I posted a question a few months back about the best way to take fittings apart so they could be reused, and the general consensus was to just throw them away, so That’s what I do now. But I still have an occassional problem with not getting the solder to flow into the joints sometimes. I sand the end of the pipe with plumbing cloth (150 I think), apply flux to the pipe and the inside of the fitting, and use mapp gas. Most times it works well, but sometimes the solder just won’t go into the joint. Why? Could I be getting the joint too hot? Should I go back to regular gas?
Do it right, or do it twice.
Replies
Tin the inside of the fitting before you insert the pipe. Shake out the excess tin. Tin the pipe as well. Wipe off the excess tin there with a paper towel or a sponge slightly damp. Slide them together heat it with whatever gas then run some solder in the joint.
If you are a pro the above would/ might take too much time but as an amature I always do that. Never had one fail. Most of my labor time is getting the tools and parts together not doing the work.
Be aware that according to the CDA (Copper Developement Association) tinning reduces the strength of the joint. Just FYI
Long time no see WHW. Where you been?
I saw this thread and was thinking that this would be right up your alley.
thanks. I was taking a needed break from Breaktime. I am doing better. Expect one of the best summers in my life so far. thanks again for asking.
Ok,
How does that differ from the assemble then solder, joint?
Strength? how do they measure it?
Sorry if this is impertinent but it is sort of like eating dessert before or after dinner. As long as you eat all of the meal the nourishment is the same or it seems so.Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
I heard it explained. And it made sense. Kinda! But I don't remember the details.
Not saying I buy the idea. Just passing on what I saw in print and heard in a lecture.
With you there.Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
Wet head....missed ya guy.....workin hard I reckon.
I'm getting really good at plumbing with all the books and my 1680 house.
Soldered a serious amount of feeds I ran from the 3rd floor to the basement tie ins I did with a shut off I put in, in the hot and cold baement start point hoping there wouldnt be any leaks from the lead in pipe in the basement and I could shut it off from there in case I'd have leals in the two floors above. Guess what ? No leaks. I so rock!!!! You know that feeling dont ya?
Even got my waste lines solid with the wet vent and and and....I'm learnin'..never too old I spose.
My building inspector told me I did better than every day plumbers.
Necessity and pocketbooks..ya know?
I used Mapp gas and the regular gas. My suggestion to DIY peeps is not to use MAPP gas. Start out with regular propane gas. Specially if you dont have tons to solder.
Sometimes slower is better in the beginning.
BE well Wet Head and hope to see you here more often again, we missed ya, least I did.
Be leak free from that ppppsssssssssssss sound
Namaste
Andy"As long as you have certain desires about how it ought to be you can't see how it is." http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
You didn't use flux to smooth your solder joints did you? :-)>
I ended up subbing out the plumbing rough-in on my house and the veteran plumber I hired used that trick. I have long green streaks running down every pipe now. Since my father will be flying out from Arizona to help me with the stack-out I know I'm going to have to clean all that extra flux up or I'm going to hear it from him.
It will probably never cause a problem but with a stained concrete finish floor slab on grade covering all those water pipes I'm not taking any chances on corrosion biting me in the rear down the road.Kevin Halliburton
"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard-
Kevin
I read somewhere here that using flux to clean joints makes the pipe eventually corode. Not sure if its true or not. Whattya think?"As long as you have certain desires about how it ought to be you can't see how it is." http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
El,
Gotta clean both parts. Flux, then place the flame in about 1/2" from the fitting line. Put your solder on the backside of the fitting 180 degrees from the flame at the fitting line. As soon as its hot enough it will draw the solder in. You remove the flame right away when soldering 1/2 or 3/4. I taught this method when teaching at a vocational school. Never had a kid that couldn't solder leak free and trust me they weren't all that smart. DanT
Dan
Are you saying the second the solder starts to flow pull the heat away?
I also read from a poster here he doesnt use sandpaper to clean the pipes. I use rolls of plumers sandpaper. You see anything wrong with that?
As a teacher of plumbing do you have any other tips?
