Solid-Timber Mantle Scribed to Stone
My client had a big, fieldstone fireplace wall, on which he had planned to mount his own, hand-hewn mantle. About 15 years ago, a decade-and-a-half after he built the house, and when he was in his 70s, reality set in, and he handed the job over to me.
First, we had an approx. 8” x 14” beam sawn from a tree felled on his property. Then I used the monster Makita hand-held 6 3/4” x 20” power plane to clean it up to S4S.
With finished stock to measure from, I made a light, soft, pine pattern to do all of my scribing and test-fitting with. There were two randomly-angled re-rods already set to receive a mantle, so I started there: I cut two bulkhead pieces at finished mantle thickness minus 1 1/2” to fit inside my 1×12 pine mock-up. I set them level with each other, and level front-to-back, then added 1x cleats above and below each re-rod to keep them that way.
I built my pine box to the exact size of my finished oak stock, with the end-pieces roughly mitered to the top and bottom. The front and back I left open. Now came the scribing, which was a breeze: my mock-up was easy to lift and carry, and the bulkheads returned it to the same place every time for test-fitting.
My Bosch jigsaw dates back to when cave men were babies, so it doesn’t tip to put on a back-cut. But I didn’t care, I had a better plan. After my cuts were made, and after I’d done any rasping needed to take the cut down to the line, I flipped each piece over and ran over it with a 45º chamfer bit, leaving about 1/8”-3/16” of flat for durability of the edge.
That gave me a back-cut which was not a random angle, and which I could exactly duplicate on the mantle itself. I put the pattern back together, tweaked the fit, found out where it needed extra back-cutting, took care of that, and flagged those spots on the pattern.
When I liked the fit, it was time to go back to the shop and start cutting oak. I took the pattern apart, laid each piece on its corresponding mantle surface, and went over it with a top-bearing bit to exactly transfer the scribe.
Then a succession of different bit/bearing/rub-collar combos to widen and deepen the cut. My longest bit got me down almost 3”, which was a good start.
A couple of other bits helped me back-cut: one, a long-spindled arbor stacked with bearings and a slot-cutter gave me a 1/2”-deep back-cut down to 2” from the surface, and a straight bit mounted in a tilt-base trimmer exactly duplicated my 45º back-cut, with the base on top of the beam, and the motor leaning out away from it.
When I got to the flags that told me I needed a steeper back-cut at this location, I curled my fingers under the edge of the base to tilt the bit past 45º. These cuts with the tilt-base were freehand cuts, but a trimmer doesn’t have a lot of power, so it would have taken a lot to do damage.
Then it was time to hog out waste. My chain saw had just died, so I cut away as much as I could with a circ. saw, then switched to a chainsaw cutter in an unguarded Bosch mini-grinder with no guard. Pretty scary tool — I was gripping it so hard I’d lose the feeling in my fingers, and have to stop.
The bulkheads, with their 1x cleats turned out to be the perfect way to transfer the odd angles to a drilling jig: I cut a tight-fitting notch out of a 2’ square of ply so that it would just slip over the beam from the back, with no wiggle. I extended the lines of the 1x cleats onto this ply with cleats on the jig — one re-rod’s angle on one side of the ply, the 2nd on the other side of the ply.
Clamping this jig at the same locations on the actual beam, I ran a drill between the cleats and tight to the ply, and had my mounting holes.
I put a large chamfer on all of the finished edges, went back and deepened the chamfer to various depths in a few places with my biggest 45º bit (1 3/8” of carbide edge), then smoothed all of that out with drawknife and spokeshave to give it the look of a hand-worked beam.
Then it was time to install. I protected the floor with a couple of sheets of ply over drop cloths, and set up a scaffold frame with wheels on that. A 2’-deep raised hearth kept me out a bit, so I used U-bolts to attach a couple of 10’ 2×12 “arms” to the frame’s uprights — cinched up tight at the far end, a bit loose by the hearth. Bar clamps reaching up to planks on the next level up gave me my height control, and I tripled them up to avoid an accident.
We were ready.
