I own a Stih MS250C Chainsaw. Bought it yesterday, and it runs perfectly. I have did a lot of cutting today and it seems like the lubricant oil is not getting on the chain but I’m not sure how much oil is really supposed to be visible.
It worked all day perfectly but at the end of the day the engine starts smoking not from the carberator, but from the chain and were the chain connects to the saw.
After removing the chain and bar, I cleaned everything and made sure that the oil was full. As a matter of fact, I refilled the oil once earlier in the day. Looking at the chain, it looks as if the chain is getting burnt.
Took it back to the shop where I purchased and the guy there tested it on a tree and got the same results. He said it is getting good power and that the smoke was from burning chips (that part didnt sound right to me).
All I can figure was maybe I used it too much and it overheated and everything got bit too hot.
Anyone have any input I would greatly appreciate it.
Replies
For what little I know...
MY past experience with such creatures doing the same as you describe were due to either:
The chain being too tight. Heats up the end bearing. Over time, you can see a discoloration of the metal around that bearing due to the heat buildup. or,
The chain is dull. Smokes like a hippy and cuts tiny chips - more like sawdust rather than big chips.
Any other ideas, guys?
But the saw is only a day old. Could I have dulled the chain that fast? I checked the chain tension regularly because my neighbor whos had a saw for a long time warned be about that too.
Edited 7/20/2003 8:34:43 PM ET by larleb
Brand new, or new to you ?
Find a good shop to MAKE a new chain for you. Even if the saw is brand new. Tell the shop that you want an aggressive chain.
Mfgr's are becoming notorious for putting chains on that have too much safety in the rake, etc.
I have forgotten more about this than I remember, but that is the jist of it.
Yes, you can dull a chain fast if you are letting the bar touch the ground at all.
To test whether there is enough oil or not...
Hold the bar over a light colored surface. Rev the saw, holding it for a couple seconds. A line/film of oil should appear on the light colored surface. Oil should be flung off the chain, to create that oil on that surface. The oil should accumulate very quickly.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
"Could I have dulled the chain that fast?"
It only takes a couple of seconds dropping it into the dirt to take the edge off.
Or a few minutes of cutting where the bark is dirty with grit.
I've had a chain cut clean all day and I've managed to bungle it up almost before it warms up..
Excellence is its own reward!
Read the manual to see if it is a manual or automatic oiler. Maybe you need to press something to manually oil the chain. Check for a blockage at the point where the oil comes out, sometimes it will clog up with woodchips, but I think something else is wrong. You may have a defective saw.
When you refilled it you could have gotten saw dust / dirt in the oiler system restricting the oil flow. The bar would get oil, just not enough. Dull chains can generate a lot of heat. Nick the ground once or twice and you'll have your dull chain.
Cutting the base of the tree? The bottom 3 or 4 feet of the tree is hardest / toughest part, wood / pitch wise, of the tree. Big trees and can be the as much as 5 feet. Long time stand dead can be like cast iron.
What kind of tree? What does your saw dust / chips look like? When you started and at the end of the day. Compare them.
Well to answer a few questions here. The saw is brand spakin' new. I didnt hit the ground at all. I cleaned out the area under the cover. I'm going to try again tomorrow and see if the same thing happens.
Get yourself an aggressive chain for tomorrow. Happens again, swap out the chains. Still happens swap out the saws.
My chain saw has an automatic oiler, my mechanic says that the oil reservoir should empty about the same speed as the gas tank. If the tank emptys well before the oil that is an indicator that the oil feed is being blocked by something. Start up the saw and hold the tip of the bar close to a log, sheet of newspaper or something. Rev it and you should see a spray of oil on that surface. If not, I would suspect the oiler is not feeding properly.
I also have a miniature lube gun to lube the chain. You may find a hole near the chain geer at the end of the bar, that is for grease.
You may not have to hit the ground. Sometimes those logs or trees we cut have sand particles amongest the bark. They, too, will kill your chain - fast.
I like the suggestions about a more aggressive chain.
One other thing that I thought of. The manual says to not use the saw at full throttle for the first 3 tanks of gas to break it in. Honestly, I dont know how I was supposed to do that and get this job done. I'm through about 1.5 tanks now but cant help but wonder if I damaged something using it too much at full bore.
Swap out the saw? I didnt get the impression that the shop thought anything of this problem. I guess if I go back again and make an issue of it they probably would. They seem to have a good reputation in the area.
On the side of the saw are 2 adjustment screws. One for low idle the other for high rpm / run. Cut back on the high run rpms untill the break in period is over. Then go for it. I have the 0.33 and 0.49 saws. Any burning I ever experienced was first from a dull chain and 2nd from crud built up in the sprocket. Interpitation of dull leaves a lot open for debate.
