I have just begun building new stairs with a landing between floors. I am stuck on how to determine the railing angles on the landing newel post as I turn to go down the next six step flight. The railing from second flr to the landing is straight forward but making the turn has me puzzled. Must I construct a tool to hold the railing from the newel on the first floor at the correct height at the step just prior to the landing, then connect the turn of the rail as it comes off the newel on the landing? This is my first experience and really am stymied. I read sometime back an article in FHB that I think demonstrated a shop made stand (?) but can not locate the issue. Help. I have gotten lots of help in other matters from readers. Hope to get some more.
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not real certain what the Q is...
is this an over the newel type railing?
To find simple angles, you can lay a srap s few feet long alongside the newel on the tip edges of the treads, then trace a line from the newel onto the scrap. Then you have a drawing to work from to measure the cu tangle. Do a test cut first before 'testing' how expensive your firewood pile can get.
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thanks for the note Piffin. No, the rail ends into the newel about 4 inches below the top of the newel. Then comes off the side to go down the next flight. I like the idea of laying the rail on the toes of the tread but the treads are let into the stringers (used to be open stairs now closed off). I guess I can lay the rail on the stringer and get a pretty close approximation of the angle but I am wondering how long that first return off the newel should be before I drop it to join the long rail 34" about treads. You can tell I am really new at this one.
it's the cover article of issue 190. but if you don't do this often I would find a cheaper way to get a "second pair of hands" than the hardware for that jig, nice as it is
Thanks for the info. I will look up the article
am more confused now. need a picture to get a grip on what the problem is.
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Is this the type of corner?
You need to lay it out like Piffin said,your heights and angles will determine it
NAIL IT !!!
Thanks Steve. The newel is like the inside newel in your picture. My stringers are offset i.e. the bottom one is offset from the upper one by about two inches. I wanted it a little more dramatic. I will look up the article but sounds like I need to enlist some helper. This morning I laid the rail on the stringer leading up to the landing newel got the angle, now I need to figure out how long the straight piece should be coming off the return from the newel, then the drop to connect to the railing.
It depends on where you place your newel posts in relation to the tread nosing and the turn. This can sometimes lead to a taller landing newel. The railing should always be parallel to the angle of the stairs. Sometimes you need to use a gooseneck, they are typically one or two risers. It's important that you figure all this out before hand. Landings should fall on a riser. If your starting newel and the landing newel are positioned the same, the rail should hit both correctly, if the landing newel is set back or forward, you have a problem.
You want all the like ballusters to be the same height, if you have any. You also need the rail to be parallel with the angle of the stairs. Cutting a piece of 1/4" plywood in a large parallelogram can help. Rip it so the top indicates the height of the rail. Then you can position the newel to match. Slide the plywood up and down on the tread noses. Landing newels often have a larger block area so the rail can intersect it lower on the stair side and the balcony rail can go higher. Each stair is unique as are the choices in parts. It's not always easy, even for a pro. A lot of stairs aren't figured out well ahead of time. If the code officer is a real stickler, it can be a challenge to make everything come out correctly.
L. J. Smith used to have a pretty good tutorial, don't know if it's still on their website. It doesn't answer all the questions. I only have this picture, don't know if your's is anything like it or if it will help. I positioned the newels so they would be in the correct plane in both directions.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Thanks for the info. My newels from the balcony to the first landing are in the same plane and the railing is set (temporarily) but now I am turning to go down to the first flr and my stringer going down is offset (2") from the one coming down from the balocony to the landing, so I will make a short (approx 2.5") turn then down to the 1st flr newel. I guess I need a gooseneck (?) to drop down one riser hgt to connect with the railing which will be parallel to the stringer going to the 1st flr. I bought iron balusters so I don't want to mess up cutting them to hgt. I like the plywood pattern idea and will use it today to make the fit. I assume it can be made from the railing to stringer hgt in place from the balcony to the landing. If I set it on the tread just below the landing it should give the hgt of the drop (gooseneck), right? I think I am on my way. Thanks for the great help.
FRom what I read, you're using a post to post rail design. I hope you are using a landing newel, bottom of stairs newel has a different flat area. The first thing I do when getting ready to layout rail is to make a " pitch block " for each run ( yea they should both be same, but, stuff happens ), this is the pro way to determine angle. You might have been better off getting a book on stairs before starting. Coffman makes a pretty good book, which you can get from a cofffman dealer ( about 10 - $15 ). It explains making a pitch block.
After using a pitch block to get angle, you just lay a rail on the treads, measure up, to figure out newel heigths.
Roger
Made my pitch block. My newels are fabricated out of glued up red oak 1x4's, kept square with concave edges on top. Real plain. I picked up a copy of Scott Schlutter's book but it doesn't help my situation.
L J Smith has a free instalitation guide to download (pdf) from thair websiteIt will tell you everything you need to know
http://www.ljsmith.net/installation_steps.html
I hope this helps
Elmer
Thanks for the info. I am going to check it out asap.
jr40:
To add any to what I already posted. One of the first things I learned, when I was learning stairs, is to bear in mind that every thing goes either straight down or straight up. For instance if you are laying out a skirtboard ( inclosed stairs ), and you lay it against the wall and resting on the nose of treads or sub treads, it is going to go striaght down, which simplifies layout.
At the same note, if you lay the rail up the stairs resting on the tread noses, to figure out the layout and measurements for fittings, etc, it is going straight up. If you are say, using the most common rail used ( a # 6010 ) and say the angle is 38* ( per miter saw -- or in engineering 52* ) then the plumb cut ( angle ) is about 3 1/8" long( a 6010 is 2 1/4" square cut ). So if you want rail heigth yo be 34" , you figure you are going to raise the rail just light of 31". So if you are figuring out a goseneck, lay the rail on tread noses and figure on the upturn to be at 31" top of rail to top of upeasing. Clear as mud.
Roger
jr, if you click on my website, and go to the stairs, and see one that's close to what you're doing... I might remember how I did it<G>http://www.tvwsolar.com
We'll have a kid
Or maybe we'll rent one
He's got to be straight
We don't want a bent one
He'll drink his baby brew
From a big brass cup
Someday he may be president
If things loosen up
I wish I would have seen this years ago before I built the original open riser stairs which I have now converted to closed, keeping the treads but covering the old pine stringers with oak 1/4" ply, capping the top and bottom edges of the risers, adding newel posts, etc. I am impressed with your gallery. Fine work. I wish I would have taken a before pic then an after (if there is one). Only get 3-4 hours a day to work on it so I do a lot of rethinking, recutting, remeasuring. Fun but without the help from you guys, I would be a bit crazy. I didn't see anything that really looks like what I have here. Thanks for your offer.
Whoa! I am a bit confused since this is my first attempt at this. I am going to go slow with your info and see how I can do. Let you know.
"I am going to go slow with your info and see how I can do. "Sounds like the best advice for you is to rip a 2x4 to same size as the railing, and practice with it. once have that done, you have a pattern with notes scribbled on it.
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Thanks P. I came to the same conclusion late last night and am on my way this morning. I'll let you know how I come out. Thanks for the note. One of my problems is I have notes all over the place then forget which ones are the most current and valid.