There have been several threads here about land disputes, adverse possession, easements, etc. which have been very interesting. I recently ran across this general information about adverse possession and since it pretty well covers the waterfront it may be informative and helpful here.
Like they say, consult a competent lawyer if you have a legal issue. But just for general information this may be helpful.
Sometimes the best way to avoid a problem is to be aware.
How to steal your neighbor’s property and avoid jail
First step: Get into a squatting position
“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s property” is part of the Ten Commandments. But real estate law in every state says it is all right to steal your neighbor’s land without going to jail if you comply with state law.
That news may be shocking. However, it’s true. In fact, statutes in every state encourage the theft of your neighbor’s unused property.
The selfish reason is the state wants to collect as much property tax as possible by keeping property in use.
But when a property is vacant and unused, the rightful owner often fails to pay the property taxes. So state laws encourage stealing property and returning it to the property tax rolls.
‘SQUATTER’S RIGHTS’ ARE THE LEGAL BASIS FOR STEALING REAL ESTATE. Every state except Louisiana adopted variations of English common law in the 1800s and early 1900s. Louisiana chose the French Napoleonic Code, which is often very “foreign” to non-residents.
For 49 states, English common law includes the tradition of “squatter’s rights.” Simplified, that means if I occupy your real estate without permission and pay the property taxes for the number of years required by state law, I can eventually claim full fee simple absolute ownership of your property.
For example, the house adjacent to mine has been vacant about three years. If I moved in and continuously occupied it, paying the property taxes when they come due, I could eventually acquire title to this property. However, I’m not going to do that.
The reason is I observe the legal owner occasionally visits his empty house. He has even applied for a building permit to remodel it. If he found me living in his house, he would summarily throw me out as a trespasser so I have no hope of ever acquiring title to that property by “squatter’s rights.”
Replies
TWO LEGAL METHODS TO STEAL YOUR NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. Each state has laws allowing two methods of stealing real estate without going to jail.
1. ACQUIRE LEGAL TITLE AND FULL USE. The most difficult method to steal your neighbor's property is "adverse possession." That means you must occupy the entire property without the owner's permission for the required number of years.
California has the easiest "squatter's rights" adverse possession law. Just occupy a California property for five years without the owner's permission, pay the property taxes, and you can acquire full ownership by then suing the legal owner in a quiet-title lawsuit. It's that easy.
However, Texas and several other states have much tougher adverse possession laws, requiring "open, notorious, hostile, exclusive and continuous occupancy" for 30 years. Needless to say, not many Texans claim title by adverse possession.
Other states have adverse possession limits between these five- and 30-year extremes.
The nation's leading adverse possession case is Stevens v. Tobin (251 Cal.Rptr. 587), decided by the California Supreme Court. Thomas W. Stevens sued the legal owner in a quiet-title lawsuit. He proved that he adversely possessed for 15 years the San Francisco apartment building at 1899 Oak St. in the famous Haight-Ashbury District. Stevens showed open, notorious, hostile and continuous possession. However, he was unable to prove payment of the property taxes. Therefore, he lost his attempt to gain title to the building by adverse possession.
Edited 7/7/2006 3:12 pm by intrepidcat
Edited 7/7/2006 3:12 pm by intrepidcat
2. STEAL PART OF A PROPERTY BY HOSTILE USE. Perhaps you don't want to acquire a neighbor's entire property without paying, but you just want to use part of that property, perhaps to plant flowers or vegetables. All you need is a prescriptive easement. The legal requirements in each state are usually the same as for acquiring title by adverse possession, but you don't have to pay any property taxes. In other words, you must occupy a portion of your neighbor's land by open, notorious, hostile and continuous possession for the number of years required by state law. Interestingly, use need not be exclusive so you could share the prescriptive easement area with the property owner or another user. However, permissive use defeats ever acquiring a prescriptive easement. If your neighbor says "Sure, go ahead and use part of my property," you will never obtain a permanent prescriptive easement. Prescriptive easement examples include driveways, paths or any portion of a property that is continuously used without permission. To perfect a permanent prescriptive easement, after the required number of years' use, the claimant should bring a quiet-title lawsuit against the titleholder. PREVENT LEGAL THEFT OF ALL OR PART OF YOUR PROPERTY. Periodic inspection of your property is the best way to prevent someone from acquiring title by adverse possession or partial use of a prescriptive easement for the required number of years in the state where the property is located. If you discover someone using all or part of your property, erecting even a temporary fence or evicting a trespasser blocks the continuous hostile use without permission. To illustrate, years ago when I was a summer student at Stanford Law School, one Sunday morning I got in my car with a few of my law school pals to drive into nearby Palo Alto for breakfast (we couldn't afford "brunch"). But the main drive was blocked with a barricade. The police officer directed us to a detour. As a curious law student, I asked what was going on. He explained every summer Stanford blocks its private roads for a few hours on a Sunday to prevent anyone from acquiring a permanent prescriptive easement.