Be a plumber
Namaste
andy
"Understanding yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth"
Alan Watts
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
Yes, usually on 1/2" or 3/4" as soon as the solder starts flowing I pull the flame away. You can leave it on for few seconds or so but usually no need as enough solder will already flow to make the joint. I use plumbers screen or drywall screen. (new drywall screen, not used) I use fitting brushes for fittings themselves. Pretty easy after the first 1000 or so, just like driving nails I guess. Hope it helps. DanT
I read somewhere here that using flux to clean joints makes the pipe eventually corode. Not sure if its true or not. Whattya think?
Yea, I seem to remember reading something about that too... :-)>
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=27394.15
Kevin Halliburton
"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard-
Are you heating the pipe not the fitting ? You have to heat the fitting,also is the joint clean and the flux not full of water and shop crud?
I'm guessing it was just an omission, but your post said you sanded the end of the pipe, and fluxed both the pip and inside the fitting....but
You did sand/clean the inside of the fittings too, right?
For about $7 invest in one of the multi tools that has 2 wire brushed (1/2" and one 3/4") that cleans out the fitting in no time flat. It also has 2 holes (again for 1/2' and 3/4") that you stick the pipe in and twist the tool around it to make it clean.
I just wanting to make sure you're cleaning both...
"For about $7 invest in one of the multi tools that has 2 wire brushed (1/2" and one 3/4") that cleans out the fitting in no time flat. It also has 2 holes (again for 1/2' and 3/4") that you stick the pipe in and twist the tool around it to make it clean."
I'm with stray on this one. I used emery cloth before then tried that multi tool one day and have never gone back to emery cloth. I think I've worn out 4 of those tools. I can't remember the last time I've had a leak either.
First Iraq, then France, then Hollywood!
I'd expect maybe you're over heating it. I could be full of it, but I think if it gets too hot, the flux boils off, and no flux=no flow for the solder. I have this problem most with brass valve fittings. They seem to take so long to heat, that by the time they're hot enough, the flux is gone.
If everything seems to be going well, you've obviously overlooked something.
I agree with Mr. Pita - make sure you're not overheating. The MAPP may be too hot. I'm also a novice in soldering, and I was having all kinds of problems with fittings. Once I became very careful in avoiding overheating, I haven't had a failure (true, this is only 5 more soldering jobs - still a novice). The pros like WHW have such a good feel for how hot the joint needs to be, they don't tend to have the problem. Good luck!
Make sure you don't have water in the pipe, or at least in the area you are soldering. This might be one of your problems. May be not
Try this link:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=27394.1
Kevin Halliburton
"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard-
I see you were refered to a post I started a while back. I'm no pro, but have entirely replumbed my entire house in copper (two baths, laundry room, kitchen etc.) Never once had a bad solder joint, just the occassional ugly one (too much flux/not wiping as I learned in the forum). The one thing I can say that I do that I think I can attribute this to is that I really clean the pipe and fittings extreeeemly well. Typically I use one of the ID /OD pipe cleaning wire brushes mentioned earlier, followed by green Scotchbrite (never sandpaper) after that. Obviously I flux both surfaces. Never overheated a joint (can't fathom how you can, as a few seconds after the solder starts to flow you take the heat away (right?). A thought just poped into my head, are you using a big enough torch? Just bought a new one myself. Tried Mapp gas in it. Compared to my old propane one with HD tip, it put out ~1/3 the btu's. Could barely heat a pipe hot enough for solder to melt.
Jon
Edited 3/27/2003 6:45:05 PM ET by WorkshopJon
Brand new pipe and fittings, 1/2", new installation so it's never been wet. I have not been cleaning the inside of the fittings because they're still shiny from the factory...could be part of the problem, except that not all of them solder poorly. I put the tip of the flame at the joint line of the fitting and the pipe, and I try to get two sides (top & bottom) hot. I also get the joint hot enough to melt the solder without touching the flame to the solder.
So, it looks like probably two errors: improper cleaning, and too hot.
Do it right, or do it twice.
You need to torch the center of the fitting. You want the heat to draw the solder into the fitting, heating the joint is improper. For example, on a tee joint, you heat the center and you should be able to solder all 3 joints at the same time by heating just one spot. Clean outside of each tube and inside of each fitting. Brush flux onto outside of each tube and inside of each fitting. NEVER put the flame directly at the joint, it will burn the flux away and the solder won't flow. That is most likely your problem
First Iraq, then France, then Hollywood!
