I am building stairs in my new house – they are going to be open on both sides. This means cutting returns on each side of each oak tread. I am asking what is the best way to cut the treads for attaching the return nosings. It obviously is not a straight cut as I have to 45 it an inch or so back from the front edge on each side.
I find treads available in 36 inch and 42 inch with returns already attached, but not for the 45 inch length that I need. Besides, these are very pricey – $60 and up.
Is a band saw the best way to go? Any other suggestions?
Thanks,
Bob
Replies
Are you opposed to just wrapping all three side of the tread with nosing, then its just two simple miter cuts. Either that or just let the end grain be your nosing. make the bullnose with a roundover bit in your router and with a little sanding it should look pretty good. If you insist on mitering the nose from the solid tread, I guess a jig and a sharp backsaw would work or a big sled on the table saw with the blade tilted. You could do the same on a band saw, but I don't think you would get consistently quality miters. Sounds tedious, good luck!
The problem with sunny's suggestion is that it does not allow for returns onto the skirts as shown in these.
We will layout the cut in pencil, then scribe with a shop knife to avoid splintering, then use either the TS or 12" slider to make the initial cut and finish it all out with a bosch jigsaw. Trial fits and then biscuits. We actaully fit the end piece to the tread after it is seated in place sometimes to get snug to the skirts. A couple bar clamps would be handy when you have both sides open. Sorry - don't have any close ups or work in progress shots.
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Piffin,
Nice radius.
-zen
Bob,
If you have a router, you can make a swoop jig if you like the look.
-zen
Que es "Swoop Jig"????
Sorry no one answered you.
Its a jig to use your router on that eases the front 45 of the returns.
You probably have seen it. Stan uses it on his treads, look for a downward shot.
-zen
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=54574.1
image 223c
Edited 3/10/2005 7:27 pm ET by zendo
Edited 3/10/2005 7:31 pm ET by zendo
Thanks for the suggestions. I am impressed with your curved stair work.
I guess table saw and jig saw is the best route. What width do you cut the nosing to - it must be wide enuf for the cove under it - about 2 inches?
Bob
Let's think this through. The miter meets front nosing equalI overhang from rough stringer in front nosing 2" or 2-1/4"At 2" I use 3/4" riser trim and 3/4" scotia under nose. The nose projest from the solid trim riser or skirt by 1-1/4", so I make the returns the same.
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swoop return with a router jig.. just the way stan foster taught me.. wish i could find that pictureMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
We've considered that before, but it looks too modern for us.
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howdie,
give me a couple of days and i'll post pics of my swoop jigs.
in the past, I have used a RAS for the straight part, and then a jig saw for the swoop.
used jig saw to cut swoop on return stock. clamped a belt sander to the bench and used it to refine swoop on the return stock.
that method seemed kinda slow and archaic. so i came up with the two matching swoop jigs.
took pictures of them and typed up an article to submit to FHB. but never heard anything back from them.
We use a router with a straight milling bit and a pattern jig to guide the cut. We mark the end of the tread and rough cut the miter with a jig saw to within 1/16 of the finished cut. The router will make a perfect cut every time without a thought.
Bob, I've made treads the ways Zendo & Piffin both described. Either method will work fine, although for me routering is a bit faster. Just depends on if you like the look of the curved miter. For straight miters, I cut 'em just like Piffin; for curved miters, a simple jig made from scraps guides the router for both the return and the tread cut. Regardless of the method, make sure your treads aren't cupped at all. With returns on both ends, it might be wise to get your skirtboards on both sides of the stairs first, so you can measure the actual exact distance between the 'tails' of the tread returns. If the attached pic works, you can see what the routered miter looks like. Sorry for the quality, its a scanned pic.
Mike
FHB had an article some time back that covered this- I think Andy Engel wrote it.
He basically ganged all the treads together, and cut the 45s for the returns on all the treads at one time. I don't remember what he used for the long cut, but i'm guessing a slide compound.
Yes, I wrote that, FHB 114. I still gang them together and cut the miter with a circ saw and a straight edge. I've never owned a scms, and always made the straight cut with the circ saw. I'd finish it with a handsaw. An scms would have been sweet, though, as would have been a radial arm saw.
I never thought about routing the miters.Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
I used Andy's approach (read it in the article he wrote) on a stairway I recently built. Even for a rank amateur like myself, it worked like a charm and all the returns came out closer to perfect than I hoped for.A sliding CMS would have made the straight cuts even easier, without worrying about setting out the straight edge for the circular saw. But I worked with what I had.I thought the "swoop" method would be easier, but after I ruined a few test pieces and one tread, I tried Andy's way, and all 12 treads came out just right my first try. I couldn't seem to get the router template lined up properly on the tread to make everything fit right. In a production environment once you worked out the bugs, I'm sure it would be much faster and more accurate.-Sean
Sean, the check's in the mail.
AndyAndy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
I was relying on my memory when I made that post.
I remembered about cutting the returns with the treads ganged.
I wasn't so good about the rest.
And its not getting better as I get older. :(
There's no future complaining about getting older. <G>Andy Engel
Senior editor, Fine Woodworking magazine
Other people can talk about how to expand the destiny of mankind. I just want to talk about how to fix a motorcycle. I think that what I have to say has more lasting value. --Robert M. Pirsig
I use a slide saw for both the miter and the cut across the width. Then finish the cut with a 10 pt saw or a sabersaw.The cut on the good side can be done entirely with the slider, the bottom of the cut can be cleaned up with a chisel if needed.
Also ,I suggest that when you nail the returns, glue just the miter and handnail the returns.Especially if the treads are yellow pine, gun nails can curl up ,and go thru the top of the tread.
Another vote for "swoop" jigs...very easy, although, I actually like the looks of mitered returns better.There is also at least one other method that hasn't been mentioned. I did an "Arts and Crafts" style house and the treads were mahogany with straight cuts at the skirtboards. The nose was a quarter inch radius. The returns were a darker mahogany that ran just slightly proud of nose, and was eased all around. It looked pretty cool....and, 1 1/4" on the width of the return, as well as back over the skirt...and it looks nice to line the balusters up with the inner edge of the return, if possible... Don't worry, we can fix that later!
these guys have 48" double returns don't know if they'll do 45" as a custom. Never used them, I've just been snooping around for treads of my own. good luck
http://www.stairsupplies.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=81
D.
Thanks, I already found them on the web. I might use them if I find doing it myself is too much work.
They have a large variety of stuff and will do custom work.
Thanks again
Bob