Two big guys helped me bring the mantle in. We got it up onto the arms, rolled it close, shifted it side to side a bit, tweaked the height just so with the bar clamps, and pushed it home.
It fit within 1/4” at the largest gap. It looked perfect, so we packed up and went home.
As with a lot of the work that us BT guys and gals do, the hard work goes unnoticed — the finished product just looks right. And that is as it should be. Nine out of ten people who’ve looked at that mantle admire it, but don’t get it. Then there’s that one person in ten whose jaw drops, and my customer is tickled pink.
When I added up my hours, I kicked myself for not bidding the job, but I kept my mouth shut. My customer got it, though, and rejected my T&M bill, paying me more like what the mantle was worth. I don’t remember the actual hours I put in, but IIRC, I received around 75 hours-worth for that job.
AitchKay
Edited 11/17/2009 9:05 pm ET by AitchKay
Replies
Very cool, your spot on about the work that goes unnoticed. Tons of planing and creative thinking on your part, and people just see a hunk of wood on the wall.
I've thought that many times, if only someone would listen to how much goes into what we do but then they still don't get it. Sometimes I wish they had tried it before then they could appreciate a little.
AK,
A favor of you. I opened your post in a new window-max'd it and still had to scroll back and forth. I enjoyed the post, but got a little dizzy getting there.
thanks.
Oh that's right-big game this wknd-trying to confuse us Buckeyes, eh?
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Were the side-by-side pics going off the edge of your screen?If so, I just dropped them down. I've got a 20" screen, that might have been the problem.AitchKay
In it's own window, no problem now. Full screen on the regular BT screen-still need to scroll-the type stayed wide.
Thanks, way easier to follow now that I can see it all on one frame w/o scrolling.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"still need to scroll-the type stayed wide."I saw that. Any suggestions out there as to how to suck it in?AitchKay
I don't know. Perhaps it stays wide because it was set that way when you originally placed the pics sidebyside. Moving the pics doesn't automatically change the type........
I guess.
That's fine tho-open in new window-read and see the pics w/o scrolling-no problemo.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"best way to suck it in?"You either have to resize (pixel resize, not kb or mb resize) the photo before loading, or what I do is instead of just copy and pasting a photo, I use HTML. If you do use HTML, you need to check the "Check here if HTML tags are in the message (not including signature)" box right below the "POST" button. use preview prior to posting to get a feel for how your HTML will display.To add HTML to a post, you can use a a paragraph break <P> or a double line break <BR><BR> between paragraphs. I use the double line break.To post a photo, use <IMG SRC="" width=> Between the "" insert the URL for the photo you are loading. It can be the one assigned by taunton when you upload it on their server or on assigned by a third-party hosting site like photobucket or shutterfly. The width= is where you designate the width of the photo in pixels. I'll usually use a number between 500-600, but you can experiment.So the photo HTML would look something like this:<IMG SRC="www.aitchkayphotourl.com" width=500> Now the photo will display at 500 pixels wide. MY screen resolution is set at 1280 x 800, so a 500 pixel wide image would take up 500pixels divided by 1280 pixels, or about 40% the width of my screen.For someone running the old 800 by 600 resolution, it'd take up 5/8ths of their screen. That's without multiple windows or frames.
Yeah, I spent the last week figuring that stuff out, and I think I've got it.The thing that screwed it up for calvin was that I posted some pics side-by-side, because there was plenty of room on my screen for it. There wasn't room on his, though, so I added a <br><br>."best way to suck it in?" referred to the text, which evidently stayed wide even after I edited the pics to be in column.AitchKay
Gotcha.Without getting in to it too deeply, on breaktime the photos will drive the width and the text will follow the photo.Oh, and nice work! That's one helluva scribe.
You know the easy way to do that Cal is just click and drag the menu a little narrower.
Nice work Aitch BTW
On a hill by the harbour
Yessir, I've done that b/4 to see the complete image/type. But this time and with a few others-just doesn't do it (until he switched from side by side pics.
I wonder if it's the size I have my type set at (and it is wondering). I don't know if that option is here at BT, on my computer or a screen setting.