Ok I'll try that. I do flux both parts, but only clean one, and I apparently heat the wrong place.Do it right, or do it twice.
I had problems with bronze fittings until I started working with a bigger, hotter flame. It seems like getting the fitting to the right temperture more quickly prevents the flux from burning off.
One other thing - don't put the flame at the joint line of the fitting and pipe. Heat the entire joint or heat from the middle of the fitting. The solder will flow toward the heat and if you are heating the joint line there's not enough heat throughout the fitting to draw the solder all the way into the fitting.
TIP - watch the color of the flame, when it turns green, the joint is the right temperature.
I asked my plumber about MAPP gas a couple of years ago. He said it could cause over-heating.
After your last post, however, I suspect not cleaning the inside of your fittings is the problem. Even thought they're shiny, there could be oil and stuff from the manufacturing process.
Al Mollitor Sharon, MA
The flame should be played on both pieces, sholder should melt w/o flame, apply solder opposite side from where you had the flame (it flows towards the heat), don't let flux boil so much that it evaporates completly (once its gone forget it, start over),wipe w/ damp rag to cool slowly so solder won't crack and to remove excess flux, damp rag can also isolate an existing joint from heat by wrapping it around it, and last but not least, if you can't get the water out of the pipe, (it must be dry) then stuff some Roman Meal Bread (my favorite,'cept for patty melts) into the pipe then sweat your joint. It will flush out w/ water under pressure.
Triggerski
MAPP gas has acetolene in it
"As long as you have certain desires about how it ought to be you can't see how it is."
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"I sand the end of the pipe with plumbing cloth (150 I think), apply flux to the pipe and the inside of the fitting, and use mapp gas."
Be sure to thoroughly clean the inside of the fitting in addition to the pipe itself. Never assume that either surface to be joined is clean. Even a fingerprint can cause the solder to miss an area. Also, apply heat to the fitting, not the pipe.
Good luck,
Steve
" I read somewhere here that using flux to clean joints makes the pipe eventually corode. Not sure if its true or not. Whattya think?"
Andy,
I was at a conference last week where 2 guys from the Copper Developement Association gave a talk. They addressed your question by saying that older style fluxes do cause corrosion. i.e. if you use too much and it builds up inside the pipe, it will corrode that pipe and cause a pinhole leak. They also said that if you don't wipe off the flux from outside of the pipe, it'll cause discoloration (the green corrosion we're familiar with) but that this surface corrosion would never be enough to cause the pipe to fail. It'd just look ugly. My sense it that it has something to do with exposure to dry/oxygenated air.
They did say many modern fluxes are "wash away" type fluxes where once you put the water line in service, the interior flux residue easily washes out and therefore not cause interior corrosion. I've never seen "Wash away" on any flux label I've looked at, but you can bet I'll look for that next time. They said both kinds are still readily available, but that there's no reason to use the old kind.
I've never seen "Wash away" on any flux label I've looked at When I bought my latest flux (about a week ago) at Lowes, there were 3-4 differnt kinds, and one of them noted that it was water soluble. It was in the fine print, not a big item on the package.
Do it right, or do it twice.
Edited 3/28/2003 8:56:02 PM ET by ELCID72
What I was told, and was probaly already mentioned here, 1/2 inch copper pipe=1/2 inch of solder,3/4=3/4, and don't forget to leave a valve open, Jim J
Holy flux, Batman! It works! I changed to propane, bought those inner and outer wire cleaners (slick!), use a flux brush, and heat only the fitting (but I still apply heat to opposite sides for a few seconds). What a difference. Nice clean joints, quickly.
Do it right, or do it twice.
Oh, so I guess using my finger to apply the flux isn't such a good idea? It is a little tough getting my pinkie inside the 1/2" fittings. probably time to buy a flux brush.Do it right, or do it twice.
Clean both the pipe and inside the fitting. Coat with fux and apply heat to the fitting. When the flame turns green apply the solder and let off the heat. Wipe the joint (makes a nice looking joint and you remove the excess flux).
