My client wants a softwood floor that is face nailed with the square head cut nails. Locally, I have found #2 and BTR 1×6 T&G Douglas Fir Flooring (no chamfered edges). I’m wondering if this would be an appropriate material. My local lumber store also sells what they call concrete cut nails. They look just like the old style cut nails, but I guess they are pretty hard if they are meant for concrete, so I wonder how they would handle being sanded. It also looks like I’d have to predrill the wood, at least at the ends.
Anyhow, I’m just looking for feedback, ideas, tips, etc. from anyone who has installed this kind of floor, or knows anything about the subject.
Thanks
Replies
Doug Fir is a very hard "softwood" use a lot for floors and cielings, trim, doors, etc.
Hardend cut nails should NOT be sanded...the sparks can set the sander on fire. any nail for that matter. set em deep and have at it.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Sphere,
you got work right now?
out the door as we speak..should have left ten mins ago..roofing in the rain..LOL.why? need something?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I'll just do it>
No I was just kind of surprised when you posted, you are working the schedule I like to keep, lol I need my coffee hours in the morning.
I was actually wondering if you had any stair jobs we could do together. lmao
Arrghh..you want MY hours? I doubt it. It was catzand dogs this AM about 40*....dropped like a rock this afternoon..hadda bail out an come home..( I already have a ccold, doan want no 'monia settin in)I am still subbing to greencu, but he don't ask me to do heroics..yet..LOL.We have a lot of lost time due to rain events..and the subzero that was here..looks like I am roofing Sunday.
That ol'''saw of make hay when the sun shines works alot better in january than august fer sure.So, where were we?Oh..Hey Doud..the nails MIGHT be better placed..I'd choose 1 inch from the edge, no matter HOW wide the plank , like shingles..IMO
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Oh..Hey Doud..the nails MIGHT be better placed..I'd choose 1 inch from the edge, no matter HOW wide the plank , like shingles..IMO...
yer right...don't know what I was thinkin'...I hereby recind the aforementioned suggestion...thinkin' back on it, I want to say we arranged them 1.25" in from the edge...
and it is the ends of the boards that really want to blow out...
ice on everything here, but could be worse - - spent the last 2 days in the shop, fire is going, tuning tools, a few little odd jobs - getting ready to wow myself...but gotta have the right day to wood-mizer...maybe tomorrow or saturday..."there's enough for everyone"
Sounds nice..we have mud to the knees..aaarrghh.I wasn't trying to dis ya about the nails..just what i have had blow up on me...LOLBandsaw show yet? Get a tennoner? c'mon..brag a little...lol.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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No, I wasnt looking for your hours, I was just messing with you about the stair guy in -MN- I think it would be a few to many states away in addition.
-zen
I know ya don't want my hours..we have a communication gap I think..my hours vs my hours..sure..I got it..HUH?I do hope he finds what he needs..didn't try to start a frigging war..now w e woke up bucky, god knows whats gonna drop from the rafters. (G)
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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lol I thought you were appropriate, but didnt want to get in it.
If I was looking for work where workers hang out, Id be very humble.
I almost offered an orange one, its been said to me, 'do what you do, or there is always the orange apron.'
Edit: there is no way I would give a job to a guy that spikes that easily.