All day cutting for me can be more than 4 or 5 tanks of fuel and at least 2 chains. I also use really agessive Oregon chain. Can't remember for sure but I think the are 38's. Don't quote me on this. When the saw isn't producing shavings the chain is dull. Sharp chains are less work for every thing and every body.
Make sure the sprocket pitch and profile match the chain (it should with a new saw). And especially if you go to an "Oregon" chain and ditch the Stihl chain.
Check the bar slot; it may have a pinched spot. Turn the bar over and see if you get the 'blue heat on the new 'bottom." (The bars are reversible).
The chain is sharp if you're pulling consistent chips and not sawdust and/or your cut is straight and not curving left or right and you're not having to force the saw.
I have had an 025 for about six years, use it a lot and have had no problems. Good saw!
The store guy is full of baloney!
Luka gave you the best way to check for lubrication.
On that saw, you should use a tank of oil for every couple tanks of gas. As a practice, I always fill the oil reservoir when filling the gas tank.
Use real bar oil (has a tacky additive and is clean). Don't use used motor oil; accelerates chain and bar wear.
Wear chaps...and a hardhat if falling trees, even little ones.
I love chainsaw threads!
Notchman, thanks. BTW is the 025 the same saw as mine? Mine is the MS250C but the guy had an 025 there and said mine was only different by having the quick chain adjuster (not sure about that thing being as good as the traditional one) and the quick open fuel and oil caps.
Thanks for the info. I'm going down to the basement now to see if the bar is damaged. I'll repost in a few minutes.
Anyone think I might not have broken the saw in slowly enough? The smoke is not coming from the engine though. I tried the oil test mentioned above and it left some oil in the ground.
I would hate to think that a Stihl would have this sort of problem right out of the box. Not sure how cool the dealer is going to be if I request a swap.
Stihl is a good company. Don't let a dealer push you around. (Usually they're pretty decent about making good, but then I live in timber and logging country so the saw shops are pretty good about working with customers).
Larb,
Do yourself a big favor and go to the place you purchased the saw from and buy a chain file and guide tool. Have the guy show you how to properly sharpen the chain. When I was heating my house entirely with wood back a few years, I was cutting all my wood myself. I used to touch up the chain after every tank of fuel. It only takes about 3 minutes once you get the hang of it. It really sounds like you have a dull chain already, and yes it can happen that fast, especially with "dirty" wood. Take a look at the wood you cut...if there is any burning at the cut, thats where your smoke was coming from. Also, dont be afraid to cut with the thing...the chain does not like to be lightly loaded...put some pressure on it.
Hope this helps,
Bill
Thanks, I'll look into that. I did look for the burn marks on the wood but there werent any. I'll have to look and see if the chips are less coarse and more like sawdust as someone mentioned above.
Guy at the shop told me not to force the cut too much. Said to let the chain do the work. Is that incorrect? I wasnt leaning on the saw much but I did give it a little force here and there. Only thing I can think of was i had to let the saw take its path and sometimes, the way I was standing on a hill I had a tendancy to pull the saw left or right a bit. Not much though.
If it doesnt cut right tomorrow, I'm going back to the shop first thing this weekend.
Most people above say the chain might be dull but there arent any burn marks on any of the cuts I made. None. All the smoke was coming from the saw itself near the end sprocket on the saw under the chip cover. I dont by the "its the burning chips" thing that the guy at the store said.
???
If all else fails, you can always go this route:
That's not a saw. That's a page out of a book.
I can run out to the shop and get a picture of the real thing, if you want.
No worries about fuel mixture with it!.
Excellence is its own reward!
Sorry, no time to take a pic. I've got 11 of them, from 5' to 9 1/2'. All sharp and useable, were mostly my late Dad's; from CCC camps to logging in the early 50's.
I agree with the dull chain scenario. If a tooth doesn`t try to grab a dry fingernail dragged across it, it`s dull. Keep your filter clean. Dull chains create havoc with the air fuel mixture when the dust clogs the filter. Don`t monkey with the mixture screws unless you know what you`re doing. They`re pretty touchy with the smaller saws and you should have a tach to set them up right. Too lean and it`ll cut like a Frick on steriods....but only till it locks up. About 1/32 of a turn can mean several hundred RPM at top end and then more than your chain will be smokin. They`re normally set up rich from new and should be adjusted back after several tanks. IMHO, Stihl chains are way too soft but I love their saws, I have three. Oregon chains seem harder but are slightly harder on files. It`s a trade off.
