Something’s rotten in my basement HELP!
Here is the deal: currently I am renting a second floor of a two-flat in Chicago. Love the place. Hate the smell. Mostly on the back stairs, gets worse at the bottom, gets a little better in the basement. The odour blows into the apartment with the heat in the winter and with air in the summer. I read that it is likely the air, rather than water, that are causing the smell. (Incidentally, even with very careful inspection there is no mould or anything of the sort.) I also read that pouring water into drains may help seal the air space, stopping the smell. Which drains? There are two small, circular, slotted drains in the floor of the basement, both dry. I am reluctant to pour water there, fearing to cause any damage if it’s the wrong drain.
So, what should I do? Please help, I just cannot stand this smell in my house.
Replies
pour water in the drains. 1/2 gallon in each. Can't hurt anything, might make the smell go away.
thanks. i'll do it
I would agree with Rich. If those drains go to the sewer and they are trapped and they are dry, gasses can come back in. Water will fill the trap thus stopping the smell if that is where it is coming from.
I've seen people get in the habit of when they clean the floors, they pour the remains of the bucket in the drain. Gets rid of the water and fills the trap.
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.”
Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.
-Truman Capote
at least you saw them do it and didn't do it yurself...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Isn't that the truth!
I do the floors at the house but no drain.
At work they don't fill them either. I do when I start seeing them ole' nasty black sheet flies. Makes you wonder how they live in that atmosphere when it seems to kill or back everything else off.
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.” Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote
it just meant you were the hearder and not the labor...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I knew what you meant!
Only at home it isn't always that way!
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.” Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote
Irene, if they are drains, and they are in the floor, why are you worried about putting water in them ?
Pour in a half gallon of water.
Slowly.
The trick to keeping that trap from drying out quite so fast, and letting the bad air back in, is to then quickly pour in a cup of mineral oil.
You can buy mineral oil at the pharmacy, and most hardware stores. I've even seen it at the big box stores.
Baby oil is mineral oil with a scent added. If you like the smell of baby oil, that may be a plus in this application.
I'm gonna grow me some wings. And I'll learn how to fly !
thank you so much, i'll do it today
If the odor blows in with heat and cooling, I'm thinking your heating/AC ducts may need cleaning--maybe a mouse died in one. There are services that will come out and clean heating ducts. I think maybe even Stanley Steemer (carpet cleaning service) may do it--anyway, I 've seen ads on TV for such companies, or you could look in the yellow pages.
i've thought about that. but since i'm renting, i'll try the drain thing first. also, i'll change the filter. i peeped in to look at the inside of the air duct, and it was very shiny, clean. of course if there is a dead mouse, its different (hate the thought). thanks for the advice. i'll keep you posted.
"Hate the smell."
-What sort of smell; mustiness, mildew, pet ####, musk, sewer, what? The class of smell should give a clue as to origin.
"Mostly on the back stairs, gets worse at the bottom, gets a little better in the basement."
-This sounds like the problem is on the first floor, not basement.
-Is there an enclosed space under the stairs where the cause might be?
-Are the stairs carpeted? Could be old stains in carpet or if carpet was replaced but the old tack strips remain, the odor could come from there. Even bare wood can retain some odors if the foulness soaked in.
-Where do the drain pipes from upstairs go? A leak in the wall near the stairs might be the source of a musty, mildew or sewer smell; could explain lesser odor in the basement as odor seeps from gaps where pipes emerge there.
"The odour blows into the apartment with the heat in the winter and with air in the summer."
-Apparently it is a British odour - kippers perhaps? :)
-Where is the air intake for the heating/AC unit? The odor source may be nearby.
-How is it in spring and fall when AC/heating are not in use?
-Since you have endured the smell for a winter and a summer, I think a dead mouse in the ducts is an unlikely cause since the odor should diminish as the carcass dries up; unless it's Jimmy Hoffa in there, in which case it could take longer. :)
"I also read that pouring water into drains may help seal the air space, stopping the smell."
