on a lean-to for a kitchen. (He's moved a couple log cabins, so I think he's got a clue what's involved.) I'm already looking at the east side, and it looks like there was a porch out that side at one time. I'm going to start digging and look for some evidence of where the "footings" were.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
yep, gotta love those old stairs.
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Had a set like that in my old office.
It seems like they all have just enough headroom to crack your skull every time you go down.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I love anything old and have rebuilt a few old bombs on my own, however i dont have the will and time anymore, I keep thinking me and one other carpenter used to build a 2 car garage in one week, complete,, New building is a much better use of your time. If you take this on however i commend you, In my town there is a old horse barn, The thing is rotten through. The town would not let the people take it down thus they can not divide there property for another building lot, And they dont allow horses in it either so what good is it????
To me, your original question implies leaving the building alone and letting it be. If you like the look of the old building..then leave it alone and enjoy the view. Let nature take its course. If you enjoy the idea of a nice empty field/meadow.. you take the appropriate action to make that happen. I could see either of those options having appeal.
The idea of "restoring" it bewilders me... you take something old (and rather beat up)which apparently some folks here value, and piece by piece you replace it with new.. so what you end up with is a "sort of" copy of the original..but perhaps with better windows, better roof, better etc... . But, it is no longer this "cherished" old thing , but rather some frankenstein version of what was there.
The restoration idea would have utterly no appeal to me...but hey that's just me.
I've faced that very dilemma you speak of, when your done, what have you saved? I have tried to upgrade those things not seen, like the beam under house or the SS metal connectors. My neighbor asked if I was going to vinyl side the place, and I laughed out loud, scrape and paint is the plan. Vinyl siding would be sacrilege. What I want is the illusion of antiquity with the safety of modern construction techniques. Me and mine are under that roof, I want the gold standard for safety, above all else.Kevin
Kivi,
Not only that but all the added work of dealing with out of level crooked thing without a proper foundation or anything of real value..
New doors and new windows will simply look wrong and without them it's a derelict.
Why not take all the pieces off that you charish and build a nice square house on that site using the saved pieces? it would be faster, simpler and far more durable..
Rez - I have to save it now. It has a NAME!
I ran into a woman today at the election building that owned our house for a little while. She was working and couldn't talk long, but she said the building is the Georgia Redd (sp?) House. She didn't know anything beyond that.
I may talk to some of the other old timers in the neighborhood, and I may do some reasearch on it if I have time. To me it's more important that I do something with it. Should be fun (maybe when it's over).
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
The process is more fun. Sounds like you're already in it.
BE WARE OF THE NAYSAYERS
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Thats it, now ya have to.
My place was called "the old Hoover house" "The Logsdens" and The "Golden House" after all the owners had passed on.
That is kinda neat.
Matter of fact, that paneling like you have, and I had, had a delivery crayon written address of 'Logsden, Panola Ky"
I actually live in Panola, but the mail went to Waco, when the RailRoad was pulled out of Panola.
You're hooked brother, I;ll go warm up the van and be over..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
An old house like that needs a porch dog.
Or 3.
You know yer a redneck if yer porch collapses and 6 dogs die.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
"I have to save it now. It has a NAME!"
Now you've gone and done it. Once you name it and get emotionally attached, you're screwed.
That's like your Wife finding a puppy alongside the road - Once she names it, you know you're stuck with it.
(sigh)
If you're gonna do this, we expect pictures...
Gravity's the only thing keeping me here.
This is going to be an interesting chore. I'm taking pictures for my own file. I'll probably share 'em. Given my recent experience, I don't think it's going to happen nearly as quickly as I want it to.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Great pix. What is estimate to redo, foundation or no? Just wondering. Tell ya why later.
hee hee
Dawter has one sitting too.
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Just found your post. Sorry I didn't respond earlier.
As far as the estimate, I have no clue at this point and am likely better off if I don't do one. It would probably scare ME off. There are still too many variables. I will not be doing a foundation. The piers that are holding it up are in pretty good shape overall.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Edited 2/16/2008 2:29 pm ET by DonK
I have 2 sisters in Charlottesville, planning on visiting them in March, when are you starting this project?Kevin
Doc -
Sorry I missed your post too.
I'm not likely to get to this one until fall. I've got a bunch of work backed up now including a whole house renovation with a couple extensions, new kitchen and bathroom, and reside. Plus, I've committed to redoing our kitchen this year (another expension) and painting the outside of the house. I'll try to get the roof done and close it up some to prevent further deterioration as time allows. If Sphere gets her and gets the roof done, it will prompt me to do more.
If you are in the neighborhood in March, let me know. We can try to hook up. I'd love to meet you.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Thanks for an insightful opinion.