You sound new to chain saws so, please, learn about kick-back and what causes it. Read the book! Twice if necessary! Your neck shouldn`t have that bright red liquid shooting out of it. If it does, you weren`t paying attention. Good luck and watch your top knot.
I don't think you've done any damage to the saw by not coddling it for the first 3 tankfuls. Even if you had, it would be the engine, and not the chain/bar/clutch.
I really think your problem is going to be solved by getting a more agressive chain. One that is made for the particular saw. A good shop will have a look at the saw. At the bar, the clutch, etc, and will know exactly the right chain for it.
How much oil was there, and how fast did it collect ? My preference is to have a lot of oil collecting fast. Oil is cheap. Chains and bars are not. I mix chainbar oil, and 30 weight in a half and half ratio.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Are you using the Stihl chain oil? In Orange gallon plastic bottles? I've used that religiously on an 026 and have gone through 6 chains...each one touched up and ground multiple times until there's not much tooth left. Still using the original bar and sprocket, and I've never gotten the bar hot enough to smoke, even with a less-than-sharp chain.
Stihl does carry a more aggressive chain...they really work well on the 026...keeps it in the right rev range for maximum power and less pressure required. You end up alot less tired after a day of cutting. Tends to jump back at you just a little more, but you've got to be wary of that anyway.
Constant pressure till you hear the motor start to load but not bog down and a constant stream of shavings.
Be anal about keeping the FOD (crud) out of your tanks when you refill.
Sthil is a surburb company. Have had there saws for a long time. Routine maint and they work for what seems forever.
If you interested. I know where there is 52ci with a 72" two man bar is.
All the saws I've owned had an adjustable chain oiler. Turn a nut/screw/adjuster thingy. Check your manual and adjust till it's like Luka said, flinging oil everywhere.
I am willing to bet on the dull chain as well. First make sure that it is sliding on the bar freely. If you cannot pull the chain by hand easily, your bar is to tight/or gummed up. Then make sure that the oiler is running enough oil on the chain to make it spray at wide open throttle. Then sharpen/replace the chain. I used to keep spares, and get several sharpened at once, as it was quicker to change them instead of stopping to file. If when the saw first hits the wood, it does not pull itself in, the chain is dull, no hard pushing should be needed. If your chips are much smaller than dime sized, sharpen. In case you cannot tell, I believe sharp chain is the key to enlightenment and happiness. Good luck.
Dan
Stihl's green chain is a hunk of junk its one of those safety chains. It wont cut worth a damn. Get the Yellow chain. Learn to adjust your chain, Lifting the chain on the top side of the bar. properly you should be able to lift it about 1/4 inch and when you release the chain the bottom side should NOT drop.
Your technique may also be at fault. If youre pushing or forcing the saw then youre not using the best method. Let the saw do the work thats why youre not using a buck saw.
Yes you can dull a chain faster then you think if youre not careful. Dried wood is hard on saws. If youre throwing a dust like waste then your saw is dull or the wood is dry. Ideally you should be throwing flakey chips. Dust waste also tends to clog up your cog wheel at the powerhead. Keep it clean since the dust will cake up with bar lube.
Make sure your anti kick back chain lock down lever gizmo isn't partially ingaged. That might be the clutch yur smoking.
The chain brake was going to be my guess on this one too, seeing as how I just made a bunch of smoke with a chain saw myself by having that brake partially engaged. It's pretty easy to do and my saw smoked for a good five minutes after I shut it off.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
I'll check the chips and see if they are smaller than they should be but to be honest with you, the smoke didnt smell like wood burning but more like metal frying if thats the right terminology. Nothing inside the cover, bar or chain is blued to indicate it overheated though.
Clutch? I engaged and disengaged the chain brake when starting. Pretty sure I pulled it back all the way when I was ready to saw.
Just called Stihl technical support. They said what many of you have been saying. Its a dull chain. He said most likely, it dulled, and the pressure I was putting down on the saw to compensate caused the clutch to burn a bit.
He said I most likely didnt damage anything but recommended to go back to the dealer and first have them check it again and second purchase a sharpening kit.
I'll post and let you all know what I found out.
Thanks for all the help
Last Xmas a buddy got me a single speed dremel tool and 2 boxes of chainsaw blade bits. Makes life a whole lot easier.
If yer far out from power, a file in your pocket might save the day though...
Mike
Do you use the dremel and bits with a jig/attachment or just free hand? I have a hard time with the sharpening attachments that clamp on to the bar with the chain slipping and getting off-angle when you push the file through. Hard to maintain a constant angle with the file and I end up with some teeth off-angle or some teeth duller than others.
No way have I ever been able to do a decent job with a file free-hand with no attachment.