You wipe the joint with a damp cloth? Does this quench the solder joint at all?
Just a question to everyone. Does wipping the fitting clean of excess solder make the joint any better or does it just make it look more professionally done?
In other words, does leaving the solder drips harm the joints in any way?
Be overkill
Namaste
andy
"Understanding yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth"
Alan Watts
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy,
Does no harm to leave it. Most plumbers regard it as a professional look to have wiped joints. That seems to have carried over to others looking at the plumbing trade. DanT
My Dad, the master plumber, wiped his solder joints primarily as insurance against his experience that excess flux was causing excess corrosion down the road. However, I talked to him day before yesterday and he said today's fluxes are no longer a problem. Learn something new every day.
The wipe is primarily used as a professional signature now days. According to Dad, it does help the plumbing inspection go a little more smoothly in some cases if it's apparent the plumber knew what he was doing. Dad feels that inspectors tend to be more comfortable when they see wiped joints. Other than that- no benifit.
Kevin Halliburton
"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard-
It will show up if you have a bad spot quicker. But unless you are good you should not wipe it as you can mess up the integrity of the joint
Wet head
I'm up to the last stage of the bathroom I've just created in my old house. The sink.
I have everything vnted really perfectly but....the sink is on the far end of the room and I cant tie the sink vent into anything. Its near impossible to go up through the wall as the studs are 2x4's on the flat and I can't get to that area in the attic...ugh. So....as much as I don't want to I was thinking of using what I call "a cheater" vent. I don't know what its actually called but I know you know what I mean.
Thing is...I'm using an S trap through the floor. The sink is a bowl a potter in Vermont threw for me that sits atop an antique cab I just bought. I ran the drain through the shelves yesterday and in the morning I'll run it through the floor into a closet below then into the basement and tie it into te cast iron drain with a rubber boot.
Can I use the cheater vent on the first floor in the wall with a wye elbow or do I need to do it in the cabinet with the sink above it. I'm using chrome piping in the cab and 1 1/2" pvc through the floor.
I hate to even ask ( hiding my face in my hands in shame) but do I need to vent it at all?
Be stupied
Namaste
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Vent above water level. Here in Mo. it's called a bladder vent.
Wet head is perfectly right. I personally emphasize cleaning more than he did when I teach soldering techniques, and I prefer to leave a half drop of solder hanging from the bottom of the joint. If the wet rag sizzles when you wipe the excesss flux off, reflux the junction and resolder and wait longer before wiping... of course, I have never had to resolder :p)
Samt
Andy, this is what I know about air admittance valves:
They are permitted for individual fixtures (though their use is minimized)
They must be installed a minimum of 4 inches above your drain (I believe that's 4 inches above the centerline of your trap, though I may be wrong)
They must be accessible and they must be ventilated (can't be in a wall)
Bottom line, the fixture should be vented to work properly, you can use the air admittance vlave, but it needs to be located in the cabinet and probably placed as high under the countertop as possible.
You might want to confer with your building inspector, I've heard some are predjudiced against these things.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Nick & Sam
I know around here those vents wouldnt pass code but I'm not being inspected on this bathroom.
The sink is a bowl that sits " on top" of the vanity like an old wash basin.
Its quite a delema as how to vent this thing being its almost impossible to go up through this particular wall which is why I considered the bladder vent...now I'm not sure even that will work.
With the studs being old 2x4's on the flat theres no way I could even go sideways and out the side wall...hmmm. Spose I'll try the bladder vent as high as possible inside the vanity and see what happens.....maybe try no vent for starters.
Thanks
a
Thanks
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Good post with a minor detail I would like to differ on. I too, thought it would be better to put the unit as high up in the cabinet as possible. My inspector jumped me for it and I contacted Studor vent about it. He was right.
When you do that you gain absolutely no benefit. BUT... you make service harder and you make it harder to verify correct installation (NO PIPE DOPE! ONLY TEFLON TAPE! ETC.).
Thanks for the info. All the AAVs I've encountered were up tight to the countertop. I never considered the work required to replace them, which would be a royal pain in that situation. And I suppose making the inspector's work a little easier isn't such a bad thing. :-)
Thanks again, and good luck in Alaska.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
thanks.