Edited 1/6/2005 7:12 pm ET by zendo
Zendo...I have lowered my sights and secured entry level jobs, only in the start up phase. I admire the hutzpuh it takes these days, to put ones self on the market. A market that needs new blood.admitting or claiming the desire to better oneself, in ones chosen new profession is nothing to be picked on about..but persistance is a good thing as well.I did a similar move..I CREATED a position with a giuitar co. BECAUSE I WANTED IT..I wrote a "proposal" so to speak..I OFFERED my PROVEN abilities to them..in other words.." I am LOOKING for , or WILLING to CREATE a position with YOUR company...blah, blah , blah..it worked..I was hired as a 'production engineer' and got a LOT more than I asked for..funny huh?My days now, are what I call 'semi-retired' or "self-unemployed"that's my choice, no work, no pay..grow beans, raise a chicken or 50, have a cow man..be true to your self or your leanings, and life will..WILL supply you with what you need to survive,,,anything else, ya gotta WORK for..it's just how much do want to spend to achieve the goals tha ya set?I will email ya if ya want..or a new thread?BTW..I am putting down the semi-soft yellow pine panelling that was saved from the demo..as yup..my flooring..17" and wider, hand planed in the 1800's..and since 20 layers of wallpaper..call me a fool..I'll live thru it." A new life comes along every day, pick one" Kathy L. Kriebel..my ex-wife..............................
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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"Wood Mizer"? Did someone say "Wood Mizer"?
Did someone say "Wood Mizer"?
not in this thread...we are talkin' about some Taiwan recycled iron...makes you appreciate the good stuff...
got a couple of W-M jobs to do, but it's just been one extreme of unacceptable weather after another...mud/-0's/blowing snow/etc...may be able to catch a day tomorrow or sat..."there's enough for everyone"
Did someone say "Wood Mizer"?
not in this thread...we are talkin' about some Taiwan recycled iron...makes you appreciate the good stuff...
gawd, Jim - I don't know what I was thinking here to...of course I brought up the wood-mizer - then I forgot about it in the ongoing excitement...
oh well - situation normal...
"there's enough for everyone"
I wasn't trying to dis ya about the nails...
I know - glad ya caught it - like I said, I don't know what I wuz thinkin' of...
bandsaw is here, semi delivered it in the sleet storm - parked on the road, I positioned a car w/flashers on at the top of the hill, lifted the box on the pallet out with the tractor lift - slid it in the shop door - signed the papers, had him on the way 15 minutes -
thick paint with designed 'orange peel' to hide the thin sheet metal and mediocre casting (actually, I give it a solid 'B' on the casting and fit) I don't like the color - to be clear, it is adequate in all respects that I have dealt with, but after having some experience with good old american steel, well...I feel very slightly dirty...
got it tuned as well as I can with the supplied blade and lack of a 'real' job for it...put a bracket on it to hold the fence and the miter gauge, so I can keep the table clear - put a shelf in the bottom of the stand, blocked off the back opening, and I am working on the door - I'll go back out there after a bit - gotta find a different set of hinges -
it's gonna be useful...now I get to buy blades...
the bidders also agree with your selection on tennoner...auctions end tomorrow night, I'll be keeping an eye on them, may buy my second choice if the red one gets too dear...
"there's enough for everyone"
Good fer ya!..she's got a real life 'merican type home.Pull them 3/8ths by 3/8ths square metal blade guide blocks NOW (are they still an allen type screw?) and replace with some really hard wood sq. dowell type stuff..Sycamore comes to mind..LOLI use rosewood, or ebony..cuz I have scraps...just do this..until ya handle the blades and tracking..corian scraps work real good too..The Griz..wants ( or did) 3/8ths sq.we ust got the ice..thanks bro'..ya coulda sent it back to CANADA..LOL
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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roller bearing guides - this is the 'ultamite' bandsaw, after all....seems to work/adjust alright - I don't like the 'thumbscrews' that lock the adjustment - can't get'em tight enough with your fingers - pliers are gonna blow 'em out eventually... little things like that abound -
not complaining, just evaluating..."there's enough for everyone"
Hmmm..my Ridgid has the thumb screws with a plastic dip grip..I like that better than the allen wrench set screws just for the fact that I dont need to find a tool..Bearing guides? Damn..that is ultimate. I am jealous.Enjoy it, sounds like a good saw. do the knobs that open the wheel gurds (covers) have an elephant image on them? Elephant Mach. from Taiwan made most of Grizzly's saws in the old days, they bought the worn out molds from Delta, and started thier own casting from them.The fit and finish was not as good as Delta, but basically it's the same saw frame...gunna get the riser block? If so, don't buy too many 93.5 " blades..the riser booosts ya to 105"..and even with the 'Mizer, it's nice to have a good resaw inside where it's warm..(G).Happy sawing. ( or isit sawyering?)
