I have a large trim job to do for a friend. It involves crown moulding, window and door casing and baseboard that is 6″ wide. Of course my saw won”t cut this. Any advice on which saw you use and would be the one for me. I’m leaning towards the makita ls1013 10″, any comments about it would be helpful also.
Thankyou Pat
Replies
check the archives. Theres miles of stuff on this topic.
I'm sure more'll come with this thread though.
I've been using the DWSCMS 12" for years and totally content with it FWTW. Except for that rip off dust collection bag that collects as much dust as my leaf blower does.
If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
wadda about the wieght... tons of "stufff"
now why didn't you tell him about Bosch... I gotta do everything... Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
How'd I know I'd hear from you?
Every time I mention DW I can hear you saying Bosch...keeps ringing in my head you bastid!!
I have no complaints about any of my DW tools actually...the SCM is really heavy but I have another for smaller work anyway so...
The best thing all these companies could do was come out with the radio chargers. Keeps you comin' back for more of their battery operated tools.
Now if someone would come out with a Satallite/charger radio I might have to switch...If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
bastid ya say...
now to keep my image... hehehehehheheheheehehhhheeeeeehhhheeee...
IIRC the indents wouldn't stay true...
runout due to the saw's fault...
turntable hung up...
switch was dead fer the umpteenth time....
and that's what I came across on yur "DW" saw in about 2 minets...
threaten'd to drag one of mine out ... Bosch or Milwaukee... so we did something else instead...
like set me up fer a photo trying to use a dead DW cordless and publishin' it world wide.. talk about bastid...
also... IIRC..... all the Bosch that came off of my truck you wanted to keep... and ya still stole my hat... did ya go git ya a Bulldog like ya said ya would??? Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Ya well...we all heard a Johnny Appleseed...yer...Marty Boschseed...who else travels with four Bosch Hammer drills? Then demonstrates drillin' holes in rocks? C'mon, who else???
And what hat? No mementos here other than memories...
Even my helper lil' Jose' was stunned by you...you seem to leave a lastin' impression....lolIf Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
the real point was that the Bosch and Milwaukees were made by companies with integerity...
the fact that they cut trim by the SEMI load (at one point 11 or 12 a month) for several years and out lasted all the DW's and Hitachi's combined and some of the Makita's that came on to the job by a long shot and even their in kind replacements... it's been years since the playoffs and mine are still at it...
same for the routers, table saw, compressors, air tools and cordless... why was it that so many needed to use mine over theirs...
my equipment came to the job old...
BTW ... do you remember this....
This is all my own opinion.. I don't rep or vend for anybody here.. The usual disclaimer stuff..
The tools themselves... Flip a coin... Yur choice...
You know I would go with the Bosch though....
I was around when Makita, Hitachi and Ryobie were trying to get a foot hold in the US in the late 70's and early 80's...
They all hit on the mom and pop tool vendors / repair stations 1st and promised them the world... Offered a real bed of roses.. Really went over board to make themselves look good... Serious PR... Great jobber pricing, good warranty program, low unit buying and so on... Suburb returns... and yadda, yadda, yadda....
After they got a bit of a toe hold that began to change... Higher unit costs, larger minimums, restructured warranty pays and poor invoice turn around... As much as 180 days out and discounted when the check showed up with a warning letter with it in regards to charging interest on unpaid balances... When the shoe was on the other foot... D&C...
When they got into HD, Mr. How, Scotties, Lowes and Wickes the mom and pop outfits found themselves over the proverbial barrel... Retail at those stores was lower than the M&P quantity jobber pricing... That bed of roses had an awful lot of thorns in it...
When Makita opened their own repair stations things got worse for mom and dad... The M&P folks couldn't even get repair parts unless they went to the repair stations in person and bought them over the counter... Sometimes for a whopping 10% off... 32$ for a VSCH switch at Makita was $7.50 from Milwaukee.... Same exact switch.....
I think these guys / manufacturers did this to force out the M&P's because they weren't "volume†and not to spend a dime of their own money doing it... they may even have had an angle to make money doing this... Don't know for sure but it sure looked that way...
Bean counters and numbers.... Bottom line... It's us that matters and screw all them out there... The old time hard line Oriental view of the caste system was very apparent here... Ya could taste it....
These guys weren't too customer friendly either... Screwed over more than a few.. Getting tool issues resolved was another class of "PITA" all in it's self... They left some really good people hanging, out in the cold, monies due - embittered... 25 years latter and they still haven't made good... Reneged to the max...
