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I’m installing a shower/bath combo. There will be a 4×4 glass block window parallel with the tub. What is the proper way to waterproof? Rough stud, sheetrock, hotmop, and tile, or, rough stud, hot mop, sheetrock, and then tile?
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Give some more details...where is the tile going in relation to the glass block window? Will it have a sill thats tiled, or flush with the finished wall. Tile around window or just up to the sill? Is the shower separate from the tub or is it all tiled....tub and shower?
Dave
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lets see.. its will be a tub/shower combo. the 4'x4' rough opening for the glass block sits parrallel to the tub/shower about 5' from the floor,center of t/s. this is an exterior 2x4 wall. the block are 3" thick which will creat a wet edge of +/- 1" on the exterior or interior depending if where i place the block on the sill. I was told could place the blocks
right on the felt wrapped sill, but I,m inclined to hot mop(or other method) the interior t/s wall and put a counter flashing in the sill than the block??
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JPW, RE: your original question: why, oh why, would you want to introduce sheetrock to the inside of a waterproofed area?
The answer is, of course, you wouldn't. Therefore, your method should be "...sheetrock, hotmop, brown coat, tile..." Of course, you could always delete the 'rock--unless your Bldg. Dept. has something to say about that--and you could go with a tile backer board instead of the float.
Tile backer board will only be as plumb and flat as the wall behind it, so beware. Sure, you could furr it out, but may as well go with the float if you're going to that much trouble.
*Im with Rich on the float if your walls are not plumb. Who wants a tile job ruined by tapered corner cuts?? Here's my "sandwich for a wall float over sheetrock. I comb out a layer of aspahlt gum(roofing tar) with an 1/8" notched trowel. Next is a layer of 15# felt paper, then expaned metal lath or poultry netting(galavanized) stapled to the wall. I would add and extra layer around the window if you are using poutry netting as your setting bed may be a bit thicker on the sill, and jambs. Next float your mortar bed, approximately 1/2" thick. Mix your mortar 1 part cement to 3 parts sand and 1/4 part lime. Mix with a latex additive instead of water. Dave
*Ditto Rich and Creature. A good plaster and lath job just can't be beat for a wet area. Hands down!!I am not a fan of chicken or stucco wire and prefer galvanized metal lath but I think that may be a regional thing. I also prefer a scratch and then a brown(leveling) coat for superior strength and also when the framing is really out of whack. Straighten up most of the deviation with the scratch coat and fine tune with the brown coat. My scratch coat recipe called for less lime than the brown coat but again, that seems to be a regional thing. What I respectfully disagree with is the use of lime along with latex. Lime and latex both act as plasticisers and I can't help but think the lime and latex wouldn't get along together chemically. Although I have never mixed lime and latex, I don't remember any of the latex or SBR manufacturers calling for lime.The mark of a true tile layer(setter) is the hawk and trowel. Leave the cement board on the shelf where it belongs, the DIY big box stores. IMO.On another note. I was having lunch in a McDonalds a few years ago with my crew. We were 21-12 hour days into a lath and plaster job at a food processing plant and were all pretty much worn to the bone, strawberries aside. In the booth across from us a gentleman in his 80's was just getting ready to leave. He was moving slow, back hunched over and fumbling with his 3 point cane. We just couldn't help but notice trying not to appear obvious. As the gentleman got to the door, my lead man Mike got up to open the door for the gentleman. As is common when a young buck shows respect for the elderly, the old man suddenly decided this was a opportunity to shoot the breeze. He turned around and sat down with this sad group of tuckered out tilesetters and apprentices and we had a very nice 1/2 hour conversation about the construction business from the eyes of an old timer. The conversation flowed to the old gentleman's health and physical stature. He aasured us it was a natural thing and was the result of many hard years of very rewarding trade. As he got struggled with his cane and bode us a good day, Mike leaned over the booth and asked the gentleman what his trade had been:He just gave Mike a wink and a grin and said "I was a tilesetter for 62 years".We lost 3 apprentices that week.Jeff
*Thanks for a chuckle! The saddest part is that he was in his 80's AND eating at McDonald's.... Poor guy.
*Jeff:I guess I never thought about the combo of lime and latex together. I just figured it would help with flexibilty, shrinkage cracks, etc. I know you and Rich cringe at this, but Im a self-taught tile setter, and Im always on the lookout for techniques that are new to me. I taught myself how to float walls and floors, and actually enjoy the physical part of it. And I think I'm one of the few in my area that even still consider that option. So, if you guys see any problems with my techniques, please speak up. No offense ever taken. Dave
*Self-taught!!Self deserved!!You just keep on doing the 'good way' whenever you can Dave. Hey man, if I was within driving distance of you, I would just about(maybe-grin!) come be your helper.I just went thru a couple of old bags of photos. You realize, don't you Dave, that most folks have never seen how "mud" floors, "mud countertops" and "floated walls" are done? And in all 'due respect', Bob Vila was raised with a 'hawk and trowel'. Perhaps Mr. Vila is trying to distance himself from his Heritage?ANDREW:?What do you think Andrew? Perhaps this is what the 'old guy at McDonalds' got paid for? Beats an entry in the 'Court House' record doesn't it? Besides, I think he only went to MaccyDees for the 'special sauce', and an opportunity to engage in 'Good Karma' with those who would rather embellish than tear apart.I hear you would like to become a contractor?Lovingly,Jeffro(trailer cort trash should I favour BigMacs?)
*I apologize for the quality(anddownload time) of the scanned photo.What could you expect when they spent a year or two in the ass end of a Chevette? [wide assed grin, wiping the 'perception of McDonalds' from the dashboard].I would certainly hope Andrew wouldn't feel so sorry and disappointed with the 'redeeming value' and 'social stature' of any further examples of the mason trades. I bet he just has to be building some collossal f**king castles worthy of 'lunch at Mortons' in his lifetime, eh?Jeff "Always Hands On...Not Hands Out"
*Creature, actually being self-taught is not inherently wrong/bad. In fact, there are several very fine homes around here which were built and tiled by a self-taught man. They are still standing and look beautiful. Even after 60 years and several earthquakes, there are few, very minor cracks to be found. A post of mine several months ago explained my feelings on being self-taught. To reiterate: what are the chances of this kind of learning/teaching turning out an adequately trained tradesman? You are in the position of learning and teaching...right from the get go. Besides, what method do you then have for ensuring you stay innovative and current on standard building practices? Sure, you could read up on things, attend trade seminars, and the like. My point is that most S-T guys don't do these things. They quite learning when they think they know enough. That is like asking the student if they are competent. How the heck do they know? The student doesn't have enough information to make that descision.Hats off to you that you have brought yourself this far. But don't you ever dare to think you know enough."Because we've always done it this way" is not a reason, but an excuse.
*Rich:You are exactly right...and not having a teacher or other to fall back on as examples are what keeps me thirsty for more knowledge. Whether it is for roofing, tile, framing, or sizing walers for a bridge cofferdam ( something I do in my spare time!) The phrase I cannot tolerate from people is "because thats the way we have always done it..." The day I decide I know enough is the day I turn in my tool belt, tile tools, and calculator. Enjoy reading and learning from your posts.In Hawk and Trowel...Dave
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I'm installing a shower/bath combo. There will be a 4x4 glass block window parallel with the tub. What is the proper way to waterproof? Rough stud, sheetrock, hotmop, and tile, or, rough stud, hot mop, sheetrock, and then tile?