I love the look of unstained Doug Fir. That said, my wife has seen a picture of a TF stained and (a) likes the look of it (more old world) (b) says getting a color on the to work will be much easier (she points out that 99% of the Doug Fir pictures we see show white walls….she’s right (c) she’s my wife…albeit pretty logical and pretty good w/colors….better than me (d) she’s my wife.
So…anyone done something like this? I got a 12×12 slab of doug fir and stained it w/several stains (and tried some other finishes also…Danish oil, boiled linseed,…). The stained that she liked = Red Mahogany.
Anyone done this…any advice?
Replies
can you help???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
a call is in for heilp...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Thanks IMERC
Bob,
Does your wife ever change her mind? If so then you need to protect your ability to return the wood to it's natural state..
An easy way is to seal all the wood with shellac first. It dries really fast, 10 minutes to the touch and 45 minutes and you can sand it.
Thin it with denatured alcholol and brush it on (spray it or wipe it) give it a second coat to ensure you covered everything and then let her go wild!
Pink purple and orange if she wants.. in the end if she changes her mind and wants to see that great wood grain, strippers will remove whatever paint is applied and then you can remove the shellac with the same denatured alcholol. Fast easy clean up No sanding required!
frenchy...hmmm, i never thought of that. She doesn't though want to paint it...she does like the look of the grain showing through, just not that nice/golden/reddish hue of doug fir.
Bob,
I own/ am building a timberframe. In the past I've posted some pictures here but I'm only semi cumputer literate (if it doesn't work when I click on it I just quit) so I can't post my most recent pictures..
I have real decided opinions regarding the finishing of timbers and cringe whenever somebody wants to make one wood look like another.. It never does and always looks worse for the attempt.
IMHO
If she had wanted Mahogany timbers for example in my humble opinon she should have had the timbers made out of Mahogany.. the cost of the wood is only a tiny fraction of what goes into a timberframe.. I made the outer timbers out of Black walnut, the inner timbers out of white oak (double timber frame, ie timbers inside and outside) The modest differance between the white oak and black walnut isn't significant.. In fact all of the timbers for a 5000 plus sq.ft. house came to well under $5,000
frenchy -- you must be cutting these yourselves (at least the joints). Are saying the wood cost < $5K entirely of the difference between the species was < $5K? I'd love to see some pictures. I do understand your sentiment regarding changing the color/hues of the wood.
Bob,
Yes I bring home rough cut beams and plane and sand them myself plus I cut the mortice and tenions or whatever joint is called for myself..
the total cost of all the wood in a 5000 sq ft. house is about $25,000.
That includes raised panels made from fiddle back maple, 917 bd.ft. of Burl, plus 9 6"x6" x10' timbers made from burl. several thousand bd.ft. of cherry plus about 10,000 bd. ft. of white hard maple and about 10,000 bd.ft. of black walnut.. plus probably another 5 or 6000bd.ft. of mundane woods like tamarck or eastern white pine iused for subflooring.
Walnut is usually about a 50% premium over the cost of common woods like white oak..
"So...anyone done something like this? I got a 12x12 slab of doug fir and stained it w/several stains (and tried some other finishes also...Danish oil, boiled linseed,...). The stained that she liked = Red Mahogany. Anyone done this...any advice?"
I'm a little confused, maybe. Are you asking if anyone has ever stained doug fir before? Or..........are you asking for advice concerning what/which final finish to use?
What..you can't read my mind? :) Ideally...i'm looking for someone that's actually stained a timberframe frame and i'm curious if it turned out as they imagined. Also, if anyone sees any major red flags regarding staining doug fir that woudl be useful as well.
