Slow footsteps, unenergized saw cuts..ug
What really bothers me…….oiy. My rant,,,,,,,sorry! I ask a helper to go down the stairs & bring me up
whatever
from my truck……I’m upstairs waiting and hear his mother f*&^(()ing steps clopping along like a heard of Cliesdales in a parade…slow as mollasses……picking his teeth between every fourth riser……OMG….thennnnnnn asking him to cut me a length of 3/4″ ply for a subfloor………I hear……cut cut cut…STOP…..cut cut cut……STOP….cut cut cut….stop……OK so my patience is wearing thin……I bring the helper aside to talk to him and say…….my brother…..are you in another world zone or do you wanna be a carpenter or not…..Dude resonds saying (usually) “whats so wrong? I say……..”your in another world”..he replies….”why, arent I goin fast enough for you?”.I say.aint about fast,,,its about concentration and a fixed motion…..rythem………..point being……..no wonder I lost my hair…..More people wanting a paycheck then learning. They all have lame answers. Loveeeee teaching all I know BUT sooooo many guys really dont care……point being…again..if you find an apprentice that cares do him well. sooooo few around!
the greatest craft on this
planet….So hows it for you with HELP bro’s
Jus me again,,,,,[email protected]
It’s not who’s right, it’s who’s left ~ WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Replies
cut cut cut...STOP.....cut cut cut......STOP....cut cut cut....stop......
are you making them use a hand saw? - - he don't want to be a carpenter - he wants a check so he can go party - I got no answer - been like that since forever -
Last week I was watching this kid with a shovel. Had his hat on backwards (of course) and his pants were so big he spent more time pulling up pants than shoveling. As I wasn't the one paying him I didn't say anything clever like "Go home and don't come back", but how the hell do these kids think they can work when their "Fashion Statement" takes so much of their time? Curious........Joe H
I am actually an apprentice myself, but my boss usually hires some labor help over the summer. Last summer he sent "Bill" and I out to a huge deck to powerwash it. I tell my boss to just keep Bill, and I'll go alone, easy job. Well, he sends him with me anyway. The only thing I asked him to do was to keep the hose out of my way as I'm washing the deck. He was able to master this task for a good five or ten minutes before I had to constantly kick the hose out of my way. He would just stand there with the hose in his hands staring off into space.
Driving down the street in the summer. The number of lemonade stands I see I could count on one hand. Some got it, some don't. Starts at an early age.
__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
It's just a personel thing but if you give someone a mundane task such as holding the hose for you all day of course he's going to lose interest. I would have traded him off and on. "I'll do it for a while then you do it for awhile." If he's still not into it, then at least you can say you tried. But "Stand here and hold this hose while I get to do all the fun stuff." Is not a very apealing way to spend the day.
Tough! If you are hired to work you do it no matter how mundane.
That's the attitude that inspires even less out of someone. I'm as dissapointed with the modern work attitude as anyone. When I started out you never ever asked for time off. You took care of your personel business on your own time. Almost every new hire I've seen in the last few years has needed personel time off in the first few weeks. Carried tons of personel baggage with them,and the worse they were at their jobs the more attitude they had.
I agree from a boss's standpoint. When i wrote that I was putting myself in the lazy guy's shoes! I bet you would agree from that standpoint wouldn't you?
By the time this particular day happened, Bill had already worked for us for about a month and a half. The reason I only gave him a mundane task like that is because he did EVERYTHING in slow motion. It took him an hour to sweep up a floor. He walked with all of the speed of a three toed sloth. My boss constantly complained about him, but wouldn't fire him because he was a friend's son. Personally, I didn't have a problem with the guy, but I wasn't about to stand around all day waiting for him to finish something I would do in half the time. I have done plenty of mundane tasks. I had been my bosses only full time employee for quite a while, which meant that virtually every mundane task came my way. That didn't stop me from doing it with excellence.
Bill is a college student studying accounting. I wasn't trying to be mean spirited about the thing. I'm sure I would really suck and take forever running numbers all day long. Some people just aren't suited for carpentry/construction type work.
