QUESTION: Would you trust the construction techniques and walk (crawl?) out on this?
(Anyone out west familiar with this project?)
GRAND CANYON SKYWALK:
* Scheduled to open Jan. 1, 2006 Hualapai Indian Reservation
* Juts about 70 feet into the canyon, 4000 ft above the CO River
* Will accommodate 120 people comfortably
* Built with more than a million pounds of steel beams, and includes dampeners that minimize the structure’s vibration.
* Designed to hold 72 million pounds, withstand an 8.0 magnitude earthquake 50 miles away, and withstand winds in excess of 100 mph
* The walkway has a glass bottom and sides…four inches thick
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DUM SPIRO SPERO: “While I breathe I hope”
Replies
It'll probably have some bounce to it, but it would be easy to engineer something to cantilever that far. From the drawing it looks like the profile is fairly thin, but I'm sure they worked it out. It has more dead load from the materials than anything else.
As someone who has backpacked the inner canyon many times I think that's a really sorry thing to issue a building permit for. There are already enough helicopters and planes buzzing around and ruining the ambiance. There are plenty of places where overweight lazy tourists can pull their air-conditioned Winnebagos over in a scenic overlook for a view. But you didn't ask about that...
i 'm more opinionated... IT'S AN A B O M I N A T I O N ..." we judge ourselves by our motives, and others by their actions........."
Since it is on tribal land - is a building permit even required? (honestly...I dunno!)
well, I've not had your opportunities and times spent in the Grand Canyon and had intended to spend some time in that area in 2006 so this had caught my eye. Now with your info re how the place is abuzzing, I'm rethinking that a bit.
I am seriously not sure I like the idea of clear floor under my feet and looking straight down. Still mulling it over. Funny that, since I typically have no problem with heights, at all!DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
I've been in many areas of the canyon and both rims, on foot. They have narrow fly zones where the choppers and planes are allowed to go. I always talk to the backcountry rangers and find out how those overlay the routes we hike. It is possible to feel incredibly alone and isolated out there, especially on the north rim side where access is via difficult or nonexistent trails.
If you have not seen the canyon, you have gotta go, it is just a mind-blower. The 'corridor' trails allow fairly easy access to some very grand places. Authors like George Steck have guidebooks on getting to some of the more remote spots, which are equally grand. Do not miss it!
Hate to break the news here Dave but I found this on the snopes.com site about the proposed catwalk...
"They've been able to exploit their natural beauty and become a tourist destination," Esquerra said. "What we've normally seen in the past between the tribes and national Park Service is like the Blackfeet in Montana appealing to get free access to Glacier National Park. But the Hualapais have a new and aggressive attitude to develop markets on their own land." The Hualapai's Grand Canyon Resort Corp. already has completed the first phase of an adjoining Indian village, where Navajo, Hopi, Hualapai and Havasupai craftsmen constructed traditional dwellings surrounding an amphitheater that hosts daily Native American dances. The first phase of a nearby Old West village also has been completed, and plans are on the drawing board to construct a tram from the canyon rim to the floor. Ditto for an anticipated high-end resort and a campground, which will house about <!---->50 cabins<!----> and be able to accommodate <!---->200 campsites<!----> and <!---->200 recreation<!----> vehicles.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
But still - I have to look at this map of the area and HOPE, really do, that some of it is left untouched...and one can enjoy the natural beauty without the man made structures, noise, and other visual interferences.
View ImageDUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
If you have not seen the canyon, you have gotta go, it is just a mind-blower.David, I had to come back to add what you did...it's one of those things that Wonderful World of Disney just couldn't do justice to...makes your jaw drop, for a while, too...immense. Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
I have been down the canyon twice, once in 2000 on a 14 day commercial raft trip, and last summeron an 18 day private trip. Saw god in the canyon. It was unbelievable experience to be out of society for all that time, and to see one of the great wonders of the world. We saw incredible sunsets, touched rocks 500 million years old ( take that intelligent design supporters), ate amazing food, ran incredible rapids, lived on, and took care of the river that took care of us. A truly life changing experience. Everyone should do it once, but, if you go, you will go again, and again, and again, and when you are not on the river you will be thinking about it.
At the end of the first trip, we took out at a place called diamond creek. All of us where just starting to adjust with the idea of wheeled vehicles (to take us back to "civilization") when a Hummer came racing down to the river. A bunch of tourists tumbled out, looked around, and after about 20 minutes the driver (tour guide) says
"everybody have enough?"
and they all piled back in and took off.
We all stood there speechless and flabergasted.
I have only spent a month in the canyon and am tryijng to figure out how soon I can get back. A professor at Arizona State University hiked 30000 miles, and felt he havd not spent enough time down canyon.
So, the good news of the skywalk is that even less people who dont appreciate the canyon will go in, but those that care might have to see that abomination, Building on sandstone is a VERY dangerous venture with the periodic monsoons, so I have high hopes that the canyon might self correct that problem.
One thing I am convinced of: the impermanence of the structures of man.In the life of the Grand Canyon, this period will barely warrant a footnote.The heck, you say?