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Thanks for the replies (the relevant ones at least). I had thought of sanding first and then putting in the nails for decorative effect. I'm glad someone else thinks this is a good idea.
I wish the coffee breakers would get their own thread to jack off on. It's kind of a drag to have to sift through all the B.S. Just my humble opinion of course ;)
sorry thumb I was an offender.
As for the after nailing, someone else had mentioned that in another thread, but in my experience the grease on the nails makes your hammer slip easily, and you do get some hammer dings no matter how hard you try, and how far the nail head is from the floor.
-zen
If you don't like the service you got here, you should ask for your money back.
Seriously, you got a ton of useful and relevant advice, and a little bit of chatting amongst friends in between. Quitcherbichin.
WTF? ya got the answers..ya can't have all wheat without some chaff BRO..take what ya want and LEAVE the rest..or don't.Y a wanna bitch and cry about it, be prepared for SOME flak..this is the cyber version of your wife ya know..?I enjoyed yer thread..as we all did...let's see some BVD's so we can do a cyber wedgie while were at it..you asked for it...um, this is where I apologize..sorrywho...??oh nevermind..yer too easy
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I'll just do it>
I thought you ended up with a wealth of info here already, with no participation from you at all - just the original request. This site is not a dry textbook. It is a bunch of real people, some interesting and some jerks, but most with real world experience and willing to share.Here is the magic of Breaktime though - we stick around at the ready for good questions like this to help out with BECAUSE this is an interesting place to be. If it were as dry as you ask for it to be, I could hit all the Qs that lok interesting in a few minutes to an hour like I do over at JLC, and then go watch TV Instead, we stick around commiserating with friends, and often -0the very best things i learn here are onthe tail end of threads when it wanders off subject after it has been beat pretty well to death.You want the thread to stay on topic? Answer some questions asked of you about it, or comment furtther on all the great stuff you have been given so far. A conversation implies that you are conversing too.
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you da man..contrite..
I was crass..thanks.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I'll just do it>
U was?O Dear!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
who'da thunk it of me..LOLBe ..ahhhh...jest yerself....
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Be a Piffin? Egocentric people allways mystify me. Like ole' Thumbsmasher here.He wants to rebuild the entire site and the culture it houses in order to satisfy <HIM> instead of working within that culture.It'sa pretty amusing paradox for him to call us vultures when he is getting good info for free.The word parasite comes to mind.vulture vs parasiteat least vultures have a better view.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I dunno...vultures have bald heads so the stink don't stick to them.If someone has a problem with a slight diversion from the original direction the therad was headed for..AND gleans some new info about a totally diffent set of circumstances, or P2P joviality..screw em with a LARGE Piffen screw..LOL
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Watch out for the edges, it's really fast out there...
How could ya get pizzed about the elephant story? Nuggets like that make this joint so informative and fun.
Your mileage varies
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Ask if 6 inches is wide enough, I've seen flooring as wide as 20 inches and perhaps that is what she has in mind..
Ive done that routine a ton of times and agree with Sphere, I think you can still find cut flooring nails by the case, HD might even have them.
I have done pine flooring like that with changing widths from 6-20 inches wide. Remember that the flooring will shrink, so acclimate it first, at least 2 weeks, and also know that by the time you cut nail a large room, your hand is going to feel like it will fall off... the resistance is high. Cut nails have a ton of grease on them to keep them from rusting, so it helps if you bring something you can regularly clean your hands with because your hands will be black, wipes at least.
#3 nail set and drop the nails deep. A chalk line doesnt work that well if you want to line up nails, its hard to get rid of, but run a line or something to keep the pattern straight its easy to go off course.
