I’m looking at fairly well used skidsteers. I don’t know very much about them.
Right now I’m looking at John Deere 675B. It’s a ’93 with a little over 4500 hours. The Ad says it runs “excellent” and starts easily in the cold weather. It has auxillary hydraulics and an enclosed heated cab. New skins, “Construction Package”, and front and rear work lights. $6K. 4 cylinder diesel engine.
My questions?
1. Was this a decent machine to begin with?
2. Is the asking price fair? It seems to actually be a little bit low. I’ve been watching these machines for about 6 months and don’t see them sell for much lower than 7 or 8K usually
3. Obviously it depends on how the machine has been worked, but what is a ballpark life expectancy in hours for these types of machines before major overhaul work is needed?
4. What to look for besides obvious oil leaks when I go look at this machine?
As always, thanks in advance for your shared experience.
Replies
Give Frenchy a call, he should have some educated info.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
All right, I'm giving this a bump. I know it's only been an hour, but I'm hoping to dig up a little information. I'd like to go look at the machine tomorrow.
I was digging around online and found an unconfirmed statement that these skidsteers were made by New Holland for John Deere and the identical machine was sold under both names. So any information anyone might have on New Holland skid loaders would be helpful too.
" I'd like to go look at the machine tomorrow."u going to drive to scituate in 6" of snow?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
" I'd like to go look at the machine tomorrow."
u going to drive to scituate in 6" of snow?
Sure, why not? The coast is supposed to change over to rain anyway. This is the first winter storm in a long time that I'm not going to be stuck running a plow..... I'm making good use of my "day off". Got an oil change appointment for 8am in fact and then lots of errands to do.
What are you stocking me or something?
I have a New Holland 665 with steel tracks. JD makes a nice machine but that seems like a lot of money for the number of hours.
You think so? Hmmm.... I've really been watching ads for a long time and it seems like the price isn't too far off the mark... maybe even a little low, in fact.
You might want to check with a rebuild shop as 4500 hours may be the point where it starts to need everything. I looked for a used one before I bought mine. Found several machines $5000 to $7000 Checked with the mechanic at the Bobcat dealer and he felt 3000 hours was about as high as he would go if he were to buy one for himself. Granted it depends if the hours were used in sand or rock or a host of other beater tasks. $6000 is a good deal unless you have to put another 6 into it a year later. I paid extra for the hand boom controls as opposed to the standard foot controls, love it, smooth operation, micro control on the bucket and forks. Mine has steel tracks, would not want to be with out them for the kind of dirt work I do.
Geez, that's not good news at all. Most anything under 3000 hours is out of my price range. Looks like it might come down to rolling the dice or doing with out.
I wouldn't give up on it just be cautious. My neighbor picked up a mini excavator with 4000 hours on it that looked like a little old lady used it in a flower garden. I used it in october for a weekend and can't believe he found one that nice.
I don't know anything about skidsteers but...
How are you planning to use it? I'm asking both because I think it might be helpful to those who have advice and also because I'm curious.
Are you expanding your business's offerings?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Light duty is the plan Jon. The main reason for buying it is that I've got a ton of landscape work to do in the spring at my own house. None of it is too hard... just very spread out across my lot. Things like spreading loam, mulch, and stone.
I'd like to just have deliveries of this type of material made to my house, and then I can chip away at the work myself since most of it is just grunt landscaping that I can handle.
I figured now would be a good time to buy because it seem that the landscapers flood the market this time of year with their used machines. If I buy it now, I'll have for snow removal on my big azz driveway and parking area, as well as for clearing out my jobsites which would be fantastic. While the guys are shoveling off the house, I could be creating a nice open work area. When the storms come, I always use the forklift to condense the lumber as best possible and then tarp. Might as well finish the job.
I also have a good friend who is a GC and frequently moans about renting machines or having to wait until his excavator can free up a machine when he needs one. So there's one guy I could rent it to occasionally to off set the cost since the machine will see a lot of idle time anyway.
They seem to have a good resale value too, so when I'm done with the landscaping next fall I could probably come very close to getting most of money back if I decide it's not worth keeping.
http://www.equipmentlocator.com/asp/browse/con/4/loc/na-en/Industry/ce/type/3/make/john+deere/model/viewall/pg/4/
http://www.ferdosigroup.com/forestry.htm
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
I don't know anything at all about that particular machine, but the price does seem a little low.