-If drains were at fault, it would smell strongest at the drains and the smell would be "sewerish".
Good luck.
Well, other than nasty the smell is hard to describe. It really is like nothing I've ever smelled before. Not sewer, and not mould, definitely. I would imagine that rotten rubbish smells like that. There is indeed enclosed space under the stairs, and yes, around there it smells the worst. The space is a closet full of mothballs, and the odour is only slightly reminiscent of the mothballs. I will look more carefully for any signs of a leak in the wall, so far I did not see anything.
And no, I don't think it's a mouse either. :-) I had the misfortune of smelling that once, and I will never forget it.
As for the location: the basement and the back stairwell for one open space, there are no doors. The air circulates freely, and I think that the odour may be concentrated in area other than its origin.
I saw this on CSI once. They found a body in the wall.
Edited 1/13/2008 7:11 pm ET by peteshlagor
as they say: just because I'm paranoid, does not mean they are not really after me :-) if all else fails, I'll x-ray the walls.
Irene,
The odor additive to natural gas has a somewhat "rotten" smell. A tiny leak in one of the gas lines could account for a persistent, but hard to locate, odor.
That could, of course, be a potentially dangerous condition. If you even remotely suspect this could be case, call the gas company right away.
Allen
Good point. Recently the FD was here and they said there is nothing wrong. Although they did not specifically check the basement.
Where is the location of the return air?
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.” Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote
What is the return air? forgive my ignorance. Where do I go to look?
The furnace is on one side of the basement. The outside AC unit is on the opposite side of the house. The air ducts are visible in the basement only.
This is the area where there would be a louvered vents that feed air into the airconditioner or air handler. It should be in the living area of the house. Most have the filters at the vent. Mine is in the hallway, two vents, two filters.
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.” Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote
ok, here is how our system works (me thinks):
each room has two types of vents, half blow air, half suck it in. the only filter is located in the basement, in the duct near the furnace. the air flow is directed through the filter whether we are using heat or air. this house is old (1940's). all newer houses i've ever lived in, had those types of air intakes with filter in the living area (halls, dining rooms, etc.), but not here. what do you think the implications are?
i'm off to pour water and baby oil into the drains.
Remember to pour the water in slowly, then pour the baby oil in fast.The water needs to stay in the trap. If you pour it too fast it'll wash through and there may not be enough left.Then you have to pour the baby oil in fast enough that some makes it's way over to the other side of the trap as well. If you do it right, then you have a layer of baby oil on top of the water on both sides of the p trap. That oil keeps the water from evaporating out so quickly.If you don't mind the cost of the oil, you could just fill the trap with that, instead.
I'm gonna grow me some wings. And I'll learn how to fly !
That's cool! I have never heard that about the oil in the trap. Sounds like something we can do here. Oil doesn't evaporate too well! :-)
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.” Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote
What about something like Murphy's oil soap mixed with the water?
Also what about getting the owner involved?
KaiserRoo
I am not familiar with a system like that. There is more information to go on so maybe someone will happen by that has this type of experience.
I wonder what is going on in the first floor? You said you are renting the second floor. Is it possible that all the ducts combine somewhere and you are getting a smell from something on the first floor?
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.” Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote
Very normal system, just a little older than the filter-at-return-duct system of today.
The only possible odor source which this introduces is the filter housing at the furnace / air handler.
If the filter housing is not closed in the basement, some air will be sucked into the system from the basement.
So if odor was heavy in the basement, some odor laden air would be pulled into your conditioned air and blown into living space.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Jim,
I do agree. On the duct in that basement, right above the filter, there is an intake vent. It was sucking in the air quite vigorously last night. I did take care of the drains with water and baby oil. Also, placed a few cups of vinegar about the place to evaporate. And two units of Oust (I am generally against unnecessary chemicals, but we are desperate at this point). One of the issues, is that I am so used to the smell now, it is difficult to assess its intensity. The best thing to do is to sniff around right after coming in from outside.