As far as the view, I do not feel that the meadow is more or less appealing with the structure on it. I like the structure, not as a piece of art, to be enjoyed, but as a house. It was a place that somebody built to live it. It was one of many in the area. I did not post many photos of the inside. It's difficult to photograph well, particularly for someone that's unskilled in the area. I like the inside of the building. I could enjoy it.
But, the inside is connected to the outside and the outside is in bad shape. In order to use it for anything beyond a teenager's play house, it needs to be repaired. The amount and degree of repair and updating is a significant issue. My preference would be to leave as much as possible of the old building, within reason. I'm not sure where you came up with the idea of a Frankenstein renovation. maybe you've read one too many of Frenchy's posts. I don't think the end result will be at all monsterous.
Although I joked about putting vinyl siding on it, I would no more do that than I would paint it hot pink. That's just not right. I'm going to redo the roof with an identical material to what is there, but it will be painted. I will reside it, probably using a real wood siding similar to what is there. I'm going to put new windows in to replace the ones that are no good. I may use wood, or I may not. I will put doors on it, hopefully of similar character to the existing. I will put electric into it to make the building useful as something more than storage, and I will put the porch back where it was.
Hopefully someday 50 years from now somebody will still be able to enjoy it.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Sorry my reference to frankenstein was not meant to imply that the reno would be at all unattractive (perhaps a poor choice for a word on my part), but rather a more philisophical one in that if you replace almost every piece in a thing... is it still that thing? (ie. Is the copy that you create a satisfying one, and does it satisfy your idea of saving it ?) If so, great !
I did not understand that you had a real purpose for the building if it was fixed up. I had the impression that it's purpose was an unknown, and that you were hoping for it to fill some as yet undetermined need, or desire. I thought you were considering saving it, even though it may sit there empty once saved. My thoughts were based on that thinking, and on the idea that as you look at either version (reno'ed or not), which version gives you the greater sense of the history of the building. Although you pointed out the notion of seeing the building as art, (which is interesting in itself), it is not quite what I was referring to. I was just considering it as the historical item. Perhaps the best way to contrast my thought is to compare it to an antique. If an antique has been refinished... it has very likely lost a great deal of its value to many folks.
With more of a purpose to the building, obviously the rationale for fixing the building changes. Hope you have a great time with it.
Don, might talk to Coastal Lumber over in Weldon/Goldsboro about cypress for siding.Main site: http://www.coastallumber.com/default.htmWeldon/Goldsboro office: Southern Sales Office: (252) 536-4211 phone (252) 536-3102 faxSteve Wall has cypress also, and does have some 1C listed. Might call Steve and see if he can get something for siding, he's over in Mayodan, NC.Main site: http://www.walllumber.com/default.aspIts' a neat building, hope you can rehab it.
Leon
It's a neat building, for sure and thx for the link.
I need to look at the siding to see if there are different types/sizes. Or, maybe I'll let Mr. Fenestrator look at it. :-) I'll also need to look at the prices. Don't know that I want/need to refinance the house to pay for siding for the little house. We will see.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
The reasons I suggested cypress are that it's pretty rot-resistant and it's fairly local.When you do your tear-out you might take a close look and check if there's any chestnut in there, if so, it could bring in a pretty penny.
Leon
Why not?
Here is a small barn rescued and converted.
The barn itself originally was built out of salvaged timbers from an old logging railroad.
Inside wood paneling was resawn from unneeded timber from the restoration and trees felled to make a home for the place.
Each horizontal line had to be kept the same width all the way around the inside of the building. Each also had to be as close as possible in the same thickness.
More interior: Pic 032 shows a unique set of french doors.
Milk bones to the first one to see what it is.
Edited 2/14/2008 1:17 am by dovetail97128
My first thought was "Small Barn"? Nothing small about it in my book. I like the concept and the result. Well done.
I noticed the back porch roof seems unsupported on the outer edge. What was the method of structural support/connection for it?
As far as the doors, I would guess they were from an interior part of the original barn, but it's only a WAG.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Porch roof is a cantilever mono-truss.
8' inside the building 12' hanging out. Held in place with a whole lot of Simpson strapping and Simpson Ties. The engineer on that portion of the job was one of the premier wood products designers in this state at the time. Maybe I will scan in a couple of pics of his own house for the photo thread. It is a 3 story octagon , each level off set from the one below and all sitting on a pole foundation. Building is 30 x 50 IIRC so while a lot bigger then Don's place still small for a barn. The door issue may not be easily seen due to the scale of the pictures.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Cool place DT!
Those french doors that you picture, don't know what the deal with them is but they almost look like the doors on a store/business where they both open side to side?
