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Went to the big hardwood flooring center to finally pick up my Bostik’s Best for gluing my bamboo t&g. Picked up some splines, too, for making tongue to tongue connections. We sized the proper one for 5/8 material. Price for a 6.5′ length came to $10. Huh? We talked awhile, and I learned that splines for 3/4 material were only 42 cents a ft. versus $1.53 a foot. Shoot, one run through the planer and I’m saving $1.11/ft. I wonder how many people fall for this, as I nearly did? Maybe this is a business opportunity. Buy the 3/4 stuff and plane it at piecework rates for maybe 50 cents. Still lots of profit!! 🙂
Also, the sales guy just started this desk job after 25 years laying floors. He recommended inserting the tongue into the groove, rather than the typical slide the groove onto the tongue as when nailing. His reasoning was that the one way causes the excess glue to squeeze out onto the top surface of the board, while his recommended way squishes it into the groove, making for less cleanup. Whatcha think?
Jim
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we always rip our own splines..i didn't even know they made 'em....
if you're just gluing... fine.. but if you are nailing you have to lead with the tongue .. or did i miss something?
*Heck:I have never used them for gluedowns. I agree with Mike as it's just as easy to make your own.
*Just gluing on concrete. No nails. I didn't even know the splines (slip tongue may be the formal name) existed as a product until Greg or someone mentioned them. Figured I'd check them out. The only advantage over ripping my own is that the pieces get pretty small. Oh, and the bought ones have pretty, rounded edges so they fit nicely in the groove. :)
*Cloud:You must have bought a good bunch of them pretty round ones. I found a bunch of them at the local shop the other day after kinda insisting on them. The only problem with this batch, is they won't work with this 3/4" naildown Bruce prefinished crap I've been dealing with, and the splines have to be shaved off on the table saw. Nah, it's Bruce in their never ending ability to make my day harder.
*I don't understand why you need to change the direction of the floor w/slip tongue if you are gluing the floor direct to the concrete. I know that there is less possible damage working from the tongue side, but all one has to do is turn a piece of scrap bamboo flooring upside down to use it as a tapping block. On the tongue side of the flooring the bottom edge is set back so that when you use it as a tapping block, that edge does not touch the finished edge of the floor you are installing. Therefore no damage to your groove side. The slip tongue is an unnecessary application. It was made for nail down flooring. GW
*Greg, you just made me hit myself in the head (ouch) and say, "Now why didn't I think of that?" I know...obvious answer. I was so focused on the one part of the equation that I missed the other part.Separate question, anyone need 100' of 3/4" spline? :)
*Cloud:The easiest method for a gluedown is to place the groove side facing out as it will engage much easier, and create less of a mess as the guy has mentioned. Dragging the groove side over the adhesive into the tongue will scoop up some adhesive. Clean the crap up right away with mineral spirits and rags, otherwise you'll be in for a nightmare if you let that stuff cure on the surface and yourself.Once you get a good solid starting area with the groove facing out, I've found it much easier to spread, for instance, a 36" area(depending on the board width), then engage the flooring by the way of foot power. This can be done straddling the area and just plop a board an inch from the previous, and push it in. Wear sneakers, less slipping. Just don't step in the adhesive.It may take awhile to get the hang of it...but it's a suggestion. Again, clean that crap up immediately. I'll never forget my first experience with that gooooey stuff....it was everywhere:(
*Ken, One of the reasons that I stopped installing laminate is the fact that the EPA took away Franklin 711. I am not interested in using urethane glues. But I might have to learn to live with the stuff. Some of my builders need it put down on rare occasion. I know about the clean up issues, but I have some questions. Maybe you can address them.1. How much would you spread for an open area at a time with two guys?2. What trowel dimension say for Tarkett Longstrip, Robbins 3", Kahrs?3. Does the floor need to be rolled and at what point in the installation?4. Do you find that the urethanes really hold, or do you get loose spots and have to deal with it alot? Does it have sucking power?5. I have heard that with Bostick's Best, you do not need a moisture barrier on concrete and that the manufacturer's of flooring are specing it to go direct with that glue or the urethane they private label. Please answer these questions when you have the time. I will probably have more. 6. Does the adhesive require a respirator; does it give a head rush? The laminate king in my locale has his installers use soft oversized rubber mallets to beat the pieces into place. It works pretty good. They just beat the heck out of the pieces of flooring until they give it up and fall into place. It goes fast too. GW
*Greg:Interesting questions.1. Two guys? I work alone. Depends.2. Won't do Longstrip or Kahrs Gluedowns.2a. I feel safest with 35-45 SF per gallon for many applications.3- I never roll the floor as I'm heavy enough to seat the boards proper.3a- It's always helps to weight down certain areas overnight that may be questionable. 4- Sucking power? Not like DriTac has, but that stuff is designed for true engineered floors.5- I haven't used a vinyl moisture barrier on concrete in ages since Bostik took this market by storm six years ago.6- It's incredibly mild(not noticable by me) and not like the toxic adhesives that have been banned.I can't imagine trying to beat the stuff into place as the adhesive would fly all over. Btw Greg...It's engineered...and not called a laminate any longer. It took me a few years to describe it proper, when all that so called indestructable laminate flooring came onto the market.See Ya:)
*Yea Ken, and janitors are called maintenance engineers. They had to change the name to something that sounded more legitimate than just laminate, which is what it is. I don't have a problem with laminate; it has its place in the housing market. Thanks for the input.