Seems like the dremel would be easier, faster, and more accurate than an attachment and file.
Just free hand. No, most of the cuts aren't perfect, but it's a chainsaw! Really though, once you get the hang of it, it's easy for muscle memory to swing the bit over for the opposing angle as you walk down the chain. I've found it easier to inch the chain along with one hand and just swing the dremel back and forth as the blade angles switch.
Mike
Easier than a file huh?
Do you leave the chain on the bar? Clamp the bar in a vise?
I found out I didn't have the knack with a file years ago bucking rosewood in Belize. That stuff is hard on chains! Luckily there was an old-timer also camped in the bush with his own rosewood operation who volunteered to touch up my chains.
By the way, we used the rosewood off-cuts split up for firewood for the cooking fire. Burned like a cross between dry white oak and dry cherry. Like burning dollar bills if you had those chunks up here.
Yeah, I'm much too lazy. I just plop the chainsaw up on my workbench, and go to it.
The chain's got some movement on the bar so clamping it wouldn't do much anyway.
I'm not expecting perfect results, either. Just useable for the relatively light use it gets here. Don't get me wrong, my fast and sloppy technique works, I just don't expect the blade to be as good as a new one. At some point, I debate the time v. the $$$ for a new chain.
Mike
I use a file.
At about a quarter apiece, I don't waste my time with dull files, either. Use one until it starts to act like its getting dull, toss it and grab a new one.
Sometimes I get through a couple chains, sometimes I only get partway through a single chain. Depends on how bad the chains have gotten.
As for being as precise as some of my more anal friends are with their chains.... I have learned that as long as you get every tooth sharp, and they are somewhere within certain sloppy limits, the chain cuts very well, and doesn't wander. Most people I know are very very careful to make sure there is exactly the same amount of tooth left on each tooth. They take exactly the same number of strokes per tooth, etc. I try to keep it close, but I don't get anal about it.
Bah ! Just sharpen the dang thing, and get back to the fun stuff !!!
I just sit my saw on the nearest convenient waist-high spot, and go at it with the file. I mark one tooth. Then I go around the whole chain, doing the tooth on one side. When finished, go around the whole chain doing the tooth on the other side. Makes it a bit easier to keep the file at the right angle, when yer not switching back and forth every other tooth.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
get back to the fun stuff LOL
Your probably right about doing one angle, then switching being easier to keep the file aligned. I'll try that next time.
The dremel bits wear out pretty fast too. If I did it more often, I'd buy a carbide bit.
Mike
What saws do ya have? I've got a Craftsmen 18"(I think Poulin makes it), and A McCullogh 14"....friend of mine just gave me the McC, said it didn't run.
It was out of gas. i told him and offered it back, he just said "Nah, keep it, I got a new one" Okee dokee.
Ok folks...heres an update.
Took the bar to a shop today. It was slightly bent and burned a bit. Chucked it and bought a new one. I'm starting from scratch. Hurts to have spent $$$ on a new chain and bar but I've learned my lesson and now I'm starting over. May sound extreme but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
The guy at this shop was great too. He showed me more on how to clean the saw, bar and chain than the dealer where I bought the thing in the first place. Think I found a new shop.
Well...if its not raining tonight, I'm going to cut the rest of that tree but this time I wont hit the ground, get the bar stuck, and I know how to clean the darn thing out.
Thanks for all the help and putting up with my rookie questions.
You got the bar stuck? One pinch is all it takes.
Husqvarna has some good video on using chainsaws and felling trees; I believe Stihl does too- check their website. http://www.stihlusa.com/knowhow/knowhow_lit_video.html
I burn about 10 cords a year at home, plus I take a few contracts each spring, either for woodlot maintenance or to clear-cut for construction. My saw is a 25-year-old Jonsered 70e; (72cc engine) with a 16" bar and I'm running Oregon chain. It weighs enough that at the end of a day, my left arm is two inches longer than my right....
From what you described, it's almost certain you burned the bar by having the chain too tight when you started using the saw. A properly adjusted chain will look WAY too loose to a newbie; you should see about three tits hanging free of the bar below it in the middle of its length when the saw is shut down--and this should be at the tightest spot on the sprocket. Sprockets are not perfectly round. As you hand-walk the chain around the bar, you will feel the chain get looser and tighter as the sprocket turns. Adjust your chain for the tight spot. Make sure the bar is cocked UP when you tighten the bar nuts (i.e.: push the nose of the bar down hard against the workbench with the adjusters loose, hold it there while you adjust the chain to the right tension, and then tighten the bar nuts still holding the bar down hard until they're tight).
Amost all modern saws (last 25 years) have automatic oilers; you should go through about one tank of bar oil per tank of fuel mix.