I'll do my best to answer your question. My answer will be based on correct installation techniques and are assuming that code issues do not exist. (As per your comments)
Yes, Andy, it must be vented. Shame on you for even asking! Wink, wink.
Here is how to handle it. Use an AAV (Air Adittance Valve) like Studor or Oatey. DO NOT use the little black "mickey mouse" vents like mobile homes use. They will fail in a few years and allow sewer gases into the room. AAVs are much more reliable. Expect to spend between 15 and 30 bucks.
The CL (critical level) of the AAV must be 4" above the weir of the trap. What does all that mean? For your application just make sure that the area the air goes into the AAV is 4" above thewater level in the trrap when it is setting still.
Here is the way I would do your project.
I would bring my drain pipe up into the cabinet space. At the right height I would put a Sanitary Tee on the vertical. Put the AAV on top ot the tee. Close is fine because you will get your 4" just in fittings alone. Remember it is not 4" to the AAV, but to the air opening in the AAV! Now bring your P-Trap from the sink to the side inlet of the tee and you are done!
An alternative method is to use a 90 on top of the drain pipe and then inbetween the 90 and the P-Trap arm you would put a San Tee on it's back with the AAV setting on top of the Tee outlet which is pointing straight up. Takes up more room but it is an accepted installation method.
Hope this helped!
Wet Head,
Thanks a buncha....and yeh, it helped.
One question...I'm assuming it can be more than 4" above the trap....right?
I'm using chrome piping in the cabinet and I also assume I can get chrome fittings or will I have to use rubber clamps to pvc fittings?
Spose when I go to my plumbing suppy house (not HD) they'll give me the scoop on the fittings I need.
By the way its illegal to do what I'm going to be doing here on L.I. but screw that...its not being inspected and I know its a decent way to work it. On L.I theyre major ball breakers. I've gutted more bathroms then I can tell you where it was done that way for one reason or another.
Thanks again
Be a plumber...wink wink...lol
Namaste
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
it can be 30 feet above the trap
or 60 or 90
Here is a question:
why not run several smaller vent pipes up the wall, all together their internal area equal to the code requirement?
in other words, if code requires a 2" vent for this sink, and your wall is only 1 1/2" space, run 3 or 4 1" vent pipes up the wall, and join them back together again in the attic.
The only advantage to this idea would be a cleaner look under the cabinet, but since that clean look sounded like a goal in this project it could justify the extra pieces of PVC.
It also would all be inside the wall, and never need maintainence.
Just wondering,
Norm
good question.
The fact that smaller vent sizes will get stopped up too easily is the main reason this will not work.
Second, it would take far more than 3 or 4 1" pipes to equesl the clear area.
We didn't even mention codes but they are not an issue here.
The vent performs two functions. It lets the stinky gasses out far from our noses. It lets air in to prevent the formation of a siphon which would suck the trap dry. Given the much lower mass and friction of air, one 1" vent pipe would be plenty for those two purposes, except for Wet's observation that it would be more likely to get crudded shut.
In this situation, there's no inspection issue and Andy plans to live there for quite a while, so if he provides an easy way to snake the thing, it might be interesting to experiment and see how often the little pipe needs to be cleaned out. He could always retrofit the air admittance valve later if this turns out to be a pain to keep working.
-- J.S.
By the way its illegal to do what I'm going to be doing here on L.I. but screw that...
Shame on you *G*
If you would have let your wife get TOH in there, they would have never done it that way lol...... :)
guess there's always next year right?
<<<If you would have let your wife get TOH in there, they would have never done it that way lol...... :)>>>
Neil 4,
Theres no way on this planet I'd have let TOH do a number here and guess what? If they saw what they hadda deal with they wouldnt want to...lol
Far as illegal goes...that doesnt mean its the wrong way...just means its not to code around these parts...yet perfectly legal in other areas...same issue, different responses. Political?
Go figure!
Be vented...pee-u and gas free?
Namaste
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I don't remember anybody saying this yet so I guess I will...
Remove any screens from faucets and flush the solder joint pipe for 15 minutes at full flow.
There, I'm done.
SamT
I do that without thinking. Never thought to mention it! LOL
A lot cheaper to do it right then go back and clean areators later!