Doug
doors from a school?
If he says Ebony, Wenge, African Black wood, Zircote, or blackened red fish, I am gonna kill him.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
They're tall! And i'm with Sphere: if those are ebony, we're each killing half of you. <G> I think they're painted, though, same color as the doors opposite. Other than that, no clue unless they're a former packing crate, along with the side-lights.
Nope , they are salvaged doors. Out of an old school. CVG Fir, Front doors (the other pair are new) but that isn't what is different. Wish I had a pic of the underside of the soffit on the big roof over hang on the porch.
It is salvaged gym bleachers , 1 x 8 TxG CVG Fir. The old bolt holes were all plugged with 5/16" dowels and the boards blind nailed up. I did this whole project without a real set of plans. Hand drawn drawings left by the owner on onion skin for me each weekend when he came down from his home in Seattle. I brought the engineer into the job as he was a long time friend of mine and I knew we could work together. BI just went with the flow as long as the engineer was happy.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Ooooooooo...now i have bleacher envy! I remember the old wooden bleachers from my HS - perfect, clear wood, and miles of it.<<I did this whole project without a real set of plans. Hand drawn drawings left by the owner on onion skin>>I like jobs where trust replaces all the paperwork...at least when it works out. I'm trying to help a gal from Knots, very bright but newish to wood-working, in figuring her time and pricing a job, but i'm of limited help with a contract bec my customers mostly showed me pics they liked, i drew up something, and the contract would read something like "Bed, bubinga, $3500" with a drawing clipped to it. I don't think i'd be that lax if i had it to do over, though.
I will end the thread hi-jack and my secret. One door is 2'6" wide , the other is 2'8" wide. Owner had salvaged them from another job , no frame. He had also designed the framing to fit what he thought he had, which was a pair of 2'8' doors. I discovered the difference and told him, he asked could I make them work . Yep , no problem. Side lights were custom built on site to fit and they are equal size. I don't think 1 in 100 people who walk in that place ever notice . One cool thing is the fireplace mantle. It came from China, 1000 +/- year granite (IIRC) old well marker for an ancient Chinese vineyard.
Owner found it for sale someplace and since the building is a vineyard office and winery he thought it would be a neat addition. He of course wasn't the one who had to handle it and install it.
Edited 2/14/2008 1:17 pm by dovetail97128
Guess you're not out any milkbones.
Similar situation with some billiard room windows I bought from a guy who had them shipped over from England.
The North side ones are several inches shorter, but hardly anyone ever notices.
View Image
View Image
Edited 2/14/2008 1:30 pm ET by theslateman
Excellent artistry !! It is all about creating the illusion the minds "eye" wants to see. I just did a trim out on a corner window where the two windows were separated by a 5" corner post.
One was set 1/2" higher than the other and since it was a full wrap wood trim window (skirt, sill , head, and crown) all the components met in the corner. Being the Magician is fun sometimes.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Thanks-- I used 3 on each wall and kept the header height the same and made my own frames and used recycled trim from a house I took down.
You can fool most of the people most of the time.
There was a fellow in Renton WA who shipped a container load a week of antiques from England. Folks from here went over to buy stained-glass windows. A woman with a shop in town stabilized them - the lead was often compromised - and i'd frame them. I probably did a couple dozen that size. The buyers would just hang them in front of their thermal panes, though.
Guilty as charged !!!
i'm of limited help with a contract bec my customers mostly showed me pics they liked, i drew up something, and the contract would read something like "Bed, bubinga, $3500" with a drawing clipped to it. I don't think i'd be that lax if i had it to do over, though.
That method's been working for me for several decades. I've dealt with enough (real estate) contracts to know that there always needs to be some good faith involved, no matter what the paperwork.
Dovetail's experience is wonderful when it happens. And it can. Requires good faith by both parties. My client house was built that way. We're still good friends.
From the worker's perspective, you must choose your clients wisely. I was burned once, by a GC in Denver. Probably I've rejected some unfairly, but there's always more work. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Come to think of it, i guess i haven't changed my spots, either. I worked PT last summer and fall, T&M, for the woman who bought my Victorian. She was shuffling money around and refinancing, so i told her if she kept up with materials costs, i'd wait on the labor until the dust setttled. It turned out she couldn't live with the several thousand dollars owing and paid me out of savings instead. I've got another summer's work next year, too. And i get dinner if i'm still there when it's served! <G>
Did a large mountainside excavation job. Owner was thrilled, as he'd had trouble finding anybody to take it on. Major rocks. Had known me for years, but not as a tractor operator. Called in desperation, didn't have any idea what I had for equipment (old, smallish).