A pro can easily file the chain on a stump in the bush, going freehand. But the new rotary stones to fit an eighth-inch chuck tool, like a Dremel, are great. Files dull-out real fast when you try to file off hardened metal, like that which occurs in your chain when you've hit sand or small rocks with it. The rotary stone will grind this hardened metal off without even blinking. Dremel makes a 2-speed cordless model that doesn't have a lot of power, but you don't need a lot to sharpen a chain. It works beautifully in the bush. (If you're going to be out there for a few days, take a couple of spare batteries with you.)
You should always use basic safety gear when chain-sawing: Mesh face shield, ear muffs, hard hat (you can buy a combo set in your chain-saw shop that's definitely worth the price) and big, stiff-gauntlet gloves. You should also consider investing in a pair of chainsaw boots and/or chaps, which have kevlar fluff in the front of the legs to jam-up the teeth in the saw when your tired arms let it dip down and touch your leg--believe me, this will happen to you if you run it long enough (it happens quite often when trying to start the saw). If you don't have some kind of leg protection, you'll be limping for a while, if you're lucky....
Watch out too, when de-branching your tree. It's easy to lose track of where your legs are. That's why chain-saw boots are bright orange.
For splitting, I use an 8-lb smooth-sided maul with a 36" handle. Wrap the handle just below the head for about eight inches with two or three layers of hockey tape, wound neatly and very tightly. If the handle doesn't have a factory-dipped non-slip grip at the butt end, wrap hockey tape on the end, too. An 8-pounder is sufficient with practice to split anything up to about 16" diameter. The trick is to make sure you have one very large and solid splitting block upon which to place the log you want to split. If you try to split a log sitting on the ground, it will just bounce. You need that solid backstop. Standard face cord wood is cut to 16" long (real handy to run a 16" bar when you're cutting that stuff; you just measure with the bar itself); kitchen stove wood is 12".
If you get your bar stuck in a tree, drive a small axe into the cut behind the bar to open the cut up so you can pull the saw out. Alternatively, get a rope on the tree up as high as you can and try to pull the tree the other way so the kerf opens. If that doesn't work, find another chain saw and cut off the tree above yours. (If you get both chain saws stuck, take a picture and post it here so we can all ROTF&LOL!)
Be careful!
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Thanks for all the tips. I'm learning a lot from this whole thing. Whats the best way to cut a tree up once its on the ground without hitting the ground with the saw? Jack it up a bit? How and with what?
Make as many cuts as you need to (cuts about 16" apart) without hitting the ground, until you get to a point where you can cut all the way though. Usually, since firewood logs are seldom arrow straight, there will be a point where you can get all the way through. Then roll the log over and cut through all those cuts from the top.
A peavey pole works great to help roll over a big log.
I generally limb the tree first. Then I stick pieces of the limbs under the trunk where there is space between it and the ground. That keeps the saw off the ground, and helps keep the saw from binding as the trunk settles.Q: What's the difference between a golf ball and a "g-spot"?A: Men will spend 30 minutes looking for a golf ball.
A cant hook like this one http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&langId=-1&catalogId=4006970&PHOTOS=on&TEST=Y&productId=7279&categoryId=1466 or this one http://www.aubuchonhardware.com/search.asp?searchType=0&search=cant%20hook might help. With plenty of practice you should develop the touch and feel needed to cut trees on the ground without one of these.
First cut into 4' cord lengths; look for places where you can cut 95% of the way through w/o hitting the ground. Learn to 'read' the bends of the trunk and where it's supported or compressed so you don't get the bar pinched. Cut as far down as you can without hitting dirt or getting the saw stuck, then roll the trunk until the uncut portion is up. Use a peavy, or the spikes on your boot. Then finish the cuts.
The 4' lengths you should be able to maneuver around pretty handily. Repeat the same operation, now cutting into 16" face-cord lengths. You get three 16" logs from each 4' cord length.
Split, stack, and cover with scrap tin roofing or something to keep the rain off, and let dry a year for semi-dry, 2 years for dry. (Note that if you cut the tree in the summer, it won't really be semi- or dry in that time, it'll take another summer in the sun.)
Firewood should be cut in December or January, when the sap content of the tree is at its lowest annual level. Do not do this alone the first time! Go with someone experienced to learn how. Frozen trees can behave very unpredictably and you can get killed in an eye-blink by la chaise du barbier; literally translated, that's 'the barber's chair'--I don't know what that's really called in English; it's when a tree explodes or splits while you're cutting it and the butt snaps out and hits you in the chin, breaking your neck instantly (this is no joke).
I also noticed a few of the guys talking about kickback, but nobody explained how it happens.
