I’ve been asked to help re-do these porches. Columns and trim are rotting, arches don’t visually fit…that whole corner is just plain funky. PT lower deck seems sound, and will stay.
I’ve got some ideas on how to remove and replace the columns, but I’ve never actually done that on a two story corner. Times being what they are, I’d like to get this work, but not have it bury me!
I would highly appreciate the input from the more experienced of the BT braintrust.
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill I would set him in chains at the top of the hill Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille He could die happily ever after”
Replies
Not sure where you are stuck. First remove old trim scrap or save as necessary. Look at what you've got. Next support corner. That being a structural issue I'd invert the basic re-mod wisdom of top down to building bottom up. Build temp supports for second storey+. Replace old supports for second floor+. Everything as plumb, level and in consequence = square, as possible. Emphasize strength but with an eye for what it will eventually look like. Second storey repeat, replace floor as needed. Trim, scribe, caulk, sand, etc.. to final finish product going top down. It's paint grade, be thankful but pretend it's not.
Several issues will come up. Does the corner sag? What has that done to the roof. Is floor sloped for runoff? How does it look from the street? How does it look from the other side? Will this railing really
hold 250+lb. drunk uncle. Can kid get head stuck?.....
Remodeling is far more challenging than new construction. That's why we do it;~}
Edited 6/19/2009 5:29 pm ET by habilis
Edited 6/19/2009 5:32 pm ET by habilis
That's a lot better than my idea to knock the columns out and shove in new posts reeeeaaal fast!http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
That's a lot better than my idea to knock the columns out and shove in new posts reeeeaaal fast!
Like me, you watched more than your share of Warner Bros cartoons, growing up.
Aye wuz a Popeye fan.http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
Well, if you go with your first idea, post it; it'll be a hit either way.
Rent scaffolding.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
And then knock the posts out?http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
Support the second floor with temporary posts. . . then support the roof with temporary posts, likewise.
Am I missing something?
I think I am?http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
I'm probably not catching on. . . Grab some 2x4s, make an "L", put yer temporary posts on the sturdy PT first floor, and support the second floor.Put an identical set of posts bearing directly above the lower posts, extending from the second floor to the roof. Knock out your existing columns. Rebuild at your leisure.Edit: I really might not be getting it. . . I've been drinking. . .
Edited 6/19/2009 7:52 pm ET by Biff_Loman
The 1st level looks sound, the 2nd is suspect... and I've never done dis<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
Wylie Coyote here's goin' give it a try.
You say that the lower deck is sound. One assumes that means everything underneath is sound as well.
And you say that everything from the lower deck up to the siding above the 2nd floor porch is suspect.
I believe I'd cut one hole in the corner of the 2nd floor deck so as to allow a temporary column/post (6X6 maybe), supporting the corner of the roof down to the lower deck, to be angled into place from above.
I'd lay a couple of 2x12's across the lower deck, perpendicular to it's joists, as a carrier for the column. Same under the roof. You'll also need a big bottle jack.
With that column in place, you should be able to tear down everything in between, then replace it all before removing the column and finishing the 2nd floor decking.
Edited 6/22/2009 4:42 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
I'm not sure I follow you on the cutting the hole in 2nd fl deck... but, after I eats me spinach, I'm thinking take the trim off the 2nd floor & arches to see what we've got.If the 2nd fl framing looks good, get the weight off the 1st fl corner & replace.The 2nd fl is sketchier. It might get a membrane floor, or it might get closed in and finished. Not sure if that's relevant.From the water damage I can see on the rest of the house, and the porches looks like some bad afterthought, I'm worried about jacking points. Might be nothing, just thought some one may have done this without ordering anything from Acme<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
I'm not sure I follow you on the cutting the hole in 2nd fl deck
It's like dis Popeye. Yuz needs ta support the roof, right? So's yuz can dismantle whaddeva it is dhat's rotten, right? Including the 2nd floor deck, right?
Duh temporary column needs to be plumb so where should it go? Through the second floor deck. Which requires dhat yuz cuts a hole in it.
Yuz needs to place the supporting column somewhere near the outside corner of the house, going down through the 2nd floor deck, all duh way down to the ground floor deck, which is what's solid.
Edited 6/19/2009 9:28 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Now I gotcha... thing is we want to save the 1st floor ceiling, I think... but, just in case, what kind of temporary post do you think Acme would send me to support the roof, and I'm not falling for noodle again.http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
Nail 2x4 or 2x6 into an "L". Should do. Make sure it's plumb.
Yuz understands beddah when yuz listens wid yur inner ear, not yuz defunct mind. ~!~
P.S. Savin' the ceiling is a bit counter productive, in my estimation.
