Hi, guys. I’ve been assembling a RFH boiler system over the last week. I had a fan going while soldering all the copper pipe/fittings, but i developed an extreme headache that lasted several days unlike anything i’ve ever experienced before, which is only dissipating the last couple days of being away from the job, gardening outdoors.
I haven’t found much on the web to indicate such a reaction is expected, but i thought i’d check here to see if it’s happened to anyone else, and also check to see if anyone knows what filter i might use to cancel these lead/tin/flux/? fumes out. I’ve also done quite a bit of soldering before without incident, but never in such close quarters as the utility room i’m working in.
My forehead also became kind of scaly and tingly, like sunburn. I’ve heard of getting sunburn from arc welding, but not from a propane torch. Has this ever happened to anyone else?
I’m going to a welding supply place next time i’m in the big city to see what filters they might have, but i thought i’d cast this out there first to see if anyone has already invented this wheel. Thanks for help.
Replies
<a RFH boiler>
A Royal Freakin' Headache boiler?
Sorry - I'm no help.
Hope you get some good info
Forrest - adding insult to injury
I get reactions to the flux and solder but I am hoping you weren't using Zinc Chloride for flux or 50/50 lead /tin for solder.
The flux fumes can cause exactly what you describe. Give a few days and you should be fine. I solder outside in the wind, and it still gets to me for a spell afterwards.
" I press my lips against her name"
Yeah - zinc poisoning is wicked on the head
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I've seen that Grant uses mostly paste flux in his shop, but in tne field we use the Ruby Juice, wicked stuff." I press my lips against her name"
When i googled "zinc poisoning" i got a lot more relevant info that when i googled "solder poisoning", so thanks for that term.It seems skin irritation is also a zinc poisoning effect, as well as chills and nausea, which i had to a lesser extent and had just assumed was a side effect of wondering when i would set the house on fire. <G>Edit: Here's a good site about this: http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/zincsalt.htm
Edited 3/18/2007 7:20 pm ET by splintergroupie
I was using a tub of paste flux and some of the solder was 50/50, since it's a RFH only and i had this here old solder to use up.
From the skin involvement I wonder if it's an allergy? You can develop them from repeated exposure to an irritant. Good luck, hope you feel better s.g.
http://www.labsafety.com/store/Safety_Supplies/Respirators/Disposable_Respirators/29634/At least get some of these or a mask with the right cartridge filters. Local welding suppliers or safety supply companies should be able to advise on the one to get. And while your at it go to your doctor and get tested before the lead reduces your IQ to that of a politician's.
I don't think the Moldex style mask will do the trick - those are for particulates which i use all the time for woodworking, but i don't think they'd handle the vapors.There's a "Norco" welding supply store not too far away that has advised me before on chem filters for wood finishes, so i bet this is old stuff to them and they can fix me up with the appropriate filters for my respirator.
I should have gone one page further to go directly to the disposable welding masks which are designed to remove the metallic vapors. They were on item 9 of the page I linked to. The ones with the face seal and exhale valves are the most comfortable to wear and if you seal them up when done they can be used for days before they are spent making the cost more acceptable. Since you already have a respirator then a set of cartridge filters would be the way to go.http://www.labsafety.com/store/Safety_Supplies/Respirators/Disposable_Respirators/29634/As for the sunburn effect you're having from the long times in front of the torch you might buy a face shield for oxy-acetylene work when you go for the filters. They are tinted to protect the skin and eyes while gas welding. If you have the right brand of face shield that you use for woodworking already then you only need the shield and not the head piece too. http://www.labsafety.com/store/Safety_Supplies/Face_Shields/Welding_Helmets/53115/Edited 3/19/2007 4:25 am by QCInspector
Edited 3/19/2007 4:26 am by QCInspector
I'm on my way into town now to get the filters i need from a welding supply place; they said they have what i need, in stock, so that's good news. I tend to think the skin irritation isn't from the bright light so much as the chemical irritation, so i'll grease my exposed skin. Oddly, my hands weren't affected, only my forehead and eyelids. I've also got an appnt. to get blood drawn today. I'll report back how it goes when i get the results. Hopefully, our thread might serve to caution others attempting a similar installation.Thanks for your efforts in finding those masks. I guess i read it wrong, and they do remove the fumes.
Hopefully, i've just one more day of soldering to face, so i'll smear bear grease on my head before i go in. ;^)This is why i like PEX........