I do know that what I see is not what everyone else sees.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
"I do know that what I see is not what everyone else sees."That's true for me a lot of the time. I've wondered if it's because I use a Mac.AitchKay
It very well could be. No wizard here-couldn't troubleshoot a computer problem if my life depended on it.
Hey, going to the dump........got anything to throw on?A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Showed up fine on my Mac. Where you from? I don't see any info on your profile.Nice pics and explanation. I just saw two big hunks of Maple about 2 feet at the base and 8-10 feet long and straight. Might have to get the chain saw and see if I can take them away.
I'm in Ann Arbor, Mich.The job in question was on a high bank looking out over the Huron River, just downstream from my favorite rapids at the Delhi Mills, where you'll often find me playing in my solo canoe during the Spring flood.People drive up all the way from calvin country to paddle in those rapids, including at least one guy who teaches kayaking classes there.*******You know that your hooked when:"I just saw two big hunks of Maple about 2 feet at the base and 8-10 feet long and straight. Might have to get the chain saw and see if I can take them away."Go for it, Shoemaker!AitchKay
Hi,
We have the exact same fireplace in our house (built in the 70s) and want to hang a similar rustic (barn) mantel. We live in Northville, Michigan. Scribing is way beyond my skill set. Is this something you would be interested in contracting again?
CQ
Chip
The guy that started this thread and did the work doesn't hang around here anymore. But, he lives (lived) up by AnnArbor. I may have his email address or some other contact info. I can hunt for it if you like.
Lemme know.
This is the sort of thing that could be done now by using a laser to map the surface and a NC router to cut the beam.
"I do know that what I see is not what everyone else sees."
I hope for the sake of world sanity they don't see what I see either.
Back to the topic. Aitch I did a mantel for an old retired Italian mason once for a fireplace that he built from beach stone(round) and I built it with extra depth so I could scribe around the stone. when I got there for the install he was all happy with the work and we got to talking about the scribe.......... A few glasses of his excellent red later we decided to put it in straight IE no scribe. Came back the next day and installed and it looked great.
My point here is that all design situ's are different. In your case you are showcasing a beautifull peice of wood and the craftmanship to pull off that scribe. In ours it worked differently. By giving seperation between the stone and woodwork we actually presented both peices. Same sort of situation as the light box mantel in the other current thread. I should add that the woodwork was multi multi layers of heavy moulding in antiqued pine that was intended to compliment the somewhat heavy and rustic stonework. Sorry for being windy but I am having a musing sort of day.
On a hill by the harbour
Thanks for giving me the heads up on this. There is definately a lot of good technique involved there. and I will remember that never know when I might need to use it.
Nice Job!
Sorry that that post has wondered off into picture sizing land.Excellent work. That's like the world record scribe job.
Amen to that.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
PROUD MEMBER OF THE " I ROCKED WITH REZ" CLUB
"Sorry that that post has wondered off into picture sizing land."Karma, Shane, karma.I mentioned my difficulty posting pics in jr40's Mantel thread, and we were off to the races with about 20 pic-posting-posts.I slid over to the Photo Gallery to get as much info as possible over there instead, but we still hijacked jr's thread for quite a while.His thread came back around eventually, though.**********"That's like the world record scribe job."Thanks -- Had my hopes up -- a couple of 9.4s, a 9.5...... and then an 8.8 from the Russian judge, and I had to make the long walk home alone.AitchKay
Son of a beech that's some nice work!
Rod
Nicely done.
Glad you can post pics now.
Thanx for sharing.
Chuck S
Nice scribe work.
I think this scribe work is a candidate for the "Best of Breaktime blog" !
Very nice work. Re: your comment about the work you put out for this, I'll offer another point of view. The work is very nice, and often you are very right that people don't realize what goes into something. That being said and notwithstanding your particular application for your project (because I'm in no position to know such details), I ask why go through such girations and great pains to do such meticulous work for something you could have allowed to 'float' as was discussed in another post and as one poster actually did? Was there really a burning need to have the mantel literally hug the contour of the fireplace? Based on your pictures of what was put on the mantel afterwards, I'd have to say that functionally and aesthetically, your client gained very little in doing so.
