I’m no plumber, but I’m trying to help out a buddy with a bit of a shower problem.
He’s got an older shower stall, with separate knobs for hot and cold water. Last night somebody tried to shower, but when they spun the knob back to the closed (tight) position, the water didn’t shut off.
Is this just a bad o-ring or something trivial? or is it more likely that the tile will have to be cut back to make a decent repair/replacement?
somebody learn me! thanks much.
Justin Fink – FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
Replies
Those will be single controls that will screw out .
After turning the water off , take the stems to the "real" hardware store in your area or box store and size up the parts or replacements. If you can find an older home owned hardware store , they will have you back and running in a few minutes as they stock the parts. The old guy that died here could have told you what kind it was by looking at it .
Its normally the rubber or neopreme washers on the end of the stem.
Be sure to use a penetrating lubricant or you can ruin the whole deal and give it some time if it resisits movement . Dont overly force it if you can help it .
Look to see if you can gain access behind it . That normally tells you how serious it could be . You dont want to enter from the face side even if it all goes south. However they do make a plate to cover the lager hole , but I dont reccomend that appraoch until your back is againt the wall , like back to back showers.
Tim
Memphest 2006
November 18th
Just talked to my buddy - a plumber is feeding him a line about the safety of the hot water, first degree burns possible, etc - I assume he plans to replace the whole shower mixing valve. He's quoting $1200 for the job - seems a bit extraneous to me, am I wrong?
I mean, this sounds like an issue of a bad seal, or something similar - I'm sure adding a mixing valve makes sense as long as it's open - but it's not a must is it? money is tight for this guy, so I'm trying to help him out if I can. Thanks Tim.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
One of my customers had the same thing. I did just what Mooney said. I shut the water off and took the stem to Lowes, would have gone to two other places but it was after 5PM. Got two new stems and seats. Just like new again. Sometimes it is just the washer, sometimes it is the packing nut that holds the stem in has backed off and does not let the washer bottom out. None of it is rocket science but not manure shoveling/pumping either.
The anti scald valves are a nice thing but you can pretty well prevent that by turning down your water heater to the max recommended 120 deg.
Plumber must have had a boat payment coming up. In fairness it could be that involved to do something like really right and look right. I really doubt his liability for not putting in an anti scald valve if all he did was repair existing mix valve. If he replaced it in toto would probably be against code in most places.
For Mooney: McDonalds did deserve a severe jack up for serving coffee hot enough to almost be boiling. I think they were putting it out the window at around 195 deg. Lid popped off container. I wrote a pretty long explanation of the case a while back. They had had over 700 complaints of injury from their coffee burning people before that. Guess that is better than 1+ mil guys complaining about cold coffee at the jobsite (;-). I was helping design a high dollar aircraft coffee maker at the time and researched it and read about everything available on the subject. This case was nothing like the "your burgers and fries made me triple size" frivolous suit.Bob
Edited 8/29/2006 12:52 pm ET by rasconc
Edited 8/29/2006 1:16 pm ET by rasconc
so I'm thinking worst case, if it's more than the seat or washer, I can just buy two new shut off handles and sweat those into place where the old ones were. Right?Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
You dont sweat them. They have threads. If you mess that up , its emergency sugery to the back wall before the family gets home . They wont have a drop of water since there is no shut off. Thats the big deal with the operation. Dont screw it up. You will really pass the chekered flag when the stems come out.
Tim Memphest 2006
November 18th
sorry for the confusion Mooney - I meant sweat entire handle assemblies in place from behind the shower. Not just threading on new stems, o-rings, washers or whatever - but just plain swapping out the old with the new.
funny you should mention the lack of a shut off valve though - there is none at this point. That might be step one - new shut off valve.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
In the plumber's defense, if I was a profesional bidding the job, I would go the hole nine yards & put in an anti scald valve or else walk away. If someone got seriously burned, there could be lawsuits landing on anyone who ever even came within fifty feet of the shower.
Doing it myself, I'd just go for replacing the stem - and make sure the water heater is set at max of 120.
I certainly don't think the plumber was trying to shaft anyone.
<< I certainly don't think the plumber was trying to shaft anyone. >>
I hear you, and I understand. But I'm just trying to find a way to save my buddy some cash. If it's only a quick fix, or minor surgery I can try to bail him out.
Thanks for the response.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
A mixing valve is operated off a simple limit stop of how much hot water can be used with the relation of cold water . They can be preset by the user after its installed.
Sounds like he wants to replace the shower faucet and do surgery to the wall .
Plumbers should have the parts on the truck to repair it . I would expect a regular service call charge but not to exceed two hours if he made a trip to the supply and parts store. He will go to a plumbing warehouse that doesnt sell to everyone .
Since the owner knows about the disclaimer of hot water , its up to the home owner at least in this area. I can see where the plumber might be under a liability if a child got scalded . Good point I had not considered since the suit againt McDonalds was won over the hot coffee. Hmm.
A reputable handy man might be my next step if this is the way of doing things with the plumbers in the area.
Really , as long as you use a penetrating product and use a mechanics wrench which will grab all sides of the stem, its an easy fix for a homeowner with some mechanical ability . Thats considering the disclaimer to him self and family.
Tim Memphest 2006
November 18th
change the seats while yur at it...
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Justin,I had a similar problem w/ a 1 handeled shower. I didn't believe my wife until I saw it not shut off...=)A quick trip to HD led me to replace the "cartridge" behind the handle and all was well.Perhaps you can find out who made the faucet and call them and ask...HTH,Ed
If the valves are set deep into the wall, then that is what bonnet wrenches are for.