So in short their integrity sucks and greed rules... Don't give a damn what their PR lackeys say...
All thru this Bosch, Milwaukee, Elu, Hilti and Matebo stood by their word... Didn't let any one down and were willing to give the benefit of the doubt to it's contractors (M&P"s) and customers... This group of companies said "we are integrity" and proved it over and again... They had a line of excellent products, still do, and stood by them..
When I buy tools I look at who is getting my money and for what, together...
And not to mention … what will the tool do for ME… how long will last and be trouble free at the same time… trouble costs money and causes down time…
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Edited 4/9/2006 7:44 pm by IMERC
I have no doubt at all about Bosch.. Probably would get a replacement with a Bosch if one of my DW dies but its been years and they still all are going strong so I can't complain really...If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
What is with the empty shelves in the background.
LOL........Had to make room on the upper shelves for all my copper leaders and gutters for this entire house..The shelves are beyond packed at this point. I need to find a place to make lumber racks when I have time...but I can't even find more than an hour a week if that to just straighten out the shop!
HAve an entire room above the shop too w/ the same amount of floor space (30x30 almost finished attic space w/low roof lines) but we all know what'll happen if I start packing that with more stuff...ugh.Its half full now.
Thank god for Home Depot...I don't care what anyone says about it...
YOU CAN RETURN WHAT YOU DON'T USE!!!!If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Its pretty full up here now too...this pic was taken before the ones with the empty shelves so........If Blodgett says, Tipi tipi tipi it must be so!
TipiFest 06~~> Send me your email addy for a Paypal invoice to the greatest show on earth~~>[email protected]
Ridgid
Live the Good Life in the Permian Basin.
There's so many good saws to choose from now that you could just about pick one blindly and do ok.
That said, I've had a Makita LS1013 for three or four years now. No frills, works hard, cuts everything I want it too, and stays accurate.
The 12" Dewalt slider is a popular favorite as are the Bosch saws. Hitachi started it all (sliders) and continues to put out nice saws although I don't think I'd by that newly revamped 12" Incredible Hulk looking job they're currently pushing.
Like Andy said, do a search here or at http://www.toolsofthetrade.net and pick up a couple you like. Then go find them at a tool supplier and mess around with them and decide which one feel like a good fit for you.
"...Incredible Hulk looking job they're currently pushing"
That's the best description I've heard yet! I'm getting it because of the digital readout, will be using to install staircases, often with more than 1 curve. But I feel wierd about the design, looks like a big toy, or a race car.... or the Incredible Hulk. LOL - Good One! --------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
I'm getting it because of the digital readout
From the reviews I've read it's not as accurate as you might think. I haven't read about anyone that has bought the saw, and kept it for more than a week.
Hitachi's normal slider is great. Their 8" saw was my first slider, and I used/abused it for 5 or 6 years.If you have any poo, fling it now.
I know three people out here that have the Hitachi and love it.
I've heard a lot of whining and moaning here and it seems it's only because the thing looks different.
The only legit problem I've heard is the that you can not 45 bevel/45 miter in one direction, which is BS in my opinion, but it doesn't make the whole saw bad.
What complaints besides that have you heard?
Some guy that posts on JLC was at a demo that put all the sliders head to head. This is what he posted.
Hitachi C12LSH: Truly difficult to put into words what an unmitigated POS this saw is. Horrific. Appalling. Finally, insulting. Apparently this is a Lowe's Special and as so is perhaps aimed at the DIYer who thinks this is what a pro would use. Some design features are not so bad, but the overall execution is so poor as to be laughable. What am I talking about? A dinky turntable and miter scale virtually impossible to read split degrees with (the digital scale accuracy is +/- 1.5 degrees, but reads to 10ths!); HUGE; HEAVY; side-to-side blade movement at full extention of more than 1/4" (really handy for large SG crown); various parts looked ready to come off in our hands (this was a factory fresh saw in the box 15 minutes before the presentation); no switch safety lock-out button (how'd that get by UL?) but it does have a "Hollywood" /fake safety button molded into the handle (one cannot make this stuff up!). The blade guard is impossible to manipulate and/or see the blade.
I'll search for a few more posts.If you have any poo, fling it now.
the tools are generally good...
it's the integrity of the jap companies that suck....Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Pat
I just bought a Makita LS1013L to replace my old Milwaukee slider.
I like it a lot, but as Diesel mentioned, there are so many good miter saws out there that you cant hardly go wrong.