"Ideally...I'm looking for someone that's
actually stained a timberframe frame and I'm curious if it turned out as they imagined."What if it turned out better than they imagined? Still interested in hearing from them? <G>To the best of my recollection, it's been years since I stained any fir. I suspect that the pieces you'll be doing haven't been as carefully selected as pieces for a piece of furniture or cabinetry would. So.......I'd anticipate some blotching. That may or may not matter to you or the DW. Depends on the look you're after. I would definitely put some finish on top of that stain though. If you don't, dirt will get imbedded in there and be near impossible to remove without sanding it away. All film type finishes have a life expectancy and if you use one of those you'll be facing mucho worko to strip it off, recolor and refinish. Might be thirty or more years down the road, but it'll come sooner or later. And repairs of dings and such in the meantime will be more difficult with a film finish unless you use one the evaporative finshes.......nitrocellulose lacquer or shellac; specifically dewaxed shellac would be my preference. You can get a flattening agent for that if the inherent high glossiness of shellac doesn't appeal. (See Homestead Finishing for that stuff)I think I'd be inclined to use a penetrating oil finish that offers some wash-ability and easy refreshment. I would also be inclined to forego paste waxing over that oil finish for the sake of easier care and renewal when needed. I would mix 70% Watco natural with 30% oil-base gloss poly and apply as any other penetrative finish. (Trust me, it won't come out all that glossy in the end, but will have a nice soft sheen) Flood surface, then let sit something like ten minutes or so, wipe off excess well. Allow to dry at least overnight and then repeat two more times. More if you like or if the wood requires that. When the final coat has dried for a week or more, buff with bonnet on a drill or buffer. Wax would make it shine even more, but will also cause for a bit more periodic care........and you'd have to remove that wax with some mineral spirtis in the future to add more finish or make repairs. Repairs and renewal are easy with a penetrating oil-based finish. All you need is a clean surface and you apply more over the top of the existing. Couldn't be easier.Edit: You could even boost that mix to 60/40 if you like, but I wouldn't exceed 40% gloss poly......I don't think. Okay..one more edit: If you're looking for advice, here's a little more food for thought. I'd check out those timbers REAL close for evidence of wood boring insects before applying any finish. While the wood is yet bare is the time to get some Boracare on 'em. Might not be a bad idea to put that on whether you see any evidence now or not. Sneaky little b*stards. Some don't wake up and come out for years.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.Edited 5/10/2005 9:46 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
Edited 5/10/2005 9:59 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
Bugs...I remember talking to a guy that used a microwave tech to dry timbers (pretty expensive) and he used to say that *lots* of bugs woudl be on the floor following this. That said, i've never heard any of the timber folks talk about treating the timbers with Borate or do anything. That said, i'm not sure what you can do. Seems like Borate's just going to coat the surface.
I would like to put some kind of penetrating oil on the surface...whether i stain it or not.
Bob,Boracare will penetrate to a depth of 3/8" in bare wood when applied per directions. Residual insect control is 30 or so years. And it kills the eggs as well. That's mighty good protection. Unlike Tim-bor (which can, but may not), Boracare won't/shouldn't leave stains on the wood. It's the preferred product for these applications. It will however, raise the grain a bit and so a little prep sanding may be desirable before staining and finishing.Then get/let the MC of the wood return back to 10% or less before finishing. That shouldn't be a problem really. Needless to say........your call as to whether you want to use it or not. A google on Boracare should yield alot of info.Transmission fluid ?? That's a non-curing/non-hardening/non-oxidizing fluid.....I'm pretty darn sure. Not to mention odor inside the house and all the dust and dirt such a substance would attract. And no finish would adhere to it....if I'm right about the non-hardening deal. I just wouldn't myself. Here's a few articles you might find useful.http://www.bugspray.net/articles/pretreat.html
http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/spec/pick-boracare_label.htm
http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/boracare.htmThe contained eythlene glycol in Boracare is simliar to the product that you can use to soak green wood so that it can be subsequently worked without checking and splitting. (PEG) In the instance of Boracare I'm sure it helps with the penetration (displaces the contained water/moisture in the wood cells) while the borax component is carried with it and that does the deed on the bugs. Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.Edited 5/12/2005 11:37 pm ET by GOLDHILLEREdited 5/12/2005 11:41 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
Edited 5/12/2005 11:48 pm ET by GOLDHILLER
Goldhiller probably has some very good points re: trans fluid on interior woodworkhappened to be just the ticket for this potting shed cedar roof
apparently it is used routinely in Montana on their wood roofsdo have a look at Olympic transparent stains ( or Cuprinol or Cabot depending on where you are )
That wood gets darker and darker thru the years is hard for people to concieve.Its like people who ive built cabins for saying -"how can I keep it the way it is now; so new and light colored." Well look out into the woods...all wood turns grey unless u can keep sunlight ; interior pollution(soot,dirt;grease) exterior pollution ect. And its gonna look diffrent on every side of the house depending on exposure. White pine inside is a perfect example..starts turning browner the minute u leave the yard; add some poly with its amber cast and u really speed the process up.Poplar looks green , sometimes beautiful purple..but in 3 years itll all be mousy brown.