When we got to where I couldn't reach any higher, he requested I buy a hoe. I declined. He bought a hoe for me to use, then another one to reach higher. About that time I decided it was time to teach him, an 80 yo with poor eyesight.
His loving neighbors were horrified, certain he'd kill himself. Nope, had the time of his life. Kept me current with money, and a $1k bonus. I'm now only his hoe mechanic, until he gets into something difficult.
Those kind of referrals are priceless. Like you're gonna get.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Great, great story...Braille excavation!A lot of my customers in the craft fair business turned out to be friends and i'd stay at their houses when i did shows in their towns. I was kinda like a relative who visits once a year...not too long or too frequently not to have loads to talk about and break out the good wine!
Tom,
I'd like to keep working on handshakes, but I can't.
My experience, when I was practicing law in NY was that it was just too dang hard to get paid, especially after the work was done - then nobody needs you. I got real tired of chasing money. I finally did what so many others did - got the retainer up front or no work. I've seen judges say - "Counselor, whether you are getting paid is not my concern. You are representing a client." I don't buy that logic, not because of the cases where the client doesn't have it; because of the cases where the client is taking advantage.
The same thing is true in construction. People take advantage. I do work mostly on my own places. Too often when I get into outside jobs where I'm trying to be a nice guy, I get screw*d. I'm tired of it. Really. I give lots of credit to those that can deal with the market every day, but I'm never going to do it full time. I'd rather work for H4H. I love the building, hate the business.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
"just too dang hard to get paid"
Some things never change... Saw an exhibit of Abe Lincoln materials at the Hunnington Library in Pasadena. Along with things like an early draft of the Gettysburg address were a bunch of his bills to deadbeats, back when he was practicing law. Funny, that's one of the things that really stuck in my mind...
""I love the building, hate the business."" Perfect!! Wonder if I can fit that on my business cards.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
You won't need business cards. You can work for someone else. ;^P
ok... i give...
what's ;^pMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
tongue OUT of cheek
Now don't be letting that just lol around uselessly..I have it from good authority, that if ya bring it out, ya gotta use it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Do me a favor you two - go get a room. :-)
If youze want, I'll rent you one.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I've seen your rooms.Drafty.
Hey!
Ventilation is a good thing. Especially if you're active.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I'd like to keep working on handshakes, but I can't.
Yeah, but what Splintie mentioned was a minimal contract with drawing attached. Don't know how she's done things, but I always get up front money and a contractural understanding of payments.
The question was how much contract does one need. Avoid honest misunderstandings is what I shoot for.
I've been party to some very complicated real estate contracts, considerably more money than any contruction I've done. Never, ever assumed that we covered all bases. I don't know if that can be done. That's where good faith comes in. If it's not there, you've got a problem.
Turned out that I did, with that Denver GC, though we had a good contract. I didn't check him out like I ordinarily do with a client. Never made that mistake again. Don't know about you, but I want referrals when I offer to do work. They check me out, I check them out. Everybody's happy, we proceed.
As you discovered, not everybody likes to pay. Often it's a habit. If I get a hint of a problem, I become extremely busy with other work. Nevermind a contract, not worth the risk to me.
My excavation job was paperless, but he was my old real estate broker, the guy who got us to move to Va in the first place. Too blind to read a contract any more. We also started with my needing $500 just to move the equipment and give it a try. Zero guarantee that I could accomplish anything. Very large rocks, you've seen 'em. He chose to gamble the $500. It paid off. I think it was his wife who encouraged him to come up with my bonus. A 25 year dream was being realized.
Which is probably pretty close to what Dovetail experienced. When you can do business this way, you avoid "I love the building, hate the business". Business is not a problem for me, enjoyable actually. Just another part of the job, variety.
For those disinclined, employee is the better position. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
"Ooooooooo...now i have bleacher envy! I remember the old wooden bleachers from my HS - perfect, clear wood, and miles of it."Aw, I already got those.I was close to finishing my shop a couple of years ago. Framed up and dried in, 24 x 32 with attic rated trusses. I was going to floor the attic space with some rough cut lumber from the farm that the powder post beetles had gotten into. Wormy red oak doesn't have quite the same panache as wormy chestnut, you see.But a friend called me from the remodel he was doing at a High School.
"Trust me", he said, "Bring your trailer"I got 42 pieces of bleacher seats and backs, 20 feet long, clear grain, already varnished. 10 inches wide, and flat. Probably 50 years old.To top it all off, my construction adhesive was already in place . . . years and years of accumulation of bubble gum, all different colors / flavors. A veritable gold mine !Greg
<<my construction adhesive was already in place . . . years and years of accumulation of bubble gum>>Hey...i'm eating breakfast, heah!