Wet Head
Another question.
I smashed up the cast iron right down to the basement. I got up to the hub of the cast drain. I'd like to put a donut in there with a pvc fitting 3" to 1 1/2" but the hub is filled with lead and a wall of thin cast still left. I tried pounding in the donut and hub after scraping the walls but it only will go in about a third of the way which feels pretty snug but it doesnt really float my boat. Wish it'd go all the way in.
I tried heating it up to no avail. Don't wanna crack the hub as its right at the ground where it goes to the cesspool. Any ideas on how to clean that up or am I ok with the donut feeling snug the way it is about a third of the way in?
Be a nut
Namaste
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
can you take a hacksaw blade and cut the lead a couple of places?
Andy, if you have what it think, broken inner pipe stub left, leaded into the bell of the sewer pipe? I have been successfull drilling a number of holes around in the lead. Drills like butter and you can hog just about all of it out.
Just keep futzing with it until it's loose is what I've done when disintegration was the other option.
Cess pool? Haven't heard that inna while. Is that what you have?
Joe H
Joe, Wet Head,
Good ideas. Think I'll start with drilling in a cpl of dozen places then maybe use a hacksaw blade in those holder things and cut around the circle of the pipe if it wont chisel out. What a pain in the azz.
Yeh, the lead "is" like butter but it sure sticks to rusty pipe pretty good...ugh.
I probably should have left a few inches of pipe before the hub and just used a rubber boot but hindsight is 20/20. Just had it in my head that I wanted to use the donut and 3" to 1 1/2" PVC bushing.... I guess I thought that would be a better job for some reason.
Thanks again and be well,
a
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Joe....forgot to answer your other question....yeh, most everyone on LI here in NY has cesspools and the lucky few have sewers.
When I was looking to buy land out in Sebastipole California a few months ago I couldnt believe the hassle and expense with the systems you need there.
Cesspools are cake compared to that. A brand new one is about four grand and your done for 20 years unless it needs pumping which is no biggie or having the lines snaked out which is what I needed to do yesterday ($135 later). My fault....I let a cpl a chunks O plaster get into the pipe and that got caught on some roots along with toilet paper and you know what.
The cesspool guy snaked out most everything and reeled back a big chunk of roots. In the pipe right where I cut it off about 3' down was a big chunk O plaster. I tried sticking my arm down the pipe...yuk...but I think I was about two inches to short, so the cesspool dude had this surgeons tool as he called it. A four foot piece of wire with tiny claws on the end. HE made me do it...lol. Catch the claws on the object and pull the wire with one hand while holding the body of it with the other and it grabs the object. Cool tool!
a
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, the local surgeons buy those things at the auto parts story. They're handy for fishing in drains, and down stud cavities where your whatever fell. $3 or $4,
View ImageThese are $2.99 at Harborfreight.com.
They don't have the kind you're talking about, but Sears or just about anyplace has them.
Good luck, careful careful, when the piece in the ground breaks you'll be finding the bodies from 1680.
Joe H
Joe
Thanks to you and Wet Head.
I just got the lead and cast out of the hub. I cut the cast in two places with a hack saw as WHW suggested and drilled about fifty thousand holes in the lead as you suggested before it finally came out in two horse shoes. You guys rock!!
OK...back to business..5" donut this time and switching from chrome to PVC in the vanity being that there really aren't any chrome fittings to get my vent in under the vanity.
Thanks guys....beer and shots are on me any time yer in town!
a
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, Cess pools...............do you mean an open pool or a septic tank?
After 323 years you'd think they'd have the sewers in your 'hood? Must be the same crowd that're in charge of pot holes here in CA. Never gonna fix them, gotta spend the money on other stuff.
Joe H
Those pick-em-tools are often living on the $1ºº tool & trash table in the hardware store. View Image
Joe
Septic tank. Buried 20' deep with three concrete rings and a concrete cap.
Well looks like I'm almost done with the drains and vent....whewww. Just need to connect it in the basement now and glue all my fittings together.
The AAV valve was the crappy black one. Seems no one around here has the good one that Wet Head spoke about but they said they will be arriving in a few months and it will actually pass code. So, I just wont glue it on....I popped it on and will leave it unglued so I can replace it when the good ones come in.