I just watched a home show the other day where a couple had their return air in the floor. The return duct was damaged, thus pulling air from the underside of the house. To add to their misery, they had a broken grey water line which was leaking. This saturated the return ducting. So every time the air or heat came on this air flowed over the water stinking up the house. They have been living like that for two years before the problem was detected!
I am thinking she may also be pulling from a air intake box that isn't sealed properly and may be pulling odors from the depths of the house.
I know we had a weird musty smell once for a week or so til I looked in the return box and saw water. The drain line was plugged and leaking in the return intake. I hate plumbing!
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.” Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote
checked for dead bodies yet?
Find the rotting mouse/mice. I had the joy of living in a renovated 125 yr old farm house, the mice would always fing a warm, dark difficult (for us) to reach place to go to die. Wonderfull smell! Look under anything heavy that you don't want to move, esp if it has a motor, ie washer/dryer/icebox...
I would hire a plumber to check the vent pipes with a scope (the landlord should do this). They may be plugged or they may have been punctured at some point and are leaking.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
its not the mice, seriously. not dead bodies. really.
You live in a town with really good tenant protection. Give this problem to the landlord, it is their responsibility. If the landlord refuses, call 311 and report them.
You shouldn't have to deal with this problem. What part of Chicago are you at?
Of course it is technically, my landlord's issue. Now she is possibly one of the sweetest things this side of heaven. She is 94 and lives alone. If this is something I can handle myself at all, I'd rather do that.
Just wondering if your elderly landlady lived on first floor. I was a companion to a lady in her 90s, lived upstairs and occasionally came across some kinds of food and other biodegradable (or not) stuff she'd "saved" and forgotten about. Guess the main thing is how long has the awful odor been going on and has it worsened. Hopefully pouring water and mineral oil in the drains took care of most or all of it, in which case, you can forget about that closed off area beneath the stairs. Good luck. Keep us posted.
well, an update:
we were excited about the apparent improvement in air quality for the first two days. now we are having a severe cold weather spell, and it got worse! mostly noticeable in the stairwell, not the basement. as for "saved" things by the landlady, it is possible. although those may just be causing a mild bit of smell right by her door. I am pretty sure the rest of it is not to be blamed on that. i removed "seal'n'peel" from the stairwell window and decided I would let in fresh air daily. We'll see what happens next. Thanks for all the feedback.
Far fetched as this may seem. I wonder if a gas leak or some other catastrophe (like what wiped out dinosaurs) might have killed a bunch of rodents nesting in place and their decomposing bodies are making the smell. Sometimes rotting wood has terrible odor when wet but yours seems too extreme for that. Can you get a building inspector to come in with an air quality monitor? yes, you would think cold temps would help alleviate problem. Don't envy you. Keep us posted.
I am so discouraged!
Today it is very cold in Chicago (when i got home it was about 4 above 0) and when i first opened our door it was as if i stepped into a trash shoot!!! it smelled like rotten something with hints of sewer. because it is so cold, the heat is blowing more often, i guess the increased smell is because of that. we are getting the landlord involved, although i dislike that. also i got a high-quality filter for the furnace. i've visited with the lady downstairs, and noticed that her place did not smell as badly. how is that possible? we have separate furnaces, but they are next to each other in the basement.
if I were to call a guy with air quality meter, would I have to pay?
well, i'm hoping for the best. thanks.
When we lived in Kansas we had a smell, thought sure it was a gas leak. Called Gasco and they sent out a young tech who could not find anything, called his supervisor who came out and poured water in the floor drain located about four feet from the furnace/air handler.
In our case they had a humidifier and ran the overflow into the sump pump well, if they had put it into the floor drain the problem would never have happened.
In the next house we kept getting a mildew smell during a/c season. It turns out the humidifer was not shutting off and was pumping a little into the ducts.