As for how many hours they will withstand, it all depends. I've seen machines beaten half to death in 500 hours and machines with 1,200 hours that looked and ran almost new.
I would ask if I could take it on a demo, dig with it, and give it a workout.
Check all of the pins for slop, check out how the motor acts from a cold start, watch your smoke color at startup and hot under a load.
Pick up each side of the machine, see how much slop is in the chaincase (if this one even works that way).
Check all of the controls to see if the valves feel good.
I'd ask for service records if available, and oil analysis on all of the compartments. It's only $15 per sample and worth every dime.
That's just the kind of info I was looking for man. Thanks a lot. I'm thinking of taking an excavator buddy of mine along when I look at it too.
You're welcome, glad to be of help.
That seems like a lot of money for the amount of hours that thing has on it. And I'm obviously not a fan of green equipment. (-:In gerneral, I'd say the bigger the better with skid steers. Since you're mainly talking about light duty around the house with this one, that may not apply. I'm not familiar enough with JD equipment to know how big this one is. But for instance - Get a smaller one and put forks on it, and you'll find that it sometimes won't pick up what you want it to pick up. The hydraulics don't bypass - It just stands the thing up on it's nose. Or it picks the stuff up, then tips over forwards and dumps everything once you start moving. Not that anything like that has ever happened to me, of course. (-:My guess is that once you get the thing, you'll find all kinds of things to do with it. You'll have it on jobsites doing all kinda of things. So it might be worth looking at a better, lower hour machine.
If practice makes perfect, and nobody's perfect, why practice?
That's good advice too Boss. Thanks. I'd love to get a better machine, but unfortunately 6K is about all I really want to tie up one of these things. That may very well just come down to accepting the fact that I can't afford one right now. If 6K won't get me something serviceable for the odds and ends I'd like to do with it, then I may just have to hire a landscaper to do knock it out.
It's not that I mind paying for work that I can do...... it's more that I mind paying for work that I'd enjoy doing myself. This stuff falls in that category.
Believe me, I understand about not being able to afford more expensive machinery. I go to farm auctions frequently and see all kinds of stuff I'd love to have. Maybe buying this one is a good idea. Then if I'm right - And you do end up using it a lot more than you expect - You can always upgrade to a better one when you're in a position to do so. I'd be willing to bet money that once you have the thing you'll wonder how you got along without it.
There is no difference between a wise man and a fool when they fall in love.
Oh that's right.... you don't like the green machines..... looks like I'm taking back your Christmas present....
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Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
ROAR!!! That's pretty good Boss. Touche'
Diesel,
You have that beautiful Cat telehandler and now you want a skid steer. I'll trade you.
For the amount of work you say your going to do with the skid steer why don't you just put a bucket on the Cat?
I'd like to know because my plan was to try and find a reasonably priced handler this year and eliminate my skid steer.
Couple reasons. First is that while telehandlers are capable of dirt work with a GP bucket, it's really not what they're designed for. I NEED my forklift to make a living and I really don't want to risk bending a boom section or something stupid like that while trying to make my yard pretty. Maybe that's being overly protective, but it's not my only reason either.
Another reason and probably the biggest reason is that I'm going to chip away at the landscaping work at my house. While a Bobcat can be trailered with a pick-up truck, my forklift needs to be moved with a big dump and a lowbed trailer usually to the tune of about $65 an hour. Not very cost effective to bring the telehandler home every weekend... even if I could find someone to tote it back and forth for me.
The forklift is also a pretty big machine. Kinda like using a sledge when a fly swatter would do. I'd really trash the good parts of my yard moving material to the part I'm fixing up. Then there's the septic system. No good driving 20,000lbs over that. In fact, I'm not even sure a skidsteer can drive over it, but I can certainly make it around it with a skidsteer. Then there's the power, cable, and phone lines on the other side of the property. So manueverability comes into play too.
So I could spend about $2K on a bucket for the telehandler... factor in the machine moves, possible damage, and the tough resell on the bucket when I'm done, and I figure I'm just better off getting the right tool for the job.