I see your aggravation. And I've been through it plenty. It's just every once in a while you have to look from the other guys side. Look at it from the perspective of what am I doing to make him act that way? In your case it's a fact that he didn't get better no matter what job he had. So my point doesn't really fit in here. Anytime I work with a "Drone" like that I just shake my head. It baffles the double hockey sticks out of me when they constantly mope around all the time.
Now this is obviously the fault of the school systems not providing enough money for the little darlings education.........I gave up trying.. and do it myself or sub it out.
I don't think they understand that I'm supposed to be making money on the job not just providing a place for them to hang out.
I am for a mandatory two year hitch in the military for every male 18-20. Best thing that could happen to them. When they get out they may have received enough discipline to be worth something.
JJ,
I agree!
There's no disipline.
Every one to go, including those that would like to attend the college of their choice.
Well,
I have a helper, nice guy,works hard,really tries.But for the most part he can really drive you nuts.We're working in a building,have a room set aside to cut in,you know what it gets like.After a while I'm standing in a pile of cut offs.We reach a point where we have a break in the action and have to make some choices about what to do in another room.I tell the helper to clean up the cut room so we have some room to work.After a while he hasn't been around ,I've been doing my thing, but go looking for him.He's in the cut room,you could eat off the floor,he's got every scrap of wood laid out on the floor according to size,starting from 1 inch pieces up to full boards.Not piled,laid across the room from one end to the other.What do you say to the guy,what I did was go over to the saw pick up a 2x4 and cut myself a hunk,let the saw dust blow all over the place ,drop the cut off on the floor,and tell him to follow me for another adventure in building.
Vince Carbone
Edited 3/30/2002 7:26:19 AM ET by Vince Carbone
It is easy to blame young people for all the faults of the modern world as they are not shy about giving us reasons to do so. Maybe we are forgetting what it was like to be that age. I know that I am.
There is a talent for working with an apprentice and many fine craftsmen do not have it. We hire college kids(usually children of my friends) during the summer and when they come home for breaks and are short on cash. This does not always work out perfectly. The kids do not always show up. They sometimes are lackadaisical and their attention wanders. But they do learn. And a lot faster than someone ten years older. They come back after a stint at school and surprise you with a new attitude and appreciation for the job.
We hired a new guy this fall who is very mildly retarded. He has a postive attitude and is very willing to do any job. One of my partners (who actually hired him) was disappointed in his performance. He assumed that his skills were greater than they turned out to be and that he was easily distracted. He is now working with another crew and is doing very well. We closely supervise him and use him as a helper. If you are willing to work with him and not give him a lot of independence or leeway for decisions, he can be quite productive. This style of supervision is not for everybody.
To think that you can just hire an apprentice and that he will meet your expectations is completely unrealistic. You need to supervise, train and provide a role model for the new guy. If you are not interested in this, don't hire an apprentice. You will only confirm your belief that all young kids are lazy self-absorbed punks who need someone (else) to give them a good kick in the butt. They probably do need that, but so did I thirty years ago.
Before I left to start my own company a year ago, I was a manager for a fence company. We could not find one single local guy to work. Skilled or not. We ended up with alot of mexican national labor, and I mean alot. The funny thing was, 90% of these guys would outwork any of my foreman. No questions asked. If I told any of them to do something, it got done. The only drawback was communication. Fortunately, I remembered enough of my college spanish to make me just dangererous. But these guys would really work for me. I think because I made an effort to communicate with them in their language. Alot of my foreman were pretty hardheaded about working with these guys, so scheduling was a nightmare, but for the most part I could trust them to do whatever I needed. I remember one time in particular, this little guy, Mario, I told him I needed a post hole dug for a gate post. He asked how deep in spanish, I thought I told him 3 feet. After an hour I went to check on his progress and found him standing in a hole about 3 feet in diameter and 6 feet deep. I laughed for awhile as he asked me if it was "bien". Good in Spanish. Point is, if it wasn't for these guys, I would have been way behind. They didn't really care about the task, it all paid the same. Most local guys were such prima donnas and didn't want the grunt work anyway.
cole Cole Dean
Dean Contracting
Another untapped resource are women: there's a whole army of "homemakers" out there who want to re-enter the workforce now that their kids are self-sufficient; but, all that's available to most is a McJob. Not every one is a gem, of course, but they generally deliver good employee value..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
OK, I been reading this thread not saying anything, but somebody brought up women so I thought that must be my cue.