The chain-saw will kick upwards violently when you try to engage the TIP of the bar into the wood, or if you are cutting with the top edge of the bar and you get too close to the tip. The saw will first push back towards you, then spin upwards towards your face as the tip 'walks' up the wood. It can happen so fast you won't even know what hit you until you wake up in the hospital with tubes running out of you every which way.
To avoid kickback, avoid trying to saw with the tip of your saw. There are ways to do this, but not while you're learning. Just like you don't give somebody a circular saw and ask them to make a plunge cut on a wall over their head on the first day....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Excellent class.
Yeah, I guess I do sound a bit like the 'teach'. Hope I'm not putting anybody to sleep (LOL)....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Not hardly... You know how it is.
You do something for so long and learn so many tricks and secrets that come time to pass the smarts on it's so easy to over look so much of the important and not even relize it.
Kick back... You know when you lobotmize yourself in a most radical fashion... You know how it happens. How to prevent it but you fast foreward to the out come and forget to explain everything else. Wasn't intended.
We all do it unless something stops us and makes us think. The more experienced you are at something, the less likely you are to be consciously aware of exactly why you do it that way.
One thing I think I learned when I was running my first business years ago was that the act of teaching something to a new employee forced me to analyze what I had been doing based on instinct and experience, and I thus improved my own performance in so doing. Having figured that out, I would then assign the person I had given basic training to to train someone else--and they would learn better the same way, and so on.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
One of the things that helped me keep my body away fro m the saw, was to use a large set of loppers to cut branches out the way. Seems like most of the time, I have had more problems with little stuff getting hung up, than with larger logs. Be careful to stay on the uphill side of the log, if doing any slope work. Ending up at the bottom of a gully with a tree on top of you is not as fun as it may sound. Saw was still running, but i never will figur how i avoided serious hurt. Just be slow and careful, you have the rest of your life to get profecient at it.
Dan
Ok, guys now that I've solved the problem with the saw, I had fun splitting all the wood I cut up today. Good excercise. Might sound like a dumb question but what do you put the split wood on instead of the ground to prevent it from rotting and picking up moisture?
Put it on a couple of sleepers per row of logs, either 2x's or tree scrap of appropriate size.
Another suggestion is packing skids if you have a few lying around.
Stack it under cover to keep the rain off; but leave plenty of ventilation so it'll dry correctly.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
The limbs you trimmed off of the tree. Try for the 4" rounds. Keep the splits dry and ventilated.
Thanks for the warnings. I read and listened carefully to my neighbor who told me the same. Makes me want to get out the bow saw and resort to old fashioned elbow grease. Realistically, not an option though.
I'll be real careful.
How though, especially if the tree is on the ground, do you keep your torso and upper extremities 100% out of the way? There were several times I knealed one knee on the ground to the side instead of leaning over the saw from a standing position. Is this not a good practice?
I went looking for a link to the Quebec CSST (our Workman's Comp Commission) training manual for chain saw operation, but I couldn't find the manual as a PDF and the description of the course was only available in French on the site I visited.
Basically, there is no such thing as '100% out of the way' in reality. What you must do is make sure you've got enough physical control of the tool at all times that you can counter sudden moves on its part due to the reactive forces the chain pushing against the wood can cause. When you're running a chain saw:
Make sure of your footing; chain-saw boots worn by professionals are often spiked to help prevent you from slipping. Keep your stance wide and be especially careful when you're in brush and can't easily see your feet, and when you're working on a slope. When you're felling a tree, make sure you've got a pre-planned escape route worked out BEFORE you make the cut that will drop it.
Try never to work with the saw held higher than your waist. Chain saws are heavy; if you try to work with the thing held up high, you'll be using a lot of your strength just to hold the durn thing up and that strength won't be available to help you control it.
When you're debranching a tree or cutting it into logs on the ground, keep both feet on the ground (DON'T put one foot on the trunk; when you cut it through it will move and throw you off balance), and turn slightly sideways to the trunk. This will place one leg behind you; you keep that leg straight and flex the forward leg. You work with the saw basically in front of and below you, with the trigger elbow held relatively tightly against your ribs and your other hand steering and raising and lowering the saw bar into the wood. If the saw kicks back, you must be prepared to swing it up and outward away from your body so it passes you. It's like judo: don't try to stop the saw from coming up but steer it past you and step a little out of the way at the same time.
Obviously, no one else should be anywhere near you while you're cutting.
The safest cutting position is using the bottom of the bar with the body of the saw motor blocked against the wood. In this position, the saw won't kick back and you basically just hold the trigger down and wait for the chain to chew down through the wood.