Thanks again and back to the bellows
a
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Well, they probably don't carry them cause they ain't code there yet. But you can order one here. Why wait?
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/autovent.html
The 1st one is the cheap mobile home thingy, the second one is a Studor.
Mugsy
Thanks dude....I'm ordering the real deal tomorrow....by the way...you aint no realation to "Satch" are you?
Be The Bowery Boys
Namaste
Andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
He wasn't Satch when I knew him. He was Glimpy and we were the East Side Kids. Later I changed my name to Slip and he changed his to Satch and then we became The Bowery Boys. <G>
And then I believe it was The East Side Gang or Comdedy. And lets not forget Whitey.
PS....love your hat
Be well
Namaste
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Hey,
Finally picked up your nephews book at the airport on Sun. got ripped off b/c it was an airport but ohwell....
Going to start next week after finals, just wanted to let ya know cause I told you I would let you know what I thought and didnt want you thinking I read it and thought it sucked but didnt say anything :)
Be well read....
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professional build the Titanic.
Neil,
I picked it up a cpl a weeks ago and after the first page I decieded to wait till I go to Florida to hlp my Mom move from Tampa to Orlando. When I take the plane ride is when I think I'll try to read it again.
Seems kinda complicated for fun reading but let me know what "you" think.
Be easy reading...lol
Namaste
Dr. Suess
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
ah man, you telling me this is going to be a hard intellectual type read lol
So much for relaxing after schools out....
Haven't cracked the cover yet, all I know about it is: your nephew wrote it, and it's a mystery :).Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professional build the Titanic.
Neil
I'm gonna try again when I leave on the 17th of this month as I'm in the air to Florida (ugh)to help my Mom move.....$25 bucks for the boook.....shoulda split the cost with you....lo.
Hey we might like it.
I'll letcha know
Be uh....uhh
a
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
this is a great thread on soldering!! One thing not mentioned is to ream out the inside of the cut pipe if you use a pipe cutter. Without the reaming water can cause trubulance inside the pipe right before the fitting. That trubulance will eventually cause pin hole leaks. Check with the Copper Institute for that tidbit.
Peace,
MartinHeads I win, tails you lose.
We got hosed Andy we got hosed.....
You see my link, Amazon has it for 18 bucks, got to spend 25 to get free shipping though, I spent 32 in the airport, but after Amazon dicked me around when I tried to order it the first time earlier I'd rather overpay.
Still like tool crib though...
Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professional build the Titanic.
Andy,
CAG wrote, "Finally picked up your nephews book."
Just curiuos, what was the title and topic?
Jon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0375505296/qid=1052274838/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/102-5120925-9152106?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
The Dante Club by Matthew Pearl
I'll save Andy the typing :)
His nephew got the brains in the family, real smart cookie, Harvard and Yale graduate. Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professional build the Titanic.
Just remember to pick up that led you guys....and don't chew on too much.
I'll do my best to answer your question.
Thanks, you're all wetheadwarrior, this is the reason i like this forum so much. I can make it work, (or at least know that I can't) but here I get to learn exactly how and why.
Thanks again
SamT
Sorry, couldn't resist the "you're all" comment. must be lack of sleep. ST
Back to the original topic of the thread, soldering....
Does anybody have any tips or tricks for soldering out in bright sunlight where you can't see the torch flame?
-- J.S.
I never watch the flame anyways. Watch the copper as it turns color.
When the flux smokes it is hot enough to add solder.
PS on the white bread thing suggested as a way to keep water away from the joints being soldered in an old system. There is commercially available clear jelly glob I saw at an Ace hardware. Different sizes for different pipe. Plug them in and the water will eventually dissolve the glob. Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
<<<PS on the white bread thing suggested as a way to keep water away from the joints being soldered in an old system. There is commercially available clear jelly glob I saw at an Ace hardware. Different sizes for different pipe. Plug them in and the water will eventually dissolve the glob. >>>
I noticed those jelly balls in a plumbing book I was reading and called a big plumbing supplier I use and they said they stoped carrying them for some reason so I used the bread trick. worked like a charm.
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Dry cloth