Doug
I like my Bosch 10" slider"he...never charged nothing for his preaching, and it was worth it, too" - Mark Twain
A couple of years ago at a tool store the salesman showed me how the DeWalt compounds don't lock tight. I tiped it to a midrange bevel (about 35 deg.) and locked it tight. Then went around front of it and gave it a budge and sure enough it moved, not that difficult either. I tried the same with the Makita and the Hitachi. They wouldn't budge at all. I don't know that using the saw would pull on it as hard as I did, but I imagine it moving off the mark when cutting say a 2x10, especially if the curf tightens up while cutting, which sometimes happens.
I like a lot of dual sliders, namely anything from Makita, Hitachi, Bosch and even the DeWalt, despite that the bevel doesn't lock tight I'm guessing it locks tight enough for most purposes. Also, that was a couple of years ago and may have been fixed.
Another one worth looking at is Metabo. I've never tried theirs out but Metabo makes some top notch tools and I wouldn't mind puting their dual slider to the test.
One thing I like about the Bosch is that you can lock and unlock the bevel from the front, which is a real convenience.
--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net
See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
I do quite a bit of trim work and recently went for a new saw also. I bought a new 10" Bosch slider in December and I was satisfied with it for a while, but there were a couple of things I did not like. First, when I was cutting door and window casing, I found it a little difficult to tweak it a fraction of a degree off the 45 degree setting. It had a srong tendency to rock back down into the 45 degree detent while you were tightening the handle. Even using both hands. Also, and there are a few saws with this characteristic, the blade only extends about a 1/4" below the cutting table, which limits the width of stock you can cut without using the slider. I know that's what the slider is for, but I personally prefer a saw which will allow the blade to go much deeper and then you can lock the slide and still cut a wide piece of stock.
All that being said, I returned it to our local Tool Crib and traded it in for the 12" DeWalt which did cost about 100$ more at about 600$. It is very easy to move a fraction of a degree off the detents and lock it. There is no tendency at all to move back into the detent and I can move it and lock it easily with one hand. Much quicker! Also the blade does go well below the cutting table so that you can cut much wider stock without using the slider! Other than the very poorly designed dust collection, as was mentioned above, I am very well satisfied with the saw. I didn't think I really needed the 12", but after using I would not go back to the 10". Very nice for cutting wide base in the upright position! Anyway, just one observation! Good luck!
Duey
This might sound stupid, but I owned my Bosch saw for a while before I realized it had the feature to disengage the stops to allow for infinite adjustment at any point on the scaleJT
That doesn't sound stupid at all compared to this; I never realized that at all and would probably still have my Bosch saw if I would have! When I took it back to the Tool Crib with that one major complaint, they obviously didn't know it either. I could have saved myself the extra 100$ and still had the free Bosch radio that came with it! Next time I'll stop here first!
Duey
It seems Bosch would make it one of the major selling points, about releasing the detents when needed. Especially working on older homes as I do, about half my 45s are actually a fraction of a degree off. And I know a lot of others who devise ways to get the fraction of a degree, puting a shim behind the piece they're cutting or clamping the table. With a feature like being able to release the detent, it should be boasted on the box in big yellow letters.
This has me thinking about getting the bosch now. I'm not thrilled about carrying the green monster Hitachi toy onto the jobsite anyway.
Ya know, to be honest, I'm really getting fed up with Hitachi's radical designs, like they're trying to make their tools look like race cars or robots or something. It's all fluff. I'm going to take a closer look at Bosch.
Hey, doe's Milwaukee make a miter saw? I don't recall ever seeing one.--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
6497-6 10" Magnum Slide Compound with Dust Bag , 80-Tooth Carbide Blade, Extension, and Vise Other products by Milwaukee
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Yeah, I was just at Amazon.com and found the Milwaukees, but no dual bevels.--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
My big local building supply place, that goes easily head-to-head with Home Despot and Lowe's has this saw on sale for a tempting 399$
I want a 10" slider (I have lots of 10" blades) and I'm very tempted just to save the couple hundred bucks off the Hitachi/Bosch/DW comparable saws and get it.
What do you think?
Pat
Just remember that all blades are not necessarily good on a mitre saw. It really seems to make a difference on pulling the stock. Like said previously the neg hook angle is desireable. If you are just chopping it is no big deal.
Bob
I don't think it's a bad saw. One trim carpenter I know has it, and he seems to like it. Personally, I've never cut with one, so I can't say one way or the other.