THE EASIEST WAY TO DEFEAT HOSTILE USE. If you are concerned someone might be occupying all or part of your property without your permission, there is a very easy way to avoid losing all or part of your property. Just grant permission. Depending on state law, you can post a sign, record a notice or personally notify the hostile user that "permission to pass over my property is revocable." Consult a local real estate attorney for exact details. WHEN PROPERTY OWNERSHIP OR USE IS MOST LIKELY TO BE LOST. Millions of individuals own real estate they rarely visit. Or, owners die and their heirs and friends don't know about a distant property they own. For example, a few weeks ago I was talking with a Florida friend who bought Arkansas real estate last year on eBay. He was extolling about all its benefits. Then I asked when he last visited his land he said, "Never. I haven't seen it yet. But at a $3,000 purchase price, how could I go wrong?" That is a property just begging for an adjacent owner to adversely possess or at least acquire a prescriptive easement. Inspection is the best way to prevent loss of title or use of a property to be certain nobody is trying to take over your real estate. Also, be sure your heirs, relatives and others know where and what property you own. SUMMARY: The common law of adverse possession and prescriptive easements has valid purposes to promote property use and property tax collection. However, realty owners can prevent theft of all or part of their property by periodically checking to be certain nobody is occupying all or part of their real estate without permission. For more details, please consult a local real estate attorney.
(For more information on Bob Bruss publications, visit his Real Estate Center).
> "permission to pass over my property is revocable."
I remember seeing wording like that on brass plates in part of a sidewalk. So that's the reason for them.
-- J.S.
You have to exercise your rights or risk losing them.
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
So rights are like muscles -- interesting. ;-)
-- J.S.
Yes, if you've got a situation where a neighbor's driveway, fence, flower bed, etc. encroaches on your land, you need not go over, pound on the door and get red in the face.
Instead go over and say all cooperative-like "How about I give you a license, so you don't have to worry about that edge of the driveway...?" Once you've got a signed license, their encroachment is permissive (by you) and hence can't result in adverse possession -- and licenses are revocable, much easier to terminate than easements.
One of my first neighbors fenced out part of his property, and giving me a 85' x 6' wedge of his lot to maintain. I mentioned this to each of the next three owners that bought and sold that property. Even offerred to help them move the fence if they wanted to. The final owner ended up being a jerk even after I made the same offer to him. Since I had paid for half that fence, my intial inclanation was just to remove "my half" with a saws all, leaving him a 2" tall mangled chain link fence. Common sense prevailed and I built a privacey fence on my line, and left him the wedge between the fences to deal with.
How would that permissive thing work from one owner to another in a case like mine? Had I not told any of the three other owners,could I claimed that wedge of land?