This is dicey, but it seems only reasonable that the landlady gets involved. DEP (State Dept. of Environmental Protection - air quality bureau, could be called but if trouble is found, trouble MUST be addressed if a report is written up. I would call furnace people and have them check out that, maybe a free estimate, tho think that's not likely. In other words, look in phone book and make some calls, tell them of your dilemma, maybe there is some wonderful service for just such circumstances in Chicago. Someone should determine if there is something unhealthy about all this. Good luck.
Call the city health department and ask for someone to come by. When it is cold and the furnace is on.
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.” Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote
Irene - try refilling the trap with water and see what happens.
If you're good for a day or two again, then the smell returns, there may be something acting on the trap water.
Worth a try to see what happens, good luck...buic
I to am in Chicago
Could it be the dreaded "old person odor"? Sure "smells" like it to me.
However, my bet is with the traps.
But then again I remember what my Grandmas house smelled like. For some unexplained reason there is a certain odor that tends to be emitted by old people's houses. I really can't explain it. Furthermore, I hope to be one some day and apologize in advance for the odor which I hope to live long enough to emit.
BTW are you Canadian, British or some other english speaking nationality. I noticed the spelling? I sometime have to spell that way as well, but only when I am dealing with Canadians. Not that there is anything wrong with it, I actually prefer that spelling.
Irene,
WNYguy mentioned gas leaks. You may have a gas leak underground that is being altered by microbial action before it gets to you. This changes the smell from that of normal gas leaks to a grosser, less sharp odor.
One evidence of these buried leaks is that the soil in the area turns black and smells awful. Someday the web will have smell-o-rama and we can all sniff your odor file to compare it with our past experience, but in the meantime, "rotting natural gas" was what came to mind when I read your description of the odor.
Bill
right, that would be just fabulous. i would certainly bottle some of this stench and let you have a whiff ;-)
here is how far i got: 311 recommended filing a request for a building inspector to come by. it is my understanding that the are all-around guys. however, i'll go ahead and start praying for a good one now, because i hear they are not particularly motivated.
thanks.
Just hope he doesnt condem the place and you have to move in this weather (wind chill -20 in Rockford).You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
ha-ha, ha-ha, really, funny man you are. :-)
let's hope not
Well Irene, what was it? Got us all curious now.
Couple years back one summer day I'm cruising down my road in the neighborhood when I see a slew of firetrucks IN FRONT OF MY ELDERLY AUNT'S HOUSE!
Somewhat alarmed I stop to see what the hey is going on
only to discover it was a false alarm.
She thought she detected a smell of natural gas and had called in the local fire dept.
Come to find out she had a basket of cabbage sitting in her enclosed porch that had been there a might too long.
Too funny.
Peace full.
On another side of that kind of story. The city I grew up in sat atop a shallow shale oil/gas deposit. Many of the old mansions had their own wells drilled back in the day (1880-1905), often directly under the house before construction began. As the reserves ran dry and commercial gas became available people plugged the old wells with whatever was handy or simply capped the lines off to things like gas lights etc. Not at all unusual for some home owner in the 50's, and 60's to smell something foreign , call the gas company for a leak check and be assured all was well. Next call quite often was to my old mans fire dept to put the fire out .
I remember houses literally being blown apart as result of those old wells. Best one though was a new parking asphalt lot that caught fire. Lot was built over an old gas well that had been plugged with a log. Paving caused the rotting log to crumble and allow gas to escape. First time the pavers put a torch to the hot asphalt the entire parking lot lit up like the top of a gas range. Pretty strange site!
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
dang, what a story!
Peace full.
My dad had some pictures of the parking lot fire. Don't know what happened to them after he died. I do remember him telling the story about it and laughing that when he was asked what he was going to do about it he suggested something along the lines of what jarhead did. Apparently that suggestion was not well received .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I can recall a rather hot droughted summer back in the years of youth where a small fire of brush somehow made it's way into the root system of a number of willows
and for the whole summer smoke could be seen coming up in different locations from the ground.
no charge for that story either
Peaceful,easy feelin'.
