I looking for info on soldering copper gutters. From what I can gather a soldering iron is the way to go. I found one online for $275 (ouch).
http://www.guttersupply.com/p-soldering-tool-kit-ESK.gstml
Any suggestions, techneques, etc would be helpfull.
Bob
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Replies
We use the Sieverts too..just a better model than that one. But for omne time use, go for it. Ya can always sell it after.
Basically, just make sure your work tight, and flux with Ruby fluid or plumbing flux. Tin the parts if ya need to, tin the iron for sure. And we use 50/50bar solder.
If I can do it well, anyone can.
Parolee # 40835
if you could explain to us , what tinning is and how to do it ?? would appreciate it . slainte'.." I'm working on it"
Tinning is the application of solder to the copper parts individually before joining them together.
Kinda like a primer coat.
Clean the copper, apply the flux, heat and then apply the solder.
thanks dan , had an inkling but wanted it "cemented"..." I'm working on it"
Yeah, "tinning" is a pretty generic term meaning to coat something with solder. For instance, you must generally "tin" a new soldering iron by polishing it up, fluxing it well, and heating and coating with solder. If small areas don't tin well the first time you need to file them down and repeat the process until the entire working tip of the iron is tinned. (Note: You need to do this even if the manufacturer claims the iron is "pre-tinned".)
The term is also used to refer to electronic components. The copper leads of standard resistors and capacitors, eg, are usually supplied pre-tinned. Some types of wire (intended for soldering into electronic circuits) is pre-tinned.
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i've had a older fella explain and show me , where the iron hasmore benfits than the mapp torch, tinning and also "lacing" built in gutter on the joints for more integrity. that was a great week , i learned shrinking , strecthing the idea of roll stock is alot more difficult to work with than sheet stock.where ruby flux is better than plumbers flux. marking the whole process, rudimentary ..granted but was very appreciative non the less. he was a older craftsman , and real gentlemen. it was a while ago , just had to reaquainted with the terminology. thanks for the refresher........" I'm working on it"
This has been done for eons with a big-#### heavy soldering copper and some sort of stove or torch. You can probably find the copper used somewhere for $20 or so.
Takes practice, though, and the right technique.
Are you using half round or Ogee K style gutters?
If doing the half round ones a large iron that is heated in a plumbers furnace will work just fine. If they are K style some smaller irons will be helpful unless you can do it all on the bench first then hang them.
i sometimes use a B tank and torch with a 3 tip if there is no danger of lighting something up.
Walter
Betterprices here at BigRock
http://www.bigrocksupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=998
Joe H
I still have Grandpa's iron stove, his irons, and his crimping tools.
If you are doing a one-shot, relatively small job, I've had decent luck with just using a soldering head on a propane torch. The tip is too small & the flame shoots out the sides and burns something when you least expect it, but it gets the job done if you are patient and careful.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Here's another cheaper version.
Anybody seen one of these?
http://www.abccatalog.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=9856700128
Joe H
I had one of those years ago. It's a piece of crap. It'll light your hands up in the gutter. The Sievert torch exhausts at about a 70d angle from your hands. This thing blows back at your hands. It gets hot enough down in the trough.http://grantlogan.net/
seeyou, What would suggest I buy?
Bob
I'd get the Seivert with the tips that have a threaded hole rather than the rod. I don't have a model # handy, but I'll see if I can find one latter. You'll need a pyramid tip for hanging gutter work. I pay about $350 for the complete setup (tip, solder rig, 4' hose, regulator). Here's the soldering rig catalog at ABC.http://www.abccatalog.com/store/advancedsearchexec.aspHere's what we use, except we mostly just use the 4' hose option and a 1 lb tank.http://www.abccatalog.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=1063965112this one might be ok for occasional use:http://www.abccatalog.com/store/viewitem.asp?idproduct=1063920123http://grantlogan.net/
I have one of these. Nice: http://www.nabocker.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=177
Looks nice, but... ouch- $ 395.
This for a home gutter job - a small at that.
Why not just pick up some old fashioned soldering coppers and heat them up with a MAPP gas torch? Should be found cheap at a good flea market locally- maybe even on eBay.
I picked up plenty for a few dollars apiece.
It's a lot more efficient to have the stove holding the heat close to the coppers. But for a one-shot job that may be OK. Instead of MAPP, I'd suggest a 40 pound propane tank with a hose adapter. This takes a whole lot of gas. With soldering coppers, you sacrifice efficency to gain safety from setting the house on fire.
The way I did it was to design the gutters so that I could do the soldering as bench work, and do it directly with a torch, like plumbing. But mine were only 12 ft long.
-- J.S.
I also have the Seivert, but can I ask some pros:What's a good way to solder, say flashing on a vertical surface? It takes me a long time to get the copper just right temp. and then solder rolls off. I eventually get it to stay, but it looks too sloppy.Also is the liquid flux better than the paste flux? It seems to me it would run off. I've been told the liquid is much better and have to try it.
To solder verticles, tack and tap. Tack the two pieces together and then tap them above and below with a hammer to get them to where they are tight together for a half inch or so. Reflux and tack again and tap as necessary. After the pieces are tacked together well, reflux and go back over them slowly, adding solder as you go. Drag your copper across the joint, pulling flux and solder through the joint until it's sweated. Then go back over the joint moving quicker as you add solder to "lace" the joint. Pre-tinning makes the whole operation easier and the joint stronger.http://grantlogan.net/
Seeyou:Thanks for the tips. I've been practicing; how do these pictures look? Too much solder or is is passable?Alan
Looks pretty good for a newbie. Yeah, the solder's a little heavy, but practice makes you better. It's kind of like riding a bicycle. You'll know it when you're doing it right and suddenly the control will come to you. Have fun.http://grantlogan.net/
Do what Seeyou says, plus patience, practice, and not too much heat. It can help to cool the finished part with a wet rag. It's irritating to have what you got to work get too hot and pop apart. Like playing golf or the violin, don't expect to get it perfect on the first try.
Think about your design and see if you can make folded flat seams instead of just a simple overlap. They're way far easier to solder.
-- J.S.
Edited 5/11/2007 1:32 pm ET by JohnSprungX
I had one of those also, but had trouble with it. Also had one of these: http://www.nabocker.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=78
Parts and repairs were a problem. If it's for occasional use, they might be fine, but they didn't hold up to daily use.I send the Seiverts back to the factory when they quit working right and they rebuild them to new condition for $75.http://grantlogan.net/
Even though I don't use mine everyday, I kinda figured that if there were problems with that self contained portable model, repairs might be difficult. That one is probably nice for "quick and easy" jobs or even light benchwork.
I've used the one I linked previously a couple of times, and it sure beats the irons and torch routine. It was a nice Christmas gift.
Yeah, it's a nice tool. My point was: from my experience, that brand has not been real reliable. I've had two different models and both of them kakked pretty quickly. Hope your mileage is better.http://grantlogan.net/
Installing Copper gutters
For those installing copper gutters, we have an instructional video with some great tips. Here is the link:
How to install copper gutters.