First, I applaud all you bosses who BOSS your employees. I hired a good carpenter who was a nice older gentleman for several projects. What was good about him is he would do stuff I just couldn't handle for sheer lack of skill, like hanging a dutch door in a crooked frame, or framing a roof, then he'd be done and let me do what I could, like caulk and shingle and build decks. One day, he left some of his helpers here to hang Hardiplank and he went to another job. One man didn't speak any English and just did what the supervisor pointed to in order. Nail gun, siding, wall. The other man wouldn't stop speaking. He knew EVERYTHING. That man made a terrible mess. He didn't match the exposure from around the corner, he blew nails all the way through, nailed both ends and then worked towards the middle so it was all bowed out... I went and printed the instructions off the internet and showed the man pictures of how to do it. He argued with me and said "Well, that's not how I do it." I told him to put away his tools and go home. Later, his boss came back with him to talk to me. I showed him the instructions, and my nice carpenter agreed that was the proper procedure and said so to his employee. And that jerk back-talked my nice carpenter and disputed his instructions, too. My nice carpenter was just meek as a mouse while this tatooed hoodlum walked all over him.
Skip to the end of story, I gave my nice carpenter a chance to fix the wrong stuff and finish the other end of the house while I went back to my hometown for a long weekend to get married. When we came back from a 2 day honeymoon, a 6 foot section of wall was sided with alternating 2 and 4 foot pieces of siding while 20 pieces of 12 foot siding were left over. My new husband as his first act as the new head of household forbid me from ever doing business with that carpenter again.
Moral of the story: One thing worse than a slow employee is a blatantly arrogant and stubbornly ignorant one.
I'm a woman, and guess I can walk fast and sweep fast and stack lumber fast, and you can be sure that I have special clothes for manual labor that are distinct from my fashion wear. I guess I would be a good helper. But when I'm the only one working on a job, and I'm not getting paid by the hour, I'm slower than cooking rice in a pot of snow with half a can of Sterno.I managed to get a Physics degree from a reputable institution in a short 4 years, but I had some excellent professors. With just magazines, books and the internet to go on, figuring out all the steps of carpentry so I don't mess up something later is harder than partial differential equations, you can take it from me.
I was a commercial interior designer before the economy turned down. (My version of a McJob, considering the physics degree.) It was so easy to draw the little lines and arrows in AutoCAD pointing out all the fixtures. Actually BUILDING it that way is a lot more complicated. Sitting in front of AutoCAD I could just type in "height from finished floor" pretty as you please. But when I actually have to figure out what that means in terms of how long to cut the 2x6 leg in a frame that's going to have 5 layers of stuff on it before you get to the top of the tile, it introduces a whole new level of self doubt!
That's probably why I love to dig holes. Just one shovelful at a time. If you haven't dug enough, you can dig some more. If you dig too much, you can stomp it back in there. My husband thinks I'm nuts. He looks at a hump on the ground and starts imagining machinery with an internal combustion engine. I look at it as a series of easily managed shovelfuls. I'll move the whole yard from one side to the other one wheelbarrow load at a time, however long it takes to get a ditch good enough for the water to quit filling up the garage. And if I come out with a new raised bed for some more hosta, all the better!