I'd love to have a GP bucket for my forklift, don't get me wrong. It'd be great for moving snow and trash around on site. But it won't fit in my truck and there's no room for it with the trailers that move my machine. I leave my work platform attached to the forks so that's out. I suppose I could drop it into the back of the dump truck and then reattach the platform before loading the machine on the trailer. But I'm not always present when they move the machine and all that shuffling around would mean that I have to be there. Sometimes I can't get my machine over to a new site until the second day or so if both my excavator buddies are really busy. Other times they give me a day that they'll move it, but can't give me a time. We've moved the machine at 10:00 at night before.
Jumping in a little late on this one. @ present we have a Case 70 XT paid $24k for it with 200hrs on the clock ( inc forks & broom) Don't think I would buy a skidsteer with more then 2000 hrs on it unless I knew the history.
I do a lot of work (basement finish) for the owner of a company that runs over 60 skidsteers with 90 employees. They claim that the New Holland our the best for the long haul. The Case has been good to us & have also had good luck with Bobcat (943 is a Beast).
I hate payments as much as the next guy but, how about getting something with light hrs & some HP. If you get a small Skid after a few time on it your going to wish it was bigger.
Good Taxman & your Business plan shoud be able to get you the right Skidsteer,but it might take a bit longer to have it paid for in full. In the meantime I bet you could make it work out for your home & business plans.
Give 1-877-GO-4-BOBCAT a call & see how much $ a Skid with lite hrs runs around here.
Now I'm just totally confused.
The guy with the 6K JD isn't returning my emails anyway. Looks like I've got some more time to think about this.
I'm just totally confused
what else is new---------------------
Swimming through the ashes of another life, no real reason to accept the way things have changed. Wrapped in guilt, sealed up tight.
Hey.... least I admit it.
I'm leaning towards this idea and it all depends on what something like this might cost, so right now it's still just an idea.
I'm thinking about trading in my John Deere LT150 lawn tractor. It's not even a year old, but it's the smallest of the lawn tractors that JD makes excluding the junk sold at Home Depot.
Then I might get a bigger tractor that has a loader attachment as well as cutting capabilities. I've got an acre to mow.... not huge, but definitely still need a riding mower. These tractors also can be outfitted with a snowblower attachment as well as various tow behind carts/wagons.
Here's the one I'm thinking of:
http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/HO/servlet/com.deere.u90785.cce.productcatalog.view.servlets.ProdCatProduct?pNbr=0140LV&cNbr=HO_CUT_HO&sCName=2000%20Series%20Compact%20Utility%20Tractors&tM=HO
I'm going to look into this some more and make sure the available attachments are up to the tasks I'm considering.
If the price is right and everything works well it could probably pay for itself if you rent it to your GC friends.
At almost every chance ours was rented to some concrete guys who burned the tires off with all the turning they do on paved roads. For them it was worth it to rent our machine for nearly what they could rent a new machine for because we gave them a key and they could pick the machine up in a moments notice 24 hrs. a day if they simply called the boss first.
If you need tires take a look at the recaps. They saved us probably half over new and wore about the same.
I've heard of skidsteers with bent "arms" from raming it into something hard, like trying to break up concrete or hiting a big rock. It seems that hiting something once by accident isn't nearly as bad as an operator who makes a habit out of it. Bending an arm 1/16" is one thing, but doing the same a few dozen times and the machine is in deep trouble.
And that's about everything I know about the little buggers.
They are fun to mess around with. :-)
Don
You mentioned busting up concrete with a skid steer. I did this not too long ago, and think I've found a good way to do it. Busting up the slab I was working with didn't seem to work by bashing it with the bucket. So I ended up picking the slab sections up as high as I could with the skid steer, then dropping them on another piece of the slab. That seemed to work well. Obviously you have to make sure you don't dump the concrete out of the bucket into your lap. And the pieces can bounce around a bit when they hit the ground. But it's sure works better than just raising the bucket and hitting the concrete.
Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all the unhappy people. [despair.com]
What are you going to be using the machine for?
I can't speak to which model does what, how long they last, or if the glow plugs on JD are better than brand X.
I have worked on two crews with two JD skid steers and there is a world of difference between the two. The newer a 2000 250 and the older was very similar if not the exact model you mentioned.
We put over 1500 hrs. a year on the 250 using it on all stages of construction. The controls of the new machine were very easy to operate and very easy for inexperienced carpenters to learn. With forks it was used to shuttle lumber and materials. For the extensive use of logs that our projects had the forks were essential. We picked up an extendable boom that was used for placing logs, lower trusses, and anything that required lifting. Again, the fine controls made this type of work productive.
