Yesterday we set some SIPS for the first time with the owner/architect there for guidance and direction. Very easy. The experience really changed our view of the buggers.
We framed the deck to be very flat and the plates that the SIPs attach to were dead straight, both of which appear to be quite helpful in a troublefree installation.
At least in our case, the SIPs were made to exact size, while others talk of having to trim a bit here and there with the SIPs intentionally made slightly longer in case the layout isn’t quite right.
Where wire needs to make a corner, as when going from one outlet to another, it’s simply pulled through as the pannels are set. The wire chase is 1-1/2″ in diameter so it’s easy to pull wires.
To lift the pannels an 8′ 2×6 can be screwed to the side with a nylon strap wrapped around it. I angled Torx head deck screws at a 45 degree angle, with one screw for every 50 lbs of pannel weight and had no problems. Better safe than sorry with new stuff.
The bottom plate, which the SIP sits around and is fastened to from the sides, is caulked with 5/8″ bead on top and 3/8″ on the sides. Same for 2×6 ends. Nailing to plates and end 2×6’s is 8d 5″ oc. Where walls meet there’s another 5/8″ bead.
To cinch the pannels together prior to running the 8″ long screws through the sides, we’d screw blocks of wood to the side of the SIPs and draw tight with bar clamps to make sure everything is right. The 8″ screws are placed 2′ oc down the middle of the wall. Very easy with either 18v cordless drill or impact driver.
With a flat deck, the sips sat perfectly plumb. Very easy.
The window and door openings were precut. Also very easy.
The top plate detail is essentially a 2×6 sitting flush, nailed with 8’s, and a second plate ripped to the wall width nailed on top with 16d nails. That’s it. Simple, strong, fast.
Two carpenters with no prior experience could double check dimentions, prep, set and detail one simple wall in about a half hour total. We cut the outlets into the wall for the electrican so it took a little longer. If a crane was waiting on us, a bare minimum of post-set detailing needs to be done so we could do one wall every 15 minutes if no problems crop up.
For simple walls like we find on many projects, SIPs are now on the top of our list. Framing, at least for us, is a necessary evil and this would cut out a great deal of it.
Also this is the quick route to insulation and lots of it. Oh yeah, it should be said that the walls end up being perfectly flat, so those level 4 and 5 sheetrock finishes should be much easier.
It’s also very easy to incorporate SIPs with traditional framing if that’s what makes the most sense, or if the wall layout is likely to change. Just about anything you can put in a traditional wall can either be molded in, or retrofitted to the SIP.
All in all, this looks like a good route for small crews to reduce build times and free up more carpenter time for finish work. Nothing complicated about it.
For what it’s worth…
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn’t rule the world.
Replies
Don, were these Precision Panels' sips? Good to know that they went together well...did you see anything you'd change?
PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
Don, were these Precision Panels' sips? Good to know that they went together well...did you see anything you'd change?
I see you are in Boise. Do you work for PP?
To tell you the truth I didn't see an obvious name on the pannels and don't remember the name on the installation manual. Since we simply stopped over for a day to install the pannels and had the architect there for coaching we didn't pay attention to who made 'em.
We work days (40 hrs) on our main project and leave one day a week for small jobs like this, or to catch up on personal projects.
The one thing that could have been better planned for was ceiling fan mounting. It's my understanding that some?/many?/most? SIP plants will put an extra reinforcment above ceiling fans if you ask for it.
Since we didn't have that, a separate ply reinforcement has to be added between the osb and the ceiling pancake box. Since that drops the pancake box down to where it's no longer easily hidden by the fan it creates a problem. We're in favor of using a heavy gauge of sheetmetal for the reinforcement, but that requires a letter from the engineer.
We ran into another glitch with some exterior stair lights that are rated for use in SIPs, but in the fine print require 3" of space between insulation. Back to the catalog to find something that runs cooler.
The type of joints that are joined with construction adhesive are such that you'll get goo everywhere. As hard as we tried it was impossible to avoid getting significant amounts of residue on ourselves, tools, gloves, everything. A case of qt tubes is used for about every 30' of wall. That's a lot of goop. Next time we'll wear old carhartts regarless of the client.
Otherwise it was really straight forward.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I see you are in Boise. Do you work for PP?
Nope, don't work for 'em, but will be using their panels on upcoming garage / shop project. PP's crew will set wall panels only. If you and/or your crew would be interested in getting trusses and a roof on after the panels go up, I'd like to talk to you. Shoot me an email.
We live on Collister, whereabouts are you? PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
Nope, don't work for 'em, but will be using their panels on upcoming garage / shop project. PP's crew will set wall panels only. If you and/or your crew would be interested in getting trusses and a roof on after the panels go up, I'd like to talk to you. Shoot me an email.
We live on Collister, whereabouts are you?
We have been working on 16th and Sherman for the past year. The current project is the new two story carriage house garage that has roofing felt for house wrap. We'll be there until the end of next week so feel free to stop by if in the neighborhood.
Schedule wise we're booked solid until late in the fall, and if that fits your schedule we'd be interested in considering it. Off the top of my head there isn't anyone worth recommending that has a more open schedule, although carps outside the north end say it's slow in Boise right now.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
8'x20'? Nice! Please go borrow a camera and take some pictures. I just the kncukleheads here in Georgia would get a clue and track-build with SIPS.
Hey Don,
Where these 4x8 Sips, or where they larger, to make walls from as few pieces as possible?
Also, what were you doing to cut outlet holes? plunge cut with a circular saw, and then scoop out the foam with a hot wire knife?
When you say caulk, is that just polyurethane caulk, or is it a specific foam/caulk for SIPs?
Got any pictures?
Might be doing SIPs in the near future, but not a sure thing yet.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Where these 4x8 Sips, or where they larger, to make walls from as few pieces as possible?
Also, what were you doing to cut outlet holes? plunge cut with a circular saw, and then scoop out the foam with a hot wire knife?
When you say caulk, is that just polyurethane caulk, or is it a specific foam/caulk for SIPs?
The OSB used was 8' tall and as long as the walls, 20' in our case. Two carpenters could lift a 15' pannel from the deck and set it by hand if no crane was handy, or if overhead clearance is a problem.
A rottozip was recommended to cut the outlet holes, but from prior experience it seemed the jigsaw would work much better.
Using a rather long coarse bosch blade, it was easy to angle into the OSB and cut the outlet very cleanly. Once the OSB is cut the foam is simply popped out with a flat bladed pry bar and the hole is blown clean with the air hose. Since we were pulling the wires (with the blessing of the electrican), we also foamed the wire chase openings.
I did say caulk, but it's really just a construction adhesive that's compatible with the foam. The way it's used, it seemed like caulk. If we ran out the SIP rep said to use DAP2000.
We didn't get any pics, but the arch. may have.
The good thing is the pannels seem to be cut very square. The bad thing if your deck or layout isn't right, is that the pannels are cut very square. Think of how easy it is to get decking plywood messed up if not put down in a straight line, then multiply the problems with those 8'x20' sizes.
Being 1/4" out of whack will cause a lot of lost time as you figure out what's going wrong and shim the pannels plumb/level.
A transit was used to keep the floor framing level within a 16th although variations in the decking due to adhesive drying and variations in thickness probably add another 16th. It worked out to be nearly ideal. One wall had almost an 8th trimmed off the top plate with an electric hand plane, while the others were level with each other.
We have a simple kitchen wall bumpout to do in a few weeks. A single pannel would fit the opening and be dead flat for hanging cabinets. Not only would it be quick to set into place, but it saves us a few inspections and the hastle of working around the city's schedule on this type of small project.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.