*Ken, Greg, et al,Yesterday I jumped in with both feet (so to speak), and it actually went really well. Like the results SO MUCH better than the sample floating floor I did. Really happy with Bostiks. Things I've learned:* Ken is right about the mildness of the glue. My 3-yr-old has a sniffer like you wouldn't believe, and she said it smelled good. No irritation to me, wife, or kid.* Was gonna ask you guys about roller, but by default, I discovered Ken's answer works for me too. * Keep the door closed!!! I was out of the room trimming a piece to fit to the wall. My aforementioned daughter came looking for me to say goodnight or something, and despite all warnings, and before DW could catch her, she walked right over the laid boards, into the glue, and back out again. Urethane sandle-prints. There were no smiles in Mudville, if ya know what I mean. Ahh, no one was hurt, no real harm done, and I'm laughing now.* My knees are creaking and my quads are crying.I do have a question. The far wall is curved, so each end piece is a unique cut. Would you mark and cut each as you're laying that row, with glue already spread, or would you do a larger layout dry and precut a bunch of rows for quicker assembly?Cheers, Jim
*Cut dry first. Could turn into a mess.
*Jim:How many square feet are involved in this project? By the amount of splines you bought it sounds fairly large? I agree with Greg and when you're near door casings or other strange areas I would dry lay first.Yea, those wittle ones can get stuck in that stuff. Happened once to me when a five year old thought she could jump over a 24" glue area. I warned her, and wham, down she goes and runs off to mom, across a carpeted area. If that ever happens just let it dry and you can clip the stuff off with scissors the next day.
*Thanks, I'll try a dry layout next.Part of the leg-hurting bit is that I have to hoof all materials to third floor. Getting the urethane cans up there takes a bit out of you...me.Ken, 4500 give or take. Think I'll be there awhile? :) Ahh, what else am I gonna do on a rainy day...Jim
*Cloud, Do you have a job? Just curious. GW
*Greg:Check out Jim's(cloudhidden.org) site and look at the floor plans. This IS his job and I can't imagine making all those radius cuts, unless I'm looking at it wrong.Jim, that's one big bamboo job and as you know the adhesive ain't cheap...and those friggin' buckets are HEAVY!! I figure on 4500 sf at a minimum spread rate of 50 sf per gallon my cost would be $2200.
*My figures are right about with yours, maybe a little higher. Imagine what you'd have to charge to do the work! When you include curves in a house, nothing is cheap or quick, but it sure is fun to live in!Your second sentence is dead on, and you are looking at it right. One advantage of this is I've become really practiced at scribing accurately!Jim
*Hey Jim:Where did you "start" the flooring? I'm trying to follow your progress and you mentioned humping all the material to the third floor. By the looks of the layout you can probably make a good template for all those radius areas along the top and bottom wall(opposite) lines as shown on the "prints."It would work well and save a ton of time, if the flooring is running paralell to those areas and the areas are alike? There are many other tricks that we can help you with. I'm in for a good challenge, send some pics. Perhaps the best place for those and a new discussion is over at "construction techniques." Greg Warren and I have posted some stuff over there. I'm still trying to finish my thread but my puter doesn't want to.What I would charge? No where near what Greg gets, but that's California 'fer ya. Btw, fantastic looking location but you need a chopper to get some better pics of the outside..Heck if you don't need that cool toy after the pics..just rent one out...LOL
*I would charge you 3.50/ft on the straight runs and add a buck/ft on the diagonal runs. Stop cryin, you can afford it.
*Maybe yes and maybe no, Greg, but even if I could afford your /ft rates, the daily travel allowance from So Cal would KILL me. :)Ken, I started in the middle bedroom on the top floor at the door working towards the back wall. Then I'll work from bedrooms out into the hallway. The framed walls all have nice radii, but the exterior walls don't follow any precise mathematical pattern. With shotcrete, EVERYTHING is approximate! So, lots of scribing. But that's ok, I'm not going anywhere soon (I hope).I'll consider starting a thread over in const. All of your advice is sure appreciated. Before I do that though, I'd need a digital camera, be/c by the time I took a pict of something, developed, scanned, posted, I'd be on to the next thing. I'll think about it. Thanks again for the offer of advice.Only way for a full frontal shot is a chopper, as you said. Or a telephoto that can cover about 20 miles. Maybe the Hubble's not busy. I always thought we'd need a chopper for at least one const detail or delivery up here, but we managed to avoid it thus far. Been buzzed by a few from the hospital and forest service though.Jim
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Went to the big hardwood flooring center to finally pick up my Bostik's Best for gluing my bamboo t&g. Picked up some splines, too, for making tongue to tongue connections. We sized the proper one for 5/8 material. Price for a 6.5' length came to $10. Huh? We talked awhile, and I learned that splines for 3/4 material were only 42 cents a ft. versus $1.53 a foot. Shoot, one run through the planer and I'm saving $1.11/ft. I wonder how many people fall for this, as I nearly did? Maybe this is a business opportunity. Buy the 3/4 stuff and plane it at piecework rates for maybe 50 cents. Still lots of profit!! :)
Also, the sales guy just started this desk job after 25 years laying floors. He recommended inserting the tongue into the groove, rather than the typical slide the groove onto the tongue as when nailing. His reasoning was that the one way causes the excess glue to squeeze out onto the top surface of the board, while his recommended way squishes it into the groove, making for less cleanup. Whatcha think?
Jim