I am guessing that it would be easier to engineer than the X-Scream thrill ride at the Stratosphere tower in Las Vegas (which recently stalled with six people dangling over the edge of the building some 866 feet up). I don't know that it would be less safe than a lot of bridges (and probably no more of a problem to build) and there would certainly be more structure under foot than in an airliner. I worked high scaling at 60 feet but chose not to move on to the next project at about 600 feet. As someone said: "hey, if you land on the rocks from 60 feet you're gonna be just as dead as you would be from 600 feet." Yeah, but you have an instant more to think about it before you go kersplat...The visual element of the transparent underfoot structure is a definite problem for some of us. I used to inspect industrial equipment and walking over expanded metal catwalks at several hundred feet off the ground was definitely unnerving for me. I even have trouble in some of the elevators with glass extending down to the floor level such as a couple in San Francisco. I have looked over the edge at the Space Needle in Seattle without problems so the impression of the space is definitely more critical than the reality. I doubt that they would have problems getting people to wander out there given all those that like to go up Half Dome and similar climbs as well as all those loving roller coasters and other such "entertainment". As for the environmental values, I certainly think it would border on sacraledge to build it. However, it was not that many years ago that Glenn Canyon, an area probably even more scenic than the Grand Canyon, was dammed creating Lake Powell. I would guess that all the power boaters these days would fight tooth and nail to keep from tearing down the dam to allow Glenn Canyon to eventually reclaim its Glory. Plus, some time after that, we came very close to having part of the Grand Canyon dammed to provide electricity to Las Vegas and Los Angeles. Scenic beauty is not not particularly important to a lot of people when money is involved...
Not with 120 people on it.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'
No one will provoke me with impunity
As long as I'm not one of the 120 I dont see a problem with it!
and if it was just YOU? would you go out on it?DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
ya, but I use to do stupid stuff on ladders too.heh heh
'Nemo me impune lacesset'No one will provoke me with impunity
Yea.
Tim
LOVE your faith in engineers and contractors! DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
maybe-
if someone was holding a gun to my head, and making me walk the plank.
that's what it looks like to me, anyway.
Looks pretty cool to me. Only been out there once, early 70s, snuck in, camped where the bears were supposed to eat us...good thing we didn't have chipmunks in our pockets<G>I am so cheap, though, if a stroll out there costs more than a buck, you're gonna have to tell me about it, lol Hey, pocket doors can't come off the track if they're nailed open
I am so cheap, though, if a stroll out there costs more than a buck, you're gonna have to tell me about it, lol
Well if THAT isn't a BUCK...SNORT kinda comment, don't know what is! ROAR!DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
and making me walk the plank.
OMG! hadn't noted THAT similarity before - and now cannot get it outta my head!
Kinda like, few months ago in driving to NLR, a passenger in car remarked how the Clinton Library looks "just like an elevated double wide (trailer)" and now every time I pass it - that's how I see it! LOL!DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
Well, I'm not real good with heights- that walk would definitely be a white knuckler.
If someone could drag me out there <G>
Just looking at the artist conception makes me cringe, why would somebody build something like this over a natural wonder.
Nah, I wouldn't go on it not because I don't trust the engineering, I have to ask myself what's the point?
Besides for $25 I could have a pretty decent dinner.
Another tacky tourist attraction.
You go first. And, let's not go on a holliday weekend....
:-)
How 'bout a BT fest on that thing? We could probably knock the price down to $10 per head.
Yea... That's what we need. A bunch of drunks rolling around out there... :-) Sounds cool to me. I've always wanted to attend a fest and there would nothing greater than "debating" the structural intregity of the thing as we feel the it moving under our feet as it blows around in the wind... :-)
someone posted this pic in another thread, something about "would you work on this".
i'm not totally convinced this catwalk isn't either a hoax or a publicity gimmick. not saying it is impossible; there's lots of wacky structures in the world. even the snopes quote didn't mention it specifically tho-
me, i don't think i could handle a stroll out onto that. it's not the height, it's that trust factor. and the fact that it looks scary as @%*^!!!
Wasn't previously aware there was already a thread about this skywalk - or wouldn't have started this one! oh well.................DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
"Wasn't previously aware there was already a thread about this skywalk - or wouldn't have started this one! oh well................."hey, lady . . .musclin' in on my post?s'o.k. . . . that was too good to be confined to one source. :)
I wonder if the depends/underwear concesstion is still available?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
I heard it fell thru.
So ya gotta bring your own do rag
er...or is that "do do rag"?
;-)DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
hey, lady . . .
musclin' in on my post?
LOL! as if I could...
s'o.k. . . . that was too good to be confined to one source. :)
Honestly - would love to find YOUR post/thread on this - just haven't had all that much time for BT this week - popping in and out briefly been about all I could do. Can ya share a link to it? puh-leez??? <she bats her eyes and smiles...>DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
how could i not?'Anyone Care to Work on This?' (65911.1)You were much more thorough/investigative than i was. My post was more of a dare. my source must remain anonymous, else i shall have to leave the country . . .
Yeah, I'd take a stroll around that. I'd have to be number 121 or higher though. Actually, I'd like to be there when the first 120 people went out there just in case it flopped. I've never seen 120 people flying without a plane...
blue
I've never seen 120 people flying without a plane...
ROAR!!!!
Well I've been thinking about it. I think I'd have to BE there, ck it out and then decide on the spot if I'd venture out on it. But the views down thru the clear floor are probably the part that would be most disconcerting to me...DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
I've never seen 120 people flying without a plane
I have, and it's an impressive sight to see.
Until you have to go out and police up after all of them (it's a realy, realy, good idea to make sure the other end of the drop bag is attached to a person before releasing it . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The one glass floor I know of at great height was in the Ostankino TV tower in Moscow, at 325 meters (1066 ft.) above ground. They eventually covered it over because people were afraid to walk on it.
They had a bad fire there a few years back, and the public areas aren't fully repaired yet.
http://www.tvtower.ru/52_SmotrovyaPl/eng/
-- J.S.
Rats - your posted link won't open for me.
Care to share the secret password?
(nyet?)DUM SPIRO SPERO: "While I breathe I hope"
I don't know -- it worked again for me. I found it thru a google search for Ostankino Tower. Try google, there are other web sites with good pix of the tower.
Pretty much all terrestrial broadcasting for the Moscow area comes from this one tower. For some deep technical reasons, co-location of transmitters is a good thing with the new digital TV systems.
-- J.S.