Cutting with the top of the bar and pulling the saw up through the wood is more dangerous. The saw will be pushing back at you the whole time, trying to walk out of the kerf backwards. If you let this happen and the tip gets into the kerf, it will suddenly kick straight up and you'd better be ready to guide it away from you.
I don't recommend kneeling while sawing; you're too immobile in case you've got to move out of the way quickly, and you're probably going to place yourself closer to the saw than is a good idea.
Finally, just like anything else, if something about a situation or position doesn't feel right to you, STOP and figure out something else before you unlock the chain brake.Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
I'm going to have to get some of those bits. How much are they ?
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
The stones I got for xmas are $4-$5/pair, the carbide bits are $10-$20.
Mike
I forgot to tell you what saw I have.
It's an old Husqvarna 380CD.
22 inch bar. 3/8 chisel tooth aggresive oregon chain.
The rings are bad enough that it takes a shot of ether to get it started the first time, but once warmed up, it will start all day long, run like a charm, and cut like a champ. Cuts through alder like cutting soft butter.
Biggest tree I've felled with her was about 38" across.
I bought it for 50 dollars. I have put another 120 or so into chains, a bar, a new sprocket, etc. All that was paid back in multiples with the first tree I felled and hauled to the sawmill.
I've got an old yeller mc 14" too. My first saw when I moved out here. It was in some junk. I had to tear it down completely, and rebuild it to get it to run. I don't think It'll even start now. I gave up working with/on it, when I got the husky. The mc is hard to start once it warms up.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
What is a "chisel tooth" chain and how does it differ from the "green" chain that came with my Stihl. The guy at the shop said I shouldnt use a "Yellow" chain because I am too new to using a chainsaw. I agreed.
A chisel tooth is a really aggressive chain and will dig in... The green and yellow chains.. Well think in terms of a traffic light with the chisel tooth being red. Each color being a different agressiveness and danger level.
Move to a chisel tooth only after you gain some experience. Chisels are infameous for kicking back and eating your shorts or worse.
Thanks. I thought that was the answer. No I kinda like having both my legs intact.
Kick backs usually do a number on the upper body. The face and head seem to be the #1 target.
Man I'm getting chills just thinking about it.
Mike
I recently (last coupla of days) read an article about a guy (in California, I think) that died from using his chain saw. Apparently he slipped and cut his leg, hit the artery and bled to death - fast.
Those leather chaps probably would have saved his life.
These other posters are not kidding about "kickback." You must learn about that and prevent it from happening.
In a nutshell, the chisel tooth chain has a square tooth, and the green chain tooth is round. The green chain also has a larger rake, so less of the tooth is allowed to bite into the wood.
Here is an exellent article that explains this and much more... much better than I could in the time I have...
http://www.sawmillmag.com/full_article.php?ArticleID=75
The shop guy wants to sell more chains. Get the yellow chain. You'll never look back. I was frustrated with playing around with the "reccommended safety" chains for long enough. Got the yellow chains, and wished I'd gotten one right away.
The safety chain is a big part of the reason you had problems with your bar and chain. It takes more pressure to cut with a safety chain.
The problem is like what I learned as a youngster. A dull knife is much more dangerous than a very sharp one.
A "safety" chain causes people to push harder, and do stupid stuff trying to get the saw to cut like they know it should. I'd lay odds that the guy who pushed down on the bar with his hand, to "help the saw cut", was, among other things... using a safety chain, and was frustrated that his saw was not cutting like his buddies' saw.
The saw should be doing the work for you. If you can't lay your bar on the log, and watch the saw cut it's way into the log aggressively... without any downward pressure from you... Then the chain is either dull, or it's a safety chain. That saw should dig in, and just keep going, all on it's own.
Mine does !
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
That 22" Husky'll probably cut through just under it's own weight even when it's not running!
Mike
ROFLMFatAO
Sometimes just the threat of using it is enough.
Last winter I had an alder that was leaning way over, above my trailer. Every time I looked, it was closer to the trailer.
I finaly got out the husky, walked out there, pointed it at the tree, made a vroom vroom sound, and the tree stood up, then toppled over at an angle that didn't hit the trailer.
It's true, I swear it !!
; )
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
LOLLOLOOOL!!
*Run away.....run away......*
or:
"Sorry sir, no problem here, I'll be going now sir..."
Mike
I would think it might take a while cutting trees with a dremel equipped with a chainsaw blade.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
LOL, not as loud but much more annoying too!
Mike
Stihl often comes with "safety chain"---doesn't cut worth a damn. Get a chisel chain(Stihl brand)--
I ran a four man/saw team dressing out palm trees laying on the ground. One man stayed at the bench and just sharpened, adjusted, cleaned, fueled, and oiled for the other three.