One thing I didn't get out of your post ... how you anchored/attached the mantel. You begin to mention drilling some holes, but I wasn't sure what was on the fireplace.
Please don't take offense at my comment. I think your work was very nice. There is a time and place for just about everything and I've no idea if this was the time and place for this level of work or not. The comment isn't directed at you; just a comment in general about how simplifying may often be overlooked.
“why go through such girations and great pains”Well... It was what my client wanted, far from being “great pains”, it was fun, and,I got paid for doing it. What's not to like?“something you could have allowed to 'float'”True, I could have, but that would have had a completely different look, and wouldn't have fit in with the house (or the homeowner’s wants) as well. Also, I’m not sure that people would find a floating, 400#, solid oak beam restful to look at -- I could hang my anvil collection from the ceiling, but how many people are going to feel like sitting on the couch under it?That floating mantle was great, just a different beast. The “why” is kind of like asking someone why they live in a high-tech glass-and-steel house instead of an old Victorian, or why they chose that old Victorian over an Arts-and-Crafts house -- De gustibus non est disputandum!“One thing I didn't get out of your post ... how you anchored/attached the mantel.”We slipped it onto the re-rods and walked away. In the absence of something like my homemade forklift, I’m not sure how many people it would take to get it off -- I’d bet with six guys it wouldn’t be too hard.AitchKay
This wonderful thread reminded me of a stone masonn I used to know, he's since passed away, but his work is all over some fine homes in western NC Mtns.
"Choppy" or Chiapia was an older Italian pro mason. His fame was "hiding" in plain sight , art , in his stone work. For example, you'd walk into a home and see some A+ stone work, but something else was there..often you couldn't quite figure out what it was, a feeling of something.
Well sit down have a beer or a ( dare I say) a puff and just casually look again at the stone work, maybe squint your eyes, or use just peripheral vison glance askew.
And then it hits you like a train...A Freakin Indian head, just like the nickle. carefully laid stones , all making a perfect Indian head. Or a Bear, or a soaring eagle...man it was awesome.
I've had the pleasure of doing very similar mantle work as yours, on such beauties, and yep, sometimes there is WAY more than meets the eye at first blush. Never wanted a mantle to "get in the way" of his work, or detract from it in any way, often just simple slabs, such as yours, but painstakingly installed.
Many HO's wouldn't even know what was lurking in thier stone work ( he never told anyone), be it a fireplace or just a wall, till many months after he was gone. I'm sure there are some of his treats as yet unseen as well.
I've tried to incorporate some of his panache, but it's hard to do without the right touch and vision.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
PROUD MEMBER OF THE " I ROCKED WITH REZ" CLUB
I Think they call that alchemy........ Would love to see that !
Yeah, alchemy.
I wish I had some pics, but it was pre digital for me.
I also know one of the best wood carvers for scenic still lifes on FP mantles, I gotta dig and see if Gary has a web presence. A VN vet that took up carving, and incredible 3D work in mahog.
Gimme a few and I'll see if I can find a link and post it in the foto thread if I can .Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
PROUD MEMBER OF THE " I ROCKED WITH REZ" CLUB
Cool... i aint going nowhere
Right ... your client's request. Absolutely. I was being a bit rhetorical w/ my question and yes, I appreciate people doing different things just 'cause. Whatever floats your boat.
What are 're rods'? Did you install them as part of this effort? What are they and how do they anchor/what do they anchor to? I get just about everything except exactly what is you are 'hanging' this on and how that is attached to the wall to hold this weight. It does't look too heavy, really to me.