Marshmallows anyone?
“Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.” Reagan....
Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor. -Truman Capote
Sounds similar to near where I used to be, a town called Centrailia, Pa. Underground coal mines have been burning as long as I can remember..don't know as to me be wanting to live over that..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
There are a lot of places across PA and southern Ohio that have fires like that , but none as old as this one that I know of. I have been to this little town. Mine fire has been burning for 123 years. http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=521
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
new parking asphalt lot that caught fire
That reminds me of a story.... I walk into one of my clients office and he gives me a hot tip on a stock he just invested in. This new company grinds up tires and adds them to asphalt to make roads. With the rubber in them, they were suppose to last forever! He says, "get in on this Marv, you can make a bundle!" I declined.
A couple of months later, I am looking at the morning newspaper. There is a picture of a asphalt road. The camera has been set on the road for the shot and there is smoke coming out of the aspahlt! The road was on fire! That day I called up my client and asked him if this was the hot company he had touted. He dejectedly replied that it was. We both had a huge laugh.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Edited 1/28/2008 8:49 am by Marv
Well Irene,
what did you find out about the whole deal?
Peach full,easy feelin'.
Well, here is where we got so far.
Our CO alarm went off. The FD got here and found 9ppm by the stove, and nothing in the basement, or the stairway. Also, the next day we had a private contractor come out, and he found decidedly nothing anywhere in the house.
The elderly land lady's son-in-law came to do some repairs and noticed the smell himself. He too, found nothing, and just in case poured some water into the drains with no effect.
So for now, the odour mystery remains. I open the windows for fresh air and use an air freshener. We'll keep looking.
Perhaps, it is a body in the walls after all :-).
Call Peoples Gas, tell them you smell gas, there will be an inspector out within a day! (Ask me how I know this). They can tell you if it is gas, mebbe even offer ideas if it is not gas.
Maybe one or more of the plumbing vents through the roof are frozen/blocked/ineffective and sewer gas is finding the path of least resistance - into the house?
Jeff
sounds plausible: what would one do about it? thanks (roof? climbing the roof this time of year in Chicago is against the surgeon general recommendations )
Understood. If a roofer tries to 'fill' a roof vent from a garden hose it will overflow if plugged - a plumber here might have a better idea but IIRC that's the method.
Let us know what it was, OK?Jeff
Plumbers can do smoke test, but I think that they have to get on the roof and block the vents.That will show any leaks.There is also a pepermint test.I found this reference. It is for approving new construction."(56) The words "Where the Administrative Authority, due to practical difficulties or hardships, finds that a water or air test cannot be performed, a smoke or peppermint test shall be substituted in lieu thereof. A smoke test shall be made by introducing into the entire system a pungent, thick smoke proceeded by one or more smoke machines. When the smoke appears at stack openings on the roof, they shall be closed and at a pressure equivalent to a one-inch water column shall be developed and maintained for the period of the inspection. A peppermint test shall be conducted by the introduction of two ounces of oil of peppermint into the roof terminal of every line or stack to be tested. The oil of peppermint shall be followed at once by 10 quarts of hot water whereupon all roof vent terminals shall be sealed. A positive test which reveals leakage shall be the detection of the odor of peppermint at any trap or other point on the system. Oil of peppermint of persons whose person or clothes have come in contact with oil of peppermint shall be excluded from the test area" are added to section 712.0; ".
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Does the landlady eat a lot of LIMBURGER CHEESE?.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
well, the test sound really great, now the deal is how do i get somebody to perform them. hopefully i can get the land-lady to care without ruining our relationship (best to be on good terms, since she lives downstairs).
incidentally, all the whereupon's and thereof's sound really silly in the context of a plumbing job :-)
Irene,Ever discover the source of the awful smell? We're interested.
Inquiring minds wanna smell? ;)