Leaks. The house was built in 1988, and the leaded copper decking is original. I have repaired several places inside directly under the exterior wall where the deck meets the exterior wall. I’ve taken off several courses of claps as well as the storm slider (a large version of a triple-track storm window) and counter flashed. There was no indication of leakage under the slider itself. The copper only extended up the side wall an inch at the least, maybe two at the most. I’ve about run out of ideas.
The owner is pretty tired of the decks (there are two of these, both leak) and their restrictions – no high heels, cleats, anything that could puncture the copper – and would like them replaced.
I don’t do much roofing, so I declined to touch the replacement of the decking itself. He found someone who has done work for him in the past, and that individual suggested putting a rubber membrane down over the copper, which doesn’t sound right.
What would you do to this, given no restrictions?
BTW, the circular rail follows the sunroom circular wall directly below, with matching radius windows and molding. Beautiful room to match the views.
“I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul.” Invictus, by Henley.
Replies
A rubber roof is easy to do, but I wouldn't wear my highheals on it.
I also wouldn't put rubber over the copper, for no other reason but what the copper is worth at the scrapper, and recovery board is probably the correct underlayment.
>>>>>>>for no other reason but what the copper is worth at the scrapper,Lead coated copper doesn't bring much at the recycler.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
I would have to dig out my receipts, but from memory, I think I got $1.20/lb ( or about½ what clean copper ws paying)for my last load of LC copper.
From the looks of the size of the roof in the picture, it would be worth the effort.
This doesn't answer your question, but the copper would have been a good deck if it was better crafted.
I'm thinking epdm over recovery board might be more susceptible to high heel punctures than epdm applied directly to the copper or sheathing if the copper were removed.
http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
If the copper goes (and I believe you are correct, that it is leaded copper) I was thinking sleepers and composite decking over the epdm.
And you hit the copper nail on the head about the craftsmanship; the guy would solder up a few rows, take a break, drink his lunch, come back - sometimes - and try some more. Took a long while to get it done, and getting the guy back to fix the leaks was next to impossible. He came out once, did some repair work that did nothing, then just faded away.
I've seen this type of material (soldered up copper sheets) on roofs, or sections of it, but not on decks.
If you look at the pics, there seems to be little advanced planning/layout, though I could be mistaken; there are maybe four 'patches' of sheets, I have to admit, though, the first time I noticed the pathwork is when I was looking at the pics.
Stupid question, what is recovery board? And do you think epdm over the copper is okay?
Thanks.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
EPDM over CUs seams would be OK.EPDM over my guys seams would do fine.But the seams I see in those photos are in some places standing up a quarter of an inch, right? And some of the soldering is so poor that there are sharp spurs you would not want to drag you knuckles over, right?That is what I mean - thaat the seams would abrade the rubber from bottom side up. Maybe you could re-heat the solder and work it down flat with a peen hammer and then be able to run over it with the rubber roofing. Recovery board is something lioke a cross between homasote and sheetrock, made to handle small mounts of moisture, and with integrity enough to fasten down. It then provides a nice smooth substrate to glue the EPDM to. The smoother the base under a rubber membrane, the longer it will last, all else being equal.
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I'm not certain that the leak is at the wall, I can only say that the water is dripping on the ceiling drywall at that point. I don't know what's under the copper. To isolate the wall and try to prevent further leakage without soldering, I used 6 inch bituminous self-stick flashing and lapped over the copper, sealing the flashing to the sheathing. I looked at it recently and it appears intact. Leakage has begun in a different area under the same wall (to the right of the slider, from outside).
You're right about the winds, hence the installation of the storm slider. And the claps are pretty beat, even SS ringshanks won't hold some of them down.
I figured once the new decking was down that the gap at the bottom of the rails would meet the 4" requirement, though I need to check the rail height, as that will change as well. If the railing has to come down, that's just as well, I'd like to see something else up there, though the radiused rails will be interesting. Unfortunately, the house has multiple decks with all the same railing setup, which impairs the view.
He and I have been knocking this project around for a while, mainly waiting until a good roofer can be found and my schedule can be aligned. The second deck, smaller with lesser leaks, has a yellowed and cracked polycarb skylight in the middle of it. Very little curb. The thinking there is to lose the skylight. It's in a sunroom that is all window walls anyway, so sunlight isn't an issue.
Thanks for the input.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Just curious. Its my understanding that lead coated copper is a very high quality, long lasting roof. I've never heard of it being used as decking though. Seems problematic.
Do you see it used this way often?
Tom
>>>>>>>>>>Do you see it used this way often?I've done probably 10 of them personally. Most see minimal traffic, but one is a museum porch floor (it's actually plain copper) that gets walked on as part of every tour. It's about 10 years old and is holding up fine.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
I'm not sure HOW yourepaired these at teh wall junction, but the flashing should have extended up the wall sheathing at least four or five inches and in some places eight inches. that coast must have enough wind to call for eight, instead of the one or two that you have.
If all the leaks are at the wall, the only thing needed is to finish the job by taking up siding and having more wall flashing soldered on there.
If he wants to be done with it, I would use EPDM rubber with separation board over the copper because those seams will certainly abrade it from underneath if adhered directly.
If he wants to wear his high heels, he'll just have to get another deck built over the rubber. Walkmat pads or IPE`
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Alll that green staining tells me that this does not drain well, so there is another leak or three waiting to happen where it puddles water anyway, so I would be inclined to use the EPDM rubber.
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BTW, tell him that his riling does not satisfy code either, you have to take it down to re-roof anyhow.
;)
Now tell me to quit looking before finding something else in the details....
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