The machine's weight with bucket and aux weights was over 10,000 lbs. if memory serves. It fit perfectly in a 14' gooseneck dump trailer with an inch or so to spare width wise. The great thing about this machine was it had a decent amount of lifting capacity and unloading supply trucks was uneventful.
During winter the unheated cab was miserable. We picked up a set of tracks that fit over the tires, but they required the optional ice cleats to be worth a damn in icy conditions. The tracks were fantastic in loose dirt and the decomposed granite that was common on site.
Maintenance was done almost daily with a squirt of grease here or there and there were never any problems or downtime with the machine except for a few broken hydraulic hoses that were easy to fix.
For loading dirt, it was only slightly underpowered, but by skidsteer standards it was pretty good.
In cold weather it started reliably down to about 0.
For digging septic systems, foundations, etc. we would rent a backhoe-size trackhoe for $750/7 days with unlimited hours. For these projects the skidsteer was used to help move the loose dirt that was easy to get to, increasing the trackhoe's productivity. Working 10 hours a day for a week, it was impressive how much dirt the two machines could move for a very reasonable cost.
The 675 was used hard and put away wet at nearly 10,000 hrs. Mostly a dirt mover, it was also rented out to some concrete guys. The controls are at least a generation behind the newer models and it was a chore to do the fine work with that machine that was possible with the newer 250 above. It was uncomfortable to drive and much harder to teach new drivers to operate effectively. It was also lighter and didn't have the lift capacity or hp of the 250.
It also had a tic in a hydraulic control that would slowly inch the machine along without any input. If you didn't lock the brake it would creep along like a lawn sprinkler tractor.
At full extension with a load of any size the bucket would slowly drop because of some other worn out hydraulic control. While not OSHA textbook material, being able to lift a load to roof level and turn the machine off to return the carpenter to the roof is very handy. With the droopy bucket it was impossible unless the roof would support the weight of the bucket and load.
Speed was difficult when loading because the hydraulics would behave in strange and unpredictable ways at times, despite being looked at by a number of equipment mechanics. Efficient movement of a lot of dirt is really dependant on the operator's ability to maintain some kind of rhythm, which wasn't happening. The fix was expensive so unless it went belly up we were told to simply make do.
Once in a while a grease zerk would break off and that pivot pin wouldn't get grease until I drove it. The pin would freeze, breaking the retaining bolt. A new bolt, replacement zerk, and a few hours of cussing would get us back in business.
The unheated cab was miserable when the temps fell. The machine always started, in all weather, every time.
With a full bucket of dirt it was a grunt to get the bucket up to the top of our small dump truck. For loading dirt this machine was half as productive as the 250.
All and all, the piece of crap skidsteer was worlds better than not having one and it paid for itself years ago. The newer 250 could be used for many more things because of it's ease of control, larger size and general well being.
For contractors who build from the foundation up I can't imagine not having at least a crappy old skidsteer for backfilling, hauling trash to the dumpster, plowing snow, hauling equipment and materials around the site.
For builders who work on larger houses on larger lots or who build on sites that are less than level and require more dirt to be herded around, the best skidsteer seems like money well spent considering rental fees and how often it's helpful to have a machine handy.
Good shopping,
Don
Edited 12/8/2005 10:19 pm ET by IdahoDon
Don, thanks very much for sharing all that. I'm not looking to do much finesse work at all. Just moving loam, mulch, and a little stone. Probably some snow too while I have it. None of it for paying accounts.... the machine will be for my own personal use and I'll probably unload it next fall.
No substitue for experience and I appreciate you sharing yours.
A couple of years ago I bought a cheap older Case 1835B skidsteer - mid 80's I believe. I paid $4400 for it, but I attended several auctions and waited until I found one where not too much bidding was happening. Mine had new tires, which run a couple of hundred bucks each. It also lacked the quick attach mechanism which cost me another hundred bucks or so (hard to find but not too expensive.) The wheels were rusted, however, so I had to have them sand blasted so to eliminate the slow leaks. The big thing I foun about the older skid steers at auction was that many of them did not track true, whereas mine did. It is a real hassle if you have to traverse much distance to constantly putting in steering corrections. I probably looked at 50 or so older skid steers and almost all had what appeared to be good hydraulics in the lift mechanism, which surprised me. So far, parts for mine have been generally available, although I haven't tried to buy very many parts so far. Oh, and I always buy the service manual, which for this model came to about $150...
email Hubcap ...
or email me for his number.