So maybe women are the way to go for ditch diggin', sweepin', window cleanin', and rollin' up extension cords. I could do that while being privileged to witness many demonstrations of complicated building techniques. But you gotta learn a language besides pointing to get work out of some of us. I called my Mama and asked her to measure something at her house for me. She got back on the phone and told me it was 23 9/15 inches. "What 15ths?" I wanted to know. "You know, 9 of those littlest marks. There's 15 of them." Uh huh.
sounds like your Mom is as smart and dedicated as you are! I already love her. I also love your Hosta garden although I might plant something more colorful being that youre so devoted...hmmmm..maybe digitalis (sp?). I personally use a woman architect cause I'm sick of the know it all men that dont and cant even listen for the most part. Its VERY inspiring to hear woman that get into a "mans" field and I more then applaud that. Its soooooooo necessary for so many reasons. The "edge" needs to be taken off and refiled to form a conture that fits all of us. The Yin and the YAng..sorry to paraphrase. No I'm not....lol. The building industry IMHO needs more woman involved as does the govt. Theres something really wrong here in Oz and I dont mean the penitentuary.
Be Well, Namaste' AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
HEY breese- those are real- life lessons your learning there. women could add a great dimension to this industry, as far mama goes it's all in the effort . but you know that. cheers the bear
p.s. one the best thing's i love to see is testosterone melt, and the mouth behind it. it's got no place on the job. it's character not cajones .
Edited 3/30/2002 11:08:20 PM ET by the bear
Vince? This guy sound anything like Dustin Hoffmann in "Rainman"?
-gwc
PS: Check with Pete D., few years back he was training his Son for a career in demolition... perhaps the lad's ready for full-time employment.
" I am for a mandatory two year hitch in the military for every male 18-20."
Why just males? I think a 2 yr. "National Service" should include everyone. I believe Israel has a requirement like this.
The military isn't for everybody, so maybe they could choose something else, like work with inner city kids, or work in the national parks or forest service, or some other useful thing. Bear
bearmon.. right on.. Universal Government Service.. two years , everyone... some military, some CCC, some Peace Corps, some Inner City...but everyone...Mike Smith
Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I agree 100% with your clarification. But have military style dicipline with the other programs. (maybe they already do)
Military is a joke...c'mon my brothers....that ain't gonna happen sooooo....For the most part anyone that ever worked for me past a month stayed with me no less then four years. As far as hiring part time college people....whatcha thinkin'? Duhhhh. What works best for me is allowing the "apprentice' (vs.helper) to be PART of your action..part of your company,,,,have a vested interest....Kinda like so many other "conscious" companies like how Ben and Jerry ran their company.....and The Body Shop....etc etc....One thing I would do was to allow my guys to kinda SUB a job for me. When I had small simple jobs that I might of passed by, intead I estimated it in my mind. Brought my "apprentice" with me and asked him what he thought the job was worth to him. Say it was a small painting job. Worth maybe $400.....He'd do it on a Saturday. Was worth $300 to him. A lot of money even if he had to go back for a few nights(if that was good with the customer) to complete it. I made a $100 for just guiding him through it and lending him some of my tools and he made out wonderfully. I did this often and my guys never left me seeing the greener pastures cause they knew sticking with me and being loyal and honest only benifited them in the long haul. Eventually everyone leaves and thats cool. I'm more then elated to know I helped some young guy out toward his dream. Sooooo many of these guys stayed in touch with me and thank me left and right. Thats all I could ask for. Simple as Treat them as you'd like to be treated and if theyre obvious a-holes then the word "fired" comes out as easy as pie. It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"I am for a mandatory two year hitch in the military for every male 18-20. Best thing that could happen to them. When they get out they may have received enough discipline to be worth something."
I don't agree - AT ALL
What I mostly learned in the Army was to drink and take drugs. And creative ways to screw around and avoid work. And a bad attitude.
Knew that sooner or later this would come up. It is a fact that a significant pct of military folks (10-20 pct?) see the military as a challenge... a challenge to figure out ways to get out of work. A challenge to do drugs and not get caught. A challenge to push the limits as far as they can without getting called into account.
The far greater percentage tho learns discipline and can apply it later in life.
Boss, were you Vietnam era?
I was Post Vietnam era and the collective self esteem of the military was lower than whale dung. Towards the end of my enlistment (79) it was getting better but there was a dark period there.