Dave
You could in theory claim "adverse possession", after some number of years, even if you casually mentioned the situation to the landowners. Especially true if you mow the area, plant flowers there, etc. If there was an exchange between you and them to the effect of "Is this OK?/Yep" then that could weaken your claim some, but hard to say how much. Something on paper would be much more substantial.There's a logical purpose behind the concept of adverse possession. Basically, it protects someone who THOUGHT they owned the land from years-later claims that they don't. This was important in the "olden days" when deeds and surveys were apt to be a bit "loose", though it's significantly less important (and more of a bother) in modern times, when everything is entered in GPS coordinates into a computer.But think of what would happen if you've owned a suburban home for twenty years and someone were to come along and say "The surveyor screwed up -- your property lines need to be shifted 30 feet to the north. And, oh, by the way, your garage is now on your neighbor's property." Adverse possession protects you from such a problem.Even in this current situation, if you sold your property, and, after a few more ownership changes, the situation surrounding the 6' strip were forgotten, the concept is protective. The future owner of your property could innocently put improvements on the strip, and could be greatly injured by someone attempting to take it back. OTOH, if the "rightful" owner doesn't know he owns it, there's no real potential for injury on his side.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
DanFunny you should mention this. I have some land in East Texas. The folks that had a house adjacent to my property had accidentally built their two car brick garage and a storage shed on my property. The folks didn't have a survey done as the contractor said that he was building way within the property lines established years earlier when the property was subdivided and sold off by the original land owner.We didn't know as we did the same thing when we bought the property. It was the last piece of a homestead that remained.The folks were trying to sell their house and had to have a survey done before the final sale. So we both found out that they had a problem. So I sold them a 10ft swath of land from the top corner to the bottom corner (approximately 1/10 of an acre) for the cost of a new survey of both properties. I felt bad for the folks as they had always been good neighbors as they kept an eye out on my property. I don't have any residence on the property as I wanted to retire out there and have something built.Anyway, it worked out great for both of us.Tim
I had a similar as my lawyer was doing the title seach for mine. Apparantly, the south side neighbor's shed on the way in was partly on my property. I just worked a small swap as the deeds were being written up, so they had the proper setback
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I've always understood it that a fence establishes a new property line after a certain number of years. Had you not put up your own fence, I think you could just go into your local records office and request that the deed be changed to reflect reality, and it becomes your wedge.
Even telling the owners doesn't amount to much - I believe that real estate is the one thing for which there is no verbal contract.
always understood it that a fence establishes a new property line after a certain number of years
That goes back to the state-by-state adverse possesion rules. I've two property lines on my wedge-shaped lot, to which the fences have never conformed. But, I do have documentary evidence that, for 51 years (one more than the fence can be proven to exist), the property taxes have been paid for the lot as legaly defined; not as physically confined by fences.
This is correct-able, but it will take five separate lot surveys (to legally define the areas), and three (plus one) title transactions, with a "cost" of about $1000 each--I've much better thngs to do with 8 grand, even if I had it. (The plus one has to do with an inheirited-by-the-City road--has no declared ROW--that just was laid down over intersecting lot lines; so I get to pay property taxes under a City-maintained road . . . )
So, in my case, only the one owner on the one side--who is nearing the 30 year mark--can claim possession, but, they will nnot have paid property taxes, which will kibosh that a bit. I have to pay attention to this, as they have an added-on garage that is over my property line (and violated both Deed and City setbacks even from the "implied" line ofthe fence). If, heaven forfend, they relinquish possession to their heirs, and a Probate Court is involved, then the process gets mandated, whether it's financially convenient to me or not.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I think it's harder to acquire actual ownership of a parcel like that than it is one where the owner is not even occupying the land.
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
You forgot the "trendy" way to steal property -- eminent domain abuse. Are you a developer who needs land to develop? Find a quiet shorefront neighborhood that isn't McMansions or high rise condos, and "influence' the town's government to declare the area blighted. You move in and make sh**loads on the construction profits, the town makes sh**loads in increased tax revenues. Everyone wins, except those whose homes were pulled out under them.
That's the current trend here on the Jersey Shore.Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
It must not be too hard in Texas. Just ask the folks that lived in the neighborhood that was displayed so the Dallas Cowboys could build their new stadium.They're setting s dangerous precedence here.Just my 2 cents ......
Yeah, that's the new and improved way.
I don't advocate stealing or trying to steal anyone's land. The thing is that if you don't know how to prevent it then it could happen to you.
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
intrepidcat,
I am aware of exactly that sort of possesion.. A minor bit of fraud was used so I'm not certain how legal everything is.
I guy I used to fly with in the Navy got fired after 12 years with a company and that left him destitute.. He tried to drive from Califonia to Milwaukee in an old VW rabbit pickup. It's water pump failed in Western Wisconsin so to escape a blizzard he squatted in an abandoned farm house. Reading letters from an attorney that had been returned unopened it was apparent that heirs for the land had been unsuccessfully sought.
He modified one letter to indicate that he was the heir in question. Days later when nearby farmers seeing smoke from an abondoned house stopped in, he offered up the letter as his "ownership proof". Since they'd been using the land in question they went from confrontational to fellow conspiraists. Property taxes had been paid for 5 of the required 7 years for all of the land including the section with the house on it and woodlots..