To make a sharpening jig, use the saw to rip a kerf 1/4" to 1/2" deep down the center of a 2x4. Screw the 2x down at the edges first! Draw the correct angle 3-4 times both ways across the kerf then kerf out the lines with a skil or similar.
Chain insurance: Use a mustard squeeze bottle to note how much oil is normally used and compare every time. If it changes, fix it. I like to use slick50 about 4:1 so I don't ruin anything when the oil stops. And it will.
SamT
"Law reflects, but in no sense determines the moral worth of a society.... The better the society, the less law there will be. In Heaven, there will be no law, and the lion will lie down with the lamb.... The worse the society, the more law there will be. In Hell, there will be nothing but law, and due process will be meticulously observed."
Grant Gilmore, The Ages of American Law (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1977), pp. 110-111.From 32866.117
So wat happen to / with your saw / chain?
Well, I think this saga is coming to an end. I bought a new chain yesterday and tried it out on only one cut and it seemed to work great. Had to head for cover though because we had a nasty T-storm coming in.
Thats the last thing I need is after all this discussion to get zapped by lightning. That would be just my luck.
I'm having the shop check the bar today. I took it off and it has a very very slight warp in it. Not sure if its enough to worry about though.
I'll be sawing a bit more this evening. I'll post something later when I see the results.
Ps- what lb. mawl would you guys recommend for splitting wood?
Speaking from experience, <g>, a 5 HP splitter with electric start and 2 helpers to handle the wood onto and away from the splitter while you operate the hydraulic valve.
Lefty - Lurker without an attitude or a clue
I've always used an 8 pound splitting maul with a straight grained hickory handle. If you are looking at several, buy the one that has the grain lines straight all the way from the head to the handle end. If you miss alot, and bang up the handle right before it goes into the head, it will eventually break. The straighter the grain, the more abuse it will take. Pick up the straightest grained replacement handle you can find while you're at it.
Also, the 8 pound head will promote a little more accuracy versus a 10 pound, so if you have to hit the round more than once, you'll be more likely to hit in the same spot. Probably more important than the maul, is to cut the larger diameter pieces SHORT, for easier splitting.
You'll get opinions all over the map....it's one of those things like framing hammers or brand of pickup.
Don't remember how heavy my maul is (8-10lbs). I personally use both a maul, and a 10lb sledge with a couple wedges. On smaller stuff I use the maul, on larger the wedges.
The best thing I did, was buy the rubber handle protectors and put them under the head. That way if you overshoot, the wedge hits the rubber rather then the handle. These tend to slide downt the handle over time, so I wrap duct tape under them so they can't slide down. Handles last much longer if you protect them with these.
Yeah those are good, I've just never gotten around to putting one on. I put up and burn only 3 cords/year...about 1/2 is split, the rest from branches. My favorite is still standing-dead red elm.
Well, they're expensive. I got lucky, and bought mine on a going out of buisiness sale. Paid 20% of retail I think. Still over the last 3-4 years, I'd say they've likely saved at least one handle. Actually, I too don't burn much wood. Which means, that I don't split wood often, which means my accuracy when I do sucks. At least for the first 1/2 hour or so until I get in the swing of things.<G>
For me, not using much wood makes the handle protectors even more important.
Electric start 11hp splitter.
I think the best thing to use to split wood is an axe.
I start around the perimeter, cutting off pieces roughly the size of a 2X6. I skip over places where there are knots. Taking smaller "bites" like this makes it go quicker, IMHO. And it's less tiring.
But - This means you have to have wood that's WILLING to split. Get an old piece of elm and you're better off with the hydraulic splitters.
Using a huge splitting maul and busting huge pieces down the middle looks good. But there aren't generally any women around to impress when I'm splitting wood..............(-:A backyard barbecue draws two things ... flies and relatives.
Hate to pop your bubble Bossman, but my DW loves to run the woodsplitter! Fine by me. I set her up with a chair (my splitter goes vertical), gloves and an empty trailer while I go off, find a shady spot out of sight under a tree and nap. When the engine quits, the absence of noise wakes me up and I present myself, chainsaw in hand and say, "yes dear? Are we out of gas or something?"
My favorite maul is hydraulic.
20 minutes maintainence for every hour of use is the standard in the woods a sharp chain sure saves on the back and machine,if it takes 3 strokes of your file to sharpen one tooth take 3 on all teeth then turn around and do other side the more times you do it the better you get ,fill oil each time you gas up and don't fill gas all the way that way you are sure to run out of gas before oil use heavier oil in summer and lighter weight in winter, oh yeah pull cord to start. LOL