Edited 6/19/2009 9:54 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
<Yuz understands beddah when yuz listens wid yur inner ear, not yuz defunct mind. ~!~>All this time I wuz hoping it didn't show, rats.http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
but, just in case, what kind of temporary post do you think Acme would send me to support the roof, and I'm not falling for noodle again.
Good one! It's been so long since I saw Wylie in action, that I-uh disremembered the Acme mail order reference, the first time through that post.
No doubt that anything from Acme would either telescope out of the box to grand proportions or unfold similarly, like a tent pole.
Both would wait until you had put them in place and were proceeding to demolish the old framing, before beginning to sway at the center, then collapse under the weight that they were clearly not meant to bear.
Needless to say, said collapse would be accompanied by clouds of dust whilst leaving you under the rubble.
Edited 6/20/2009 11:28 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Yeah, but I'd just blow on my thumb, and get back to work<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
K, I'm feeling, uh. . . smarter.My idea depends on on the second floor being sound. If it is, I wouldn't even bother with a bottle jack. I'd just cut the post very slightly long and sledge it into place.And yeah, I'd lay down some 2x10 or 2x12 across the joists, otherwise you'll have an exciting incident of punching right through the floor.
Don't worry, I'm talking to Wylie Coyete... like that's going to work out!I've got jacks, and think I know how to use them... more heads are better than none, though<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
Porches location and size look original to me.
What I don't think is original is the room on the 2nd. story that occupies part of what I think was originally 2nd. story porch area. I think the 2nd. story porch originally also had no arches, and that the details above the arches up to the soffit are all new.
Guessing it had a simple rectangular beam running right under the soffit.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I think you're right about that room, but the porches are constructed so weirdly I think they were remuddled, too.The other weird thing is that every thing has to go by an architectural review board... I'm thinking this the house that started it?http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
Heck I think it the arches look fine. I would suggest some stripping and a good dosing of Smith and Co. and call it good.
http://www.smithandcompany.org/
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
I don't think it looks that bad... except for those shutters.
When you put up that post to support the roof, my only suggestion is to make sure that "sound PT deck" will support that new point load...
I agee. It's close enough to the ground so I could set up a couple of A frames.http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
I would consider hiring out some scaffolding to be built on the sides of the home, and using aluminum beams to carry the roof load to the scaffold sections.
Now, you have the whole corner to work on without posts in the way. Set the scaffold up right, and you have a place to work from, too.
You also remove any potential lurking structural issues in that PT deck in supporting the new point load... and putting the post through the second floor deck.
Undoubtedly more money upfront, but the payoff will come in working efficiency throughout the job.
It's also a rental, very poorly maintained... cost is an issue with the client... shoulda thought about that while saving all that maintenance money, eh?http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
Shoulda coulda woulda.
Pay now or later :)
or go for a lo ball<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
My thouyght exactly. Cost a few bucks for the scaffold rent, but if done properly you end up with a nice platform to work off, and it's safe."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Have you seen slateman's thread on staging? LOLhttp://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
Hey don't be laughing at my rugged stagings !!!
I like the scaffold support idea but once it's in place you're stuck with it there. That's OK if you have a complete plan for doing each phase of the work, step by step.
Knowing the truth of "the best laid plans"...and being a firm believer in Murphy's Law I'd rather be able to build or move scaffolding to suit the situation.
This thread has LOTS of tips... maybe one to help you.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=73188.1
A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
Hey Snort ~!~. How's about beginning a new photo thread on this project? It's a good subject/job for many BTers and not difficult as a photo subject.
I'll try, if the job actually happens. Taking pictures and working... I'm always forgetting to do one or the other.http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
Holly -
Here's what I think I'd do:
Remove the curved trim at the top porch to expose the beams. Run a diagonal temp beam underneath them, protruding outside the porch a foot or two and jack that from the ground.
Here's some "jacking boxes" I've made in the past:
View Image
This uses 4x4 jacking posts and ripped 2x6 and 2x8 members. The "box" is free floating, but allows a more comfortable jacking position and won't let the jack fall over. I typically use metal strapping or simpson connectors when assembling it. I also use a metal plate between the upper jacking member and the top of the jack. It can be assembled in place by one man fairly easily.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Hey! I like that box idea. That's similar to jacking up the post and then bracing it to the 2X12 jacking pad from just above the jack with 45'd 2X4's.
I like that, I like that alot... my insurance company will probably like it too!http://www.tvwsolar.com
Now I wish I could give Brother Bill his great thrill
I would set him in chains at the top of the hill
Then send out for some pillars and Cecil B. DeMille
He could die happily ever after"
I think I saw something similar that gave me the idea back in the FHB early years.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image