-zen
You'll get a nice rustic look. If the client has dogs it'll happen a lot faster. If this client is a perfectionist it is probably not a good idea. Don't waste a lot of money on expensive "hard" poly or oil finishes because it will still scratch, depending on how hard of use it will see.
Good advice from the others too.
I wouldn't plan on any nailing pattern. Random. Get a piece of thick plastic or steel with a notch cut into it to surround the nails as you whack 'em, that way if you miss you won't smash the DF.
It will shrink up next winter after it swells in the summer. Client should know that a 6" softwood floor has bigger gaps that a 2 1/4" hardwood floor in general. Expect it to happen. Obviously the wood itself will be key to that (whether heartwood, vertical grain, old growth, how well acclimatized, etc.)
If the subfloor isn't really tight, those nails can work themselves out over time. I did a floor similar to this about 15 years ago and periodically I have a few problem nails I have to set in deeper. One of them wants to move out almost a half inch! But this was over an ancient crawlspace that has a lot of movement and traffic, (retail space) as well as variation in humidity, heating, etc. Probably a fairly extreme example.
Make client aware that there will be "charming" seasonal gaps.
Not necessarily. Gapping can be controled and 1x6 is not very wide. Besides, Clear verticle grain fir is quite stable
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As far as nails go, if you want the the real McCoy- Tremont Nail.
http://www.tremontnail.com/index.htm
here's a link to Tremont Nail, who can supply you with just the cut nail you want for this installation.. http://www.tremontnail.com/index.htm
my experience is that you will want to drill for the nails - if you are worried about consistancy, I suggest you make a little jig, looking like a little T-square that you hook over the edge of the board - this jig will have 2 or 3 holes to position your drill bit - - 6" flooring, use 2 nails about 1/3 in from each side - not too hard to eyeball them, but whatever it takes...
the other thing you could do is use a hand plane to put a chamfer on the edges - if it would keep you from having to sand the floor, it would save a lot of time...
Does anyone know if using cut nails used for concrete (with rectangular heads) would be okay for using in flooring. I want the rustic look of nails in my 1x12 fir flooring, but can't quite afford the traditionally made square head nails? I'm imagining I'll pre-drill anyways. And sand first, then nail.
The decorartive hand made type rose heads traditionally used will have a dome shaped head, smaooth on top. The head of the cut nail is cut off square and rather sharper. Leaving such a nail up on the flooring will likely leave something unpleasent for bare feet and possible to snag socks on or a mop. Could even be a trip hazard for some people.
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...but can't quite afford the traditionally made square head nails?
surely the difference in cost between 'concrete' nails and headed nails wouldn't bust the budget...as Piffen noted, headless nails have disadvantages, and one he didn't mention is that headless nails don't cover round holes if you drill - and the heads are an important part of holding power of this design fastener...-
do you have a method in mind to secure the 1X12 flooring such that the cut nails are just for show? - - if you have a means to do that, buy some 4d headed cuts (you get a large # per pound of short nails) to save $...
"there's enough for everyone"
In the search I did, there was a tremedous difference in price... maybe I'll have to check a little more. I'll look into the 4d as well. Thanks.
nevermind. I found the afore mentioned 4d rosehead nails and at an unoutragous price. thanks again.
About a year ago I helped install a random width pine floor that the customer wanteds to have the cut nail exposed look. We installed the flooring with a flooring nailer, sanded the floor, and then added the cut nails where desired.
This eliminated the nailhead / sander problems. It also allowed us to use a lot fewer cut nails than would have been necessary if they were the only fasteners used. The customer wanted to see the nails, but she did not want to be overwhelmed with rows of nails. I think we spaced them @ every 4', 1 nail for boards 5" or less, 2 nails for boards 6" or wider.
clap, clap, clap..I wuz too lazy to type that part..gracias.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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