Re-rods are those bumpy steel dowels used to reinforce concrete -- sometimes 10-ft-long, right in the middle of a slab, sometimes short ones to dowel an addition’s foundation to the existing house -- anyway, THOSE rods.In this case the mason, knowing that a mantle would be added, stuck them in the mortar as he was setting the stones. SOP is to angle them upwards slightly, which is what he did. So that angle, along with the high-friction, bumpy surface of the reinforcing rods, combine to keep the mantle from slipping off. No additional fasteners.AitchKay
In the industry, we call that rebar- concrete steel reinforcing. I'd be a bit leary about relying on the bond of masonry mortar between rocks to support much weight. I'd think you would weld the rebar to a plate and bolt it to the framing. I must be missing a detail about how much bite your rebar has in the masonry.
“I must be missing a detail about how much bite your rebar has in the masonry.“I couldn’t say how deep the 3/4” re-rods/rebars are embedded -- all of that happened back in the 70s, a decade before I first started working in that house. I’ve not heard of any problems since I installed the mantle in ’95, so, I guess it’s a case of No Harm, No Foul.AitchKay
Wonderful work.
I found a few more old prints.
Here's a good shot at the early roughing-out stage. After routing as deep as I could on the four scribed faces, I have just just cut down to that max depth line with a skilsaw. It looks like the cutoffs are leaning against the far wall:
View Image
Here are a couple that are better-quality than those in my OP:
View Image
View Image
And a couple more close-ups:
View Image
View Image
AitchKay
PS
The CIA has just contacted me. Apparently, after studying these pics closely, a couple of their analysts are zeroing in on the location of OBL’s cave. As a precaution, I've told my client not to stand too close to the fireplace.
Nice work. As for all the haters wondering about scribing...hey, just because you can't do it doesn't mean it's wrong. ;-)What do you think about just hogging out the back and leaving an inch of meat around the edges for the scribe? Your system obviously works but it looks like...a lot of work.Thanks for sharing, though.
Nice work, yes, but I'd have handled it a different way: You get about a thousand termites, glue their feet to the wall. Then, using the re bar pegs to hold the log in place, bring the wood in juuuuust close enough for them to start chewin'. Go do somethin else for a while, but come back every few hours to advance the piece and remind the termites that they're glued to the wall -they eat more when they're depressed. When every termite is eating at once, you're done. At least, that's how I've always done it... Very nice work though!
Shoemaker1 was thinking along the same lines as you in the first mantle thread when he suggested, “CNC termites?”You guys are way off, though -- as I told him, “Beaver on a leash.”I’ve had WAY too many problems with termites to recommend them to ANYONE. Talk about herding cats!!Then again, I never did try gluin’ the suckers down...AitchKay
So would that beaver on a leash be considered a corded model?
Beaver with a collar Cordless?
At least they are self sharpening!
You have to remember this was 15 years ago. They still hadn't gotten all of the bugs out of the invisible fence system.I guess the collar would slip around on those thick necks, changing the depth of cut.AitchKay
It's scribetacular!
I keep thinking topo map in 3D when I look at the backside, especially the close-ups.
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
So! Are you the analyst the CIA was talking about back in post #38?AitchKay
Well, I have been called anal, and years ago I'm pretty sure I listed on occasion.
So, yeah, I'm Peter and I'm an Analyst
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
Thanks for emailing me, Calvin, I haven't been back in a while. I'm posting this reply to see if it refreshes the thread for me -- I can't access anything after reply # 42. Maybe this will reboot the thread for me, who knows?
AitchKay
Flat List...................Oldest First.................30 replies per page.
That's my settings, seemed to be more like the old breaktime to me. Chronological order, not mixed in.
You can set those settings just under the First Post in the Thread (on each page if more than one I think)
When you come on to Breaktime-I hit the Recent Posts button on the left. This takes you to all the threads and a red NEW button should appear on the threads with recent activity. I click on that and it takes you directly to the post that is new.
If you go to Recent Replies, it takes you to a chronological list of replies. This seemed goofy to me, so I don't go that route.
Your mileage surely may vary.
Welcome back-stick around.
Thanks, Dan, & Thanks, Calvin,
Yeah, I thought about it for a bit, and figured out that there had to be some preferences that could be set. So I now have it set chronologically, rather than by thread.
And Crashd1 just left a VM for me, so we might be meeting soon, and might even be doing another such mantle. More shall be revealed.
AitchKay