Last summer went to a friends sons graduation at Ft Benning. My GOSH the change!! My drill sergeants were fat OR psycho OR pulling some kind of a scam. These guys looked SHARP... I was amazed at the difference. The Company commander to the Drill Sergeants looked like they could model for a calendar or kick Goldbergs butt OR both. I was proud of that group. (Geez you cant even smoke in basic!! "The smoking light is OUT drill sergeant!"
When I got back I looked at my Basic Training book and confirmed my observations. Post Vietnam we were scraping the bottom of the barrel. Just glad we didnt have to fight anything significant back then. If you remember Cuzzin Jimmy wuz in office and he just fed us yard dogs scraps from the kitchen table.
Pretty proud of our military right now. They are making our collective chest swell.
I look down my nose at people who dare to look down their nose at people.
Pete
Right (write) on my brother. I'm 51 this month and I fought the war ...Nam!
AGAINST it....was thrown in jail in Washington when I was about 16...That was no war IMHO.it was mass genocide against a nation that was as small as my pinky nail.
Calley,,,,,memeber that pri*K......among others. Verifies a whole lot of what you personally witnessed right here in this country. Excuses.excuses to use drugs almost legally..get booty..collect checks and medical and retiorment funds etc etc. Only thing I collected was a record of arrest.no biggie. Its framed on my wall along with my two contractors liscenses. Spoke up for what I believed. And yeh, I think the military today is way different then it was. I have issues with that as well but not as intense as it was....Isreal taking (supposidly)occupied land...well maybe. I'm a Jew (not practicing but in unison)I've turned my beliefs more towards a Zen phylosophy. I'm not real clear about the whole process but I DO understand the Palestinions view point....Yet are WE gonna give the land back to the Indians?????? It goes a whole lot deeper then this I know...Geezzzz.I got off on a rant again..sorreeee....
A Jewish/Zen carpenter in heat
Be well..NAmaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
andy you all make great points but it starts at home i believe, the kid's are raised by a completely diffrent "persona", i was raised by the so-called "greatest" generation. which as i grow not only chronologically, but personally and believe me when i tell you in twentyso years it has been substantial. but the greatest gift i was betrothed was a excellent work ethic. always had it ,it's as deeply ingrained in me as my D.N.A . also being in the military, for four years (marine corp) it did make a diffrence, but with time even the M.C. experience dissolves. thus remain's well we're we are back to the basic's of the man. the bottom line I.M.H.O your either cut out for this business or your not. there are many diffrent variations as we all know here. one other thing about the so-called NAM experience let's leave that to the participants it was far more calley, baby killing,etc etc etc, there things called brotherhood,honor, and deep ,deep care. and those quality's aformentioned we're exsistent alot more then been portrayed. i'm a neighorbor, i'm a friend but what i am most proudly is a 2nd generation carpenter. cheers to all the bear
Bear,
I agree with a lot of what you say. I had many friends in Nam and there was a brotherhood but it wasnt about right or wrong. It was about being thrown into an exploding pot together. I resisted the induction and was respected highly by my military friends especially after the so called war. I spent many months in prison for avoiding and protesing the draft and Nam. I spent many months in jail as a wayward minor at 17. Running away from home. I hitched from NY to Berkely Calif and back again meeting the most incredable people you could ever imagine from NY to Sandusky Ohio to Topeka Kansas....Colorado and on and on. Dropped outta high school in APRIL of my senior year as a statement about what I thought of the current school system in the 60's...I started along with other people a "Free School" that was accredited by the state of NY for kids from 5-18....similar to A.S Neils's Summerhill in England. I think DNA might be right but its not necessarily from any one person in particular. A lot of serial killers had decent parents. It comes from within your own soul and if youre surrounded by so many different aspects of cruelty one way or another it comes to a head I beleive. Something I have done as a last resort before firing some is to switch jobs with them.....give them the complicated trim work or whatever it is "I'm" doing and take on the "mundane" job I had them doing such as digging a trench footing. I switch for about an hour......go back and look at the botched up work they've done and show them the trench or whatever that I did....no bitterness or harsh words. I let them know they can help me do the trim work and "learn" as soon as the trench is finished. If they don't get it theyre outta there but 7 out 10 times my approach HAS worked and no ones worked for me less then about four years before moving on. Its hard to know where someones coming from and an extra hour of "example" sure can help a lost soul