He knows quite a bit about running ... and breaking ... them.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Seems everyone has a differnt opinion based on the ones they've run most often. So Ive had a John Deere and New Holland.... in my book they are the same. Both great machines. No bells and whistles... just good work horses. I dont think you can go wrong with that JD. When buying a older, used machine, its alway nice to also make sure you know a good guy who can work on them... at least let him check it out before you buy.
but thats just my opinion. If i were to ever landscape again... new holland would be my pick.
good luck
New Holland used to build skid steers for john deere, hence the reason they looked pretty much alike. At that time the only real difference was JD subsituted their own engines which in my opinion made them the better machine. I'm not really sure when JD decided to build the units themselves. I bought a New Holland right after the switch however for the life of me I don't recall what year I bought my NH665. Guessing at 98.
4500 hours is alot of time for any piece of equipment. I've owned skidsters, backhoes, dozers, and all I can tell you is once the hour clock starts getting up there, repair bills are not cheap.
I would check into something without so much time, as you have stated price is a issue, which I certainly can relate to. Alot of equpiment can be had thru dealers with alot of creative finiancing. I don't own any equipment now but if I was to purchase with the perameters that you have stated for use I would look into a small tractor 4 wheel drive with 3 point hitch, much more versatile (ie: backhoe, york rake, box scaper, post hole digger etc.) Not that you can't get all the implements for a skidder, however when they are in use you have no bucket for moving material unless you keep switching.
I use to be a landscape architect/ contractor and found that tractors are a bigger bang for the buck. Also skidders are not worth a damm in mud or sand unless they have tracks, which reak havac on the rubber.
About 7 years ago I bought a used D3 Cat, I had rented it several times over past years and knew it was well taken care of and not abused. At the time it had 5000 hours on it and the owner just put 10 grand into it for a new undercarriage. Within two months of me owning it I put a grand into it for a simple stearing valve not counting a days work on my part. The following year I sold it to a local excavator who within months, ended putting another 4 grand into what we all assumed what a peach of a machine. I'm not sure of the numbers but a mechanic once told me that 5000 hours is the equivelant of 200,000 miles on a pickup, the engine might be fine but everything else falls apart.You are right about the mud and sand, I equiped my machine with steel tracks right from the getgo, in mud it will carry a load where a man can't walk.
Exactly any time that hour clock gets high, repair bills start to reflect the time on the clock. Equipment companys in my experience jump thru all kinds of loops and hoops to get you into equipment with good and favorable finiancing, lease buys, no winter payments etc.
I see that your just across the striats from me, so I imagine your getting some use of that skidder with tracks moving that white stuff.
Surprisingly the tracks are not very good in snow, to much floatation. If the snow has any kind of ice underneath it's almost useless. It's somewhat better without the tracks but I really don't use it to remove snow since I have a 4x4 kabota tractor/snow blower that does the job very well.
Blowing it is the only way to go, alot less drift build up. Where ya at in the U.P. If you ever come down to see how us trolls live on the other side, give me a shout.
Live in the armpit of the UP, Munising. Currently building a staircase to be delivered to Petosky early January. I also deliver lumber to Highland as well as have a camp in Atlanta. Where you at?
Petoskey, just up the hill from Bay Harbor
Cool, what is it you do there? I'm expecting my install to take 3 days maybe I'll look you up and buy you a beer or a cup of coffee.
GC and little bit of everything, mostly trim carpenter, and raise my younguns. Coffee is good, but do like the pop with the foam on top.
Call me in advance and I'll meet ya 231 487 9053 home 231 881 0476 cell
God bless
Kevin
Consider it done, sometime right after the holidays.
Works for me, see ya after holidays
D..I know that you and I are honest people but not every one is.Two out of three Bobcats that Ihave been on in the last five years has had the hour meter disabled and did not work.When I questioned the owner over a beer he said it was no problem to have a service tech come out and "fix" it when he was ready to sell.
For what it's worth go to a dealer and drink lots of thier coffee and eat lots of their dounuts pay the sales commission and be leery of buying from an ad. If you have the time tell them what your looking for and I promise they will call you ,with their net working capibilities they will find you a match and look forward to your business in the future. Good luck and start thinking about that new trailer.