For any slider to cut up to it's potential you have to get a blade specifically designed for a slider. The Forrest blade is the best, but it costs over $100. I have a Diablo blade that I use for framing, and mdf. I think it was $60 or $70.If you have any poo, fling it now.
Mmmn,
DIdn't know that about the blades. I have a Freud Ultimate chop blade and another fine finish I use in my table saw too.
I'll figure this out. I think I'll pass on the MW from other posts.
Thank you.
Pat
That Milwaukee is a very good saw....
keep in mind it weighs 75 pounds...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Milwaukee's had a 10" slider for years, but it mostly gets lackluster reviews and it's probably pretty dated by now.The Bosch release works great and is the same on both the saws I own - an older 10" slider and the 24volt 10" cms.I agree about the Hitachi stuff - I don't care how great it is - it looks like cheap crap.Not sure if I like the new Bosch sliders - they seem kindof huge and spreadout compared to the depth of the newer Dewalt and Hitachi's.Funny thing is - I started with a slider and lusted after a lower-weight alternative. Picked up the 24 volt saw (24lbs) and use that for the majority of my work.JT
Good to hear (or read) you're happy with the release. I'm pretty much sold on the Bosch 5412L. I will no doubt be cutting stringers so I need the size, and I want the laser so I don't have to nick the wood first to see where I'm at.--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Hey, doe's Milwaukee make a miter saw?
Yea they do, but they don't make a duel bevel/duel angle slider.
I just bought the LS1013L Makita after having to put up with a Milwaukee slider for the past 5 years. Thank God in that time I had access to a Hitachi and Makita slider, I don't buy much in the way of DeWalt but I'd take one of them over the Milwaukee any day.
I'm unloading that boat anchor of a Milwaukee to a unsuspecting guy(he doesn't log onto the computer for much more then porn so I know he wont see this).
The Milwaukee is hard to keep acurate.It'd be a great saw for a framing crew but not for trimming out the house.
Doug
Been using Dewalts, but the pard just got a Hitachi dual-bevel 12" slide compound unit.
I had never seen this feature on another saw, but this Hitachi has a backstop the sawblade passes through, that does the same thing as a zero-clearance insert on a tablesaw, that of preventing backside chipout.
If I was getting a slider for myself, this Hitachi would be the one. If the 8.5 incher or 10 incher Hitachis had dual bevel and the backup component, I would consider them, too.
And after experiencing the starting torque from my Dewalts for a few thousand trigger pulls, I would say soft-start is a gotta have for the next saw.
Anyone can tell horror stories of the saw they had that was a bad one. And of course lots of people will tell you how much they "love" what they have. I am always amazed at the use of that word as regards a tool, as if romance was in play.
IMHO, the saw itself is only part of the tool. The blade and the benchstand are the other critical components.
At the top of the heap of competitors in blade and bench country, the Forrest chopmaster blade and American Design and Engineering bench are the best, IMHO. You gotta outfit a slider with a negative hook tooth chop blade, and the Forrest is the best made one out there. The AD&E bench is in a class by itself, also, and makes everything a very satisfying unit with which to work, with its adjustable stop and table scales.
Of course, there went the budget. The blade and stand will likely run you another $550 or so.
But then again, we don't want to see you on your knees over in the corner, like my flooring sub.
Wow- Thanks Gene and all the other replys I got from my question. It helped alot. The best advice is from somebody that uses it every day.
Pat
http://www.heavydutytools.net/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=57
http://www.heavydutytools.net/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=45
Call Mark and see what he might have that is not on the site.
Bob Smith
You can't go wrong with the Makita LS1013. I bought mine about 18 months ago and it's been worth every penny. Get a work stand for it while you're at it. I got the DeWalt stand with the folding legs and love it. I've seen newer ones that have more features and suspect that they would be great, too.
A large trim job does not warrant the purchase of a slider
But if you're like me, any excuse will do.
So...
If you like cutting on the flat, get the Makita. It has no fence. You couldn't cut anything standing up if you wanted to.
If you want a porcupine of levers on the front of the saw ready to get knocked off get the Bosch.
The DW 12" double bevel will cut 6½" base standing up. I've used one for years and it is a beauty for trim work. Best saw I've ever used. I recently bought the new DW 12" slider and find it identical to the double bevel except for the increased cutting capacity and the 60º left / 50º right miter. The new DW slider has the largest cutting capacity of any of the 12" saws yet is one of the smallest travelling saws.
The DW is worth some investigation.
Gord