Be well
Andy http://www.cliffordrenovations.com It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
andy- you made a excellent point's all around , but it is the very early perify influnces, and i'll stake 10 yrs. of my life on that. it's a difficult, sometimes fragile, and often you see no results until much further down the road of life. but as mentioned in this discussion before, it's pride, it's an all-around alchemic evolvement that eventually will take place. if dedication,again pride, a dash of desperation which by the by is way underrated. a lot of other little inert ingredient's that seem inconsequential at the time. but will come into play. one little test is the stacking of lumber from a lumber drop. i explain how i wanted stacked, that he is in charge of this lumber. i take an some in-ordinate time showing him about crowns. good-luck let me know when your finished.if he pull's it off to my satisfaction, we are on starting on very ,basic even ground. you can really tell about someone and organizational skills, cause in reality it transfer to being able to think ,learn, execute and that what it basically boils down to, technic will come if mentored correctly . as far as nam you know what hysterical, controversial times they we're. and some times that damn hard summer rain , put's me in my quite place. doing what i do and the interaction's i've had it's a good craft to be in hands down. cheers to all the bear
Crowns? Wasn't sure what you meant.....crown moldings or the crown of a 2x whatever. I assume .the whatever. Good choice. Thats too much fun though to find out ones personality and dedication..lol...I like the trench footing dig myself or humping a few dozen bndls of roofing up to the peak. Had one chap that worked for me (for five years) hump two bundles at once......and he wasnt a big guy.....just strong and seriously devoted and a bit brain dead in a lot of ways.....yet so devoted to me and what he knew he'd get from the apprentice-ship. He was about to quit trying to be a carpenter cause he was offered a modeling gig ( he was a good lookin young guy). He went on modeling shoots after work and it wasnt paying off that well I think. I let him run his course even though he came to work each day real tired. He still worked hard. I sat him down one day during lunch after about a month of his modeling and told him what a good carpenter he was becoming and what I thought his modeling career was worth at this point...he quit the modeling due to the infrequencies of shoots and paychecks and.....the reality of what I expressed to him during lunch that day. He knew he wasnt a real smart guy yet he was soooo devoted to the things he did....I KNEW he'd come out shinning. By the way, George lived in one foster home after the other and served in the military in the far east in the 80's. He is now married with kids and owns his own remodeling biz. He calls me every year or so to thank me. Goodness comes in all kinda shapes. Starts from your soul and ends in the same place when ones time comes......
By the way Bear...you havent filled out the profile form so.....where ya from and whats your name?
Be well,
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
one other thing Bear.Don't stake ten years on the perify comment. Mine totally sucked beyond belief......stake your ten on dna from past generations that compose your makeup. Theres no rhym or reason that one can articulate IMHO. George went d
from one miserable foster home to the next so.......I think its a composite of past souls passed down the line. Its more of a spiritual scenario IMHO. Dont much matter now does it. The folks with giving souls and forgiving hearts will bring many misguided people a chance to be who they truley are not what their shell personifies.It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
and DESPERATION can lead one in many directions. Yet good point. Its the foundation of who we think we are or in many instances know who we are that will bring the desperation to a good place. Stratagizing ones life because of desperation isnt a good thing although it can be a trigger which can be helpful. I LIKE your termanology about desperation but I believe it has many facets to it. Sorry bout my spelling...lol. Spell check doesnt seem to work. Anyway......Emotion can bring one to a place of goodness and greatness or...evil. All the greatest artist were of emotional state.......for the most part. I've been told that I may be bi-polar to a mild degree.....I see where one might think that about me yet my differences push me in directions that allow me to energize my artistic endevors. My anger and caring translates to my work. My medication has been a room in this house I built. My meditation room where I go often and look at the simple alter I constructed with photos of those that were important in my life. I "sit" and think and then...dont think....I just feel what I am and what my gifts are. I get up .....bow ..and get the fu*k back to my work!!! Respect and dedication come from a life stategy that you have to come to grips with and work and build.....Honesty!