Think a few shades lighter if u stain or down the road it may be darker than u planned.
Thanks all and frenchy you really need to post some pix sometime...sounds great. I'll keep everyone posted as i get into this, so stay tuned.
anything you stain it will get darker with time....
after awhile it'll occur to you that everything is too dark and want to lighten it...
never seems to fail...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
We are staining a timber frame right now.HO wants the beams to look like they have been there for 100 years, so this is what we are doing.First coat is conditioner to even out stain ( fir can be blotchy).Next is cherry stain.Next is sanding sealer.next coat is the antiquing , we are using a dark stain that has been cut 90% with thinner,more of a wash than anything.This dark wash brings out all the little "defects" to make it look old.Make sure you put on the sealer coat before the dark wash or you will darken the whole beam.Follow this with 2 coats satin varathane and you have an "old beam".Tell your friends but not your clients!you'll look like a pro.
"I started with nothing and have most of it left"
OK hamjob...you've got to share some pic's once you get done.
Bob
Here is a couple pictures of doug fir that has been stained to give it some age.
One is done in a mahogany stain, the other walnut.
Doug
btw, that is not timber frame, that is post and beam....timber frame is joined with mortice and tenon joinery using oak pegs (all wooden joinery)...post and beam is joined with metal connectors....a little too dark for my liking, i personally like dfir's natural color....you did nice work though, good job!
Mike
I didnt do any of the work on the timbers, just happened to be in houses that we were doing cabinet work in.
Doug
Bob you're getting great input here but much of what is being talked about is the way i like to treat furniture i buildfor your timberframe I would recommend your looking at say Olympic oil transparent stains specifically fir naturaltone, cedar or redwood naturaltone - good painless stuff w/ plenty of linseed oil and not too much colorant to get you into trouble ( I have used similar products by Cuprinol and Cabot )as has been mentioned fir can get muddied so try them outyour wife likes red mahogany - I don't think you can do better than trying some transmission fluid on fir and present that to her - don't tell her what you put on it - did that for a lady on a potting shed I built over cedar shingles and got hugs, kisses and brownies w/ coffee
Doug -- thanks for the photos. The more samples i can see the more it helps out.
IMERC/stonefever -- we've got an invitation to take a look at an unstained TF made from doug fir that's about 5 years old to see how much it's darkened.
John -- transmission fluid. I had to read your post a couple times and remember the color to xmission fluid (Dextron III to be specific). I'll look at some of the stains/oils that you mention. Thanks.
Take her to some of these TF's up close. Especially some that have been around for a while. Note how those finishes are done and how they look relative to the "checking" that has occured. Have her (not you) research this issue and make the decision. I've learnt from experience that I always leave the color decisions up to DW.
Interested in these colors
Do you still have the pictures of the stained douglas fir
Thanks
Try hardwax oil. Osmo sells a quality product.
In this photo the oil has been applied to the cornice trim just under the trusses (serving as an indirect LED light valence as well) and up the rakes. It has not been applied to timber frame trusses or decking at this point--that is raw doug fir.
What state of moisture is in your beams? In my area we can't get dry beams in timber frame size. Our most used species are red oak, hemlock and pine and they are usually pretty green. As the beams dry out they will have to be able to breathe, top coatings like poly or varnish can peel or blister if put on when the beams are still wet. It can take over a year for the beams to dry out with heat. Douglas fir doesn't crack open like oak and hemlock. When they do, lighter colored interior wood is exposed. The same can happen at some joints.
I've posted pictures of this frame before. It's red oak stained with Minwax dark walnut. I didn't do the staining. It was also coated with Minwax polyurethane. I thought the Minwax stain was waxy. The poly can be lifted off with blue masking tape. I don't think the moisture caused this and there was plenty of drying time before the poly was put on. To the left of the window, you can see a lighter check that has opened on the beam.
There can be quite a bit of work in staining a frame. I think it would be smart to keep the process uncomplicated. Once the frame is stained, going lighter in color will mean either paint or a lot of hard work.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Hammer, thanks. These won't be totally dry so i do think it'll take a year for them to dry out. I'd thought about the checking as well...if we do go down this path it's something that i'll have to deal w/over the first year.