Had this problem when hooking up to old copper pipe. Lots of venting needed maybe spring for a fully vented mask feed from out doors.
http://clmcenterprises.com/hobbyair.htm
If i intended to make this my living i'd invest $$$ in that positive air-flow, but i'm SUPPOSED to be unemployed (with dignity).Hmmm, a thought...i'll check to see if they can be rented...
I get that when I weld galvinise metal. Drink milk, drink alot of milk. not the soy stuff but vitiamn D whole milk.
Whole milk?? OK, i'll dump my veganism and see if whole milk won't help. I hope you'll have another cure for breaking out in fat, though.
Welding gavaised metal is where I learned about it. Wicked headaches.Splintie - I think long term overdose can cause some sort of change evident in your fingernails. Forget what.
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Paul, how long did your headaches last after you quit the activity? Mine started on Tuesday, the first day i started un-soldering the badly-installed old system. I kept at it all of Wednesday and Thursday. I was reeling by Thursday night and haven't gone back since, but i still have a bit of headache even now.As for long-term exposure, i'm going to get a blood test for heavy metals and see where i stand, but i won't be doing this again, once i finish this job.
It's been a LONG time since then. Must've been around '81 or so...But I think it was for a good week after I stopped it that the headaches persisted.I think the thing about the milk is something like DIY chelatioon therapy where the calciul ions in the milk bond to the zinc free range hens scratching up the inside of your skull. But I didn't know that then. MOF, I didn't know what was causing the headache specifficly untill a month or two later when something I read clicked. I had spent a week bending down over the welding rods with fumes coming right up into my face shield.
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A week?!?! Looks like i have a few days to go, in that case. At least i had Ian's stash of hydrocodone to deal with the pain. I have migraines i know how to treat, but this was so out-there...anything less than narcotics didn't even affect it.In my 'zinc poisoning' reading, i found a lot of veterinary articles. It seems pets, esp dogs, are quite prone to it from swallowing pennies, which are copper-covered zinc wafers.
Don't un-solder, just clean and cut. Keep a fan or vacuum running as you do this to catch the fumes.
I couldn't avoid un-soldering in order to put vents on the manifolds and to separate the domestic from the RFH, which had been combined in one, big, open system. Sweating an end cap off a 1" manifold while not losing the little nipples is a tricky bit of work, i found out.
when I weld galvinise metal
Used to happen to me too before learning to grind the galv. off before welding<G>
Much poorer strength weld also if the galv. not ground off first.
It's been decades since that was learned, but recall zinc headaches lasted only till the next morning.
Now for some GOOD NEWS!! Actually dark beer is better than milk even.
No joke, beer good for radiation poisoning also, when anyone would get a few millirems over allowable on dosometer, security took us into a supervised room to drink a six pack. Preferred St. Pauli Girl Dark or Henry's dark.
"Hey, honey?"
"I think I might have a touch of Radiation poisoning. I'm just gonna run out and pick up some antidote."
BwhahahahaSamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
i have never heard of beer of any kind acting like a chelating agent. milk is supposed to chelate the zinc, tums also works, as will any other calcium source that can be absorbed into the body.
if you are going to be exposed to zinc fumes you need a HEPA filter equipped respirator as a minimum, positive pressure full face is better as zinc fumes can be absorbed through the eyes.
also curious to know more about the relationship of beer and radiation. i currently work in the nuclear field and have to ask when was it that you got to drink beer at a nuke facility, post 9-11 any beer or alcohol on property will get you removed instantly, and not be allowed back for 5 years.
i heard a rumor that high dose rates would cause, how can i say, sexual urges in males, dang moderators, it makes you horny.
i have a theory about this in that i suspect high dose rates damage sperm, and the body can somehow sense when sperm is damaged and tries to make room for new undamaged sperm to grow by an urge to eliminate bad sperm.
i hope this doesn't land me in jail, this is a serious discussion of conditions involving craft work in nuclear facilities.
i just had to say it, mental picture of drunk and horny overdosed on millirems construction type being released on society by nuclear security. hide the women and children.
also being on the east coast, i am enjoying a yuengling porter as i post, the oldest brewery in america!