Be well,Namaste' AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Pete -
I wasn't Vietnam era - I was in from 1979-1983. They kept telling us how much better the military was - how they were kicking out all the duds, etc. But I worked with a bunch of morons, and never saw any evidence of it. Maybe it's improved, maybe it hasn't. I'll remain skeptical until I see otherwise.
Being that you have no profile (god forbid) I'll just have to call you Boss....
Boss.....I couldn't agree more strongly. The military is like any other organization. It CAN be a place to learn "if one wants to" or it can be a place to go abroad to get...uhh.hmmmm.well, you know. Get great hash heesh in the mid east or NAm not to mention booty. Its no different then going to a job such as the ones I offer...YA either wanna get into it for IT or yer doin' it cause your bored and need some dough.....or somethin'.....It all amounts to "motivation"!It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
What I mostly learned in the Army was to drink and take drugs. And creative ways to screw around and avoid work. And a bad attitude.
I guess it depends what branch you were in. Airborne infantry/Marine corp. you'd have been doing a lot of twenty mile midnight hikes....and digging a lot of really deep holes and filling them up......and.....
Anyway, I like the idea of service and sacrifice ....US or abroad. Hospital or national forest or Afganastan......don't matter. What does matter is teaching these young guys 1. discipline... 2. respect in themselves and others..... 3. a sense of pride in what they can accomplish on their own. .....4. They don't need to follow when they have the desire to lead.
They're not all bad, but they can all learn from sacrificing a couple years to this country.
There are fast carpenters who care..... there are slow carpenters who care more.....there are half fast carpenters who could care less......
I personally think this kind cannot be changed. They can change themselves if they want but you can never change them.
Totally agree. Wasted lots of time trying to change them. Hasnt worked yet. If they are sorry...tell them you are sorry too as you hand them their last check.
I kinda think you are doing them a favor by being swift with the meat cleaver because it MAY be the shock to the system that they need.
Had a guy I hired that I told him to plan on 50-60 hours a week. The most he ever worked was 37 (the rest was in the 20s). He always had an excuse "My momma's water pipe busted and I gotta fix it"...."My dog killed another dog and I gotta deal with it" " I had a car wreck...gotta get...." "I gotta get moved" (found out later he was camping) "I gotta build a fence for my dogs" He was NEVER on time for work. He ALWAYS wanted to get off early
When I gave him his walking papers and told him why, he said "But I thought I worked hard enough when I was here." Shoulda planted a boot up his butt.
I look down my nose at people who dare to look down their nose at people.
Boss .I have to agree,,,,,jus dont wanna turn this into a military conversation..Thats a separate controversial thread
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, I used to get aggravated too. I used to let the aggravation build. Not any more.
If a guy isn't walking fast enough, I tell him to come with me. I briskly walk around the house. The guy will have to run to catch me walking. As we get to the end of the trip, I tell him that if he is going to stay on the crew, he will have to walk that fast all the time.
I'm showing him, not telling him.
They usually quit.
If a guy aggravates me, in any way, I get rid of him early. My life is too important to me to be working in an aggravated state. I simply tell him that we won't be able to work together, thank him and tell him his time is stopped. End of subject, end of discussion. If he doesn't leave immediately and wants to talk, I will give him the courtesy of telling him that he's aggravating to me, that it's my fault and there is nothing we can do. Its a personality issue. If he wants to debate or argue, I simply tell him he has to leave. If he does'nt leave immediatly, I tell him that he is tresspassing and that I'll have to call the police if he doesn't immediatly begin walking off the job.
Don't let someone drag you down.
blue
the ones who can't pick up their feet get the heavy lifting.