I can say from personal experience that using a jackhammer can make you horny too! My theory is that it is the vibrations in the netherparts where the machine rests...I have also had experiences when beer hass seemingly made me horny too. I have no operating theory as to why that might be - and my experiences have not been objectively observed and duly recorded, but there is a song about girls and closing timethat attests to the theory that this is not an uncommon phenomenon.Now to segue back to topic we have to consider that zinc is intimately involved in the health of ones sexual organs and recommend that the OP follow up with further research on this concern. If her boiler is radioactive and the headache makes her angry enough to take a jackhammer to it and then relax with some beer, the nearby male population could be in danger...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
update on dark beer and millirads, the beer is used as a "chelating" agent for uptakes (ingesting of radiation detectable by monitors). apparently the beer speeds up the process by which the uptakes are passed and thereby lowers exposures.
seems like coffee would do the same thing, but i like beer and any excuse to have another one is a good reason!
I noticed an odd thing lately about alcohol. I'd stopped drinking last year almost entirely bec the stuff gave me little headaches. On completion and successful firing of the boiler, the friend for whom i installed it made me dinner and we shared a celebratory bottle of wine...and i had no side effects. Looks like if i want to have a glass of beer or wine this summer, i need to go solder something first...or get bit by another hobo spider. =(I figured i was in the clear on heavy metals when i didn't hear back on my blood tests bec the clinic said they would call if there was a problem. The resurfacing of this thread with your post made me call the clinic to check anyway, but there are NO lab results in my file at all....grrrrr! I'm going to politely suggest a courtesy call either way would be A Good Thing. Anyway, thanks for the jog.
you are quite welcome, and as far as the drinking goes, to be honest i am an incredible lightweight. i love beer, and usually drink one a day, and sometimes even two but it has been a long time since it has gone over that amount.
i guess the trick to carrying on is not getting carried away.
Did not see your March post till now.
My radiation work was mostly in the 70's and 80's.
The beer was administered (so I heard tell) in a separate security facility, under 'guard' and under observation. Never did hear that you were allowed to call out for a stripper or anything though <G>
thats alright, i found out that it helps to pass uptakes, ingesting hot particles. it was good information after all.
Brownbagg's right. Milk is good for zinc poisoning. Nasty stuff. I used to be around a lot of welding and torch cutting of galvanized metal.
I don't know about the whole milk vs. reduced fat thing, but he's probably right about that, too.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Alrighty, i'm putting pants on and heading to the grocery store to get milk! This means i'll have to give a bigger donation to PETA this year.Hmmm....wondering if ice cream counts...
Splintie - I grew up on a dairy farm. Cows LIKE to be milked.They are waiting at the door, in line so they can get a nice warm sponge bath and a massage, & relieve the pressure.Cows think it is good karma for you to drink their milk, eat their yoghurt, and cheese, and butter, and all the good things they make for us. It is particularly good karma if you drink milk to protect yourself from a toxic environment.
Kate, i grew up punching cows and they seemed to enjoy their long summers in mountain meadows, too, but the part about branding, castration, ear-tagging, shipping to feed lots, the killing floors...not so much.In dairy farming, there are veal calves and the end that used-up milk cows come to that weighs on my conscience as i drink this greasy fluid i'm no longer accustomed to, not to mention the self-interest of knowing that a higher milk and meat intake is directly correlated to a myriad of diseases and cancers. I have these great breasts and (i'm assuming) a fairly lovely colon, so i'd hate to see anything bad happen to them. Nevertheless, i went shopping and i've managed a quart of milk so far tonight. I'm thinking of it as medicine, with side effects.
I'm obviously not going to make any indentations on your way of thinking - so I will just wish you well, & hope that you avoid any evil after-effects from either your unsoldering adventure or its treatment!
& be careful...
Thanks for well wishes, Kate, even if we end up on opposite sides of the Dairy Divide. I found out there's a National Poison Control hotline: 1-800-222-1222. You can call them about non-emergency situations, too. The fellow was knowledgeable, says the set of symptoms is called "Metal Fume Fever" or MFF. Why it's called 'fever' when it gives chills is a mystery, but he said not to be that concerned about the zinc bec fluids flush it out, that the lead is the more worrisome one bec it accumulates. I had the blood test for that, then the doc scoped my nasals, pronounced them "pale and pulpy", then gave me steroids (Nasonex). I asked him if i would be liable to win any Cyrano de Bergerac contests post-treatment, but Patch Adams he was not.And i got welding filters and a new mask. I'll find out how well they work tomorrow.