He agreed to let them keep the fields if they would continue to pay the property taxes on the section he occupied..
It's been well over 20 years and he's since neatly renovated the house, works as a shop teacher in the small school district and is considered a upstanding member of the community..
Only in America, guys probably a democrat to boot. lol
Hold on a minute.
In AR if you dont pay your taxes you could lose your property . In about three years it will be auctioned in what is know as a state land sale . The owners have 30 days to appeal it or just pay it . Then the buyer gets his check back if it is "redeemed" . Owner has another 60 days to apeal a wrongful action that would take it to court against the state. In two years all liens to the property is quieted. It is then ready for propostion to full title.
During the 2 years a restrictive title is held and the land or buildings can be used such as cutting timber or renting . After completion of title you can get a buiolding permit on it . It is yours.
Ive done several. Most of the time I get my check back.
Its not stealing though.
Tim
Tim
I was able to buy a house the way that you described but I think thats a little different then the way that IC is refering to.
What I did and what you are describing is simply buying a place that was in default for taxes. I think that what IC is talking about needs a bit more cunning-ness to pull it off. Sort-of-a secret or deception to make it happen.
One of the houses that I own in Iowa has a really nice lot, a row of hedges along(using that term lightly) one boundry with a strip of land about 25' X 100' on the other side. The strip I mentioned is between the row of hedges and the actual property line. I get the feeling that the guy on the other side is always trying to figure out a way to "aquire" this strip of land from me. It would be really benifical to him whereas I hardly notice its there.
I may have to remind him that he can use it but at the same time make sure he's aware that it belongs to me!
Doug
A tax lien sale is entirely a diffeent thing than adverse possesion claims
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If you reaqd the firsdt og his pasting , thats what it is referring to and then he goes on about it .
He covers a lot of stuff .
I understood adverse posesion was paying back taxes with out a court procedure. If you pay long enough and finally petition the court you may be granted the property just on back taxes forst before anyone else . Thats they was tey try to do it here but Im not sure that is what its called.
Tell ya what , a tax sale is shaky enough for me that its pretty weird. Its still in limbo for over two years with out a real warranty deed. You cant build on it for that long or more and you can lose it . Mean while you have your money sitting on it. Of course after petion of final mortagage is granted its yours.
Tim
I read it all, and don't remember him even mentioning a tax sale, only adversse possesions ( which include in some cases, payment of taxes) I just figured you got a little defensive because you do tax sale ones and he used the word stealing...I have a unique deal like this with my own place.
My quarter mile long driveway rambles in along the property line between me and my neighbor to the north who is a lawyer. before I bought the property, I asked about a road sharing agreement or easement. The raod was build before he or I owned our respective pieces as just a fire and timber harvest road and never recorded. He said "I won't gived you permission to use my land for a right of way, but as long as i can use it to acess the back end of my property, I'd be a fool to actively do anything to stop you from using it." So he drives in to inspect it once or twice a year. Neither me nor my lawyer could figure out his strategy on that, other than avoiding maintanance costs for the road or trying coyly to leaved the door open to me for an adverse possesion claim later on.I Never worried too much one way or the other about it. If I ever lost right to use it, I would just have to build about 200' of new road on my side of the line. Other than that, I own about 700' of the 900' clear and plain.
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Qoute from the article;
WHEN PROPERTY OWNERSHIP OR USE IS MOST LIKELY TO BE LOST. Millions of individuals own real estate they rarely visit. Or, owners die and their heirs and friends don't know about a distant property they own. For example, a few weeks ago I was talking with a Florida friend who bought Arkansas real estate last year on eBay. He was extolling about all its benefits. Then I asked when he last visited his land he said, "Never. I haven't seen it yet. But at a $3,000 purchase price, how could I go wrong?" That is a property just begging for an adjacent owner to adversely possess or at least acquire a prescriptive easement. End quote.
It wasnt stealing . Yep that was my point in that he included too much in the stealing headline though parts of the others are in fact stealing . It had to be at least a previous tax sale . Since it was as cheap as it was I assume it was sold under the restrcitive deed time . Although it could have been past the two years but still had a restrictive warranty deed. Of course Im only talking about Arkansas as each state has their own authority . Anyway in this example this man bought it .
Im in the process of buying another tract that someone else has bought in a land tax sale and has been several years. The stickler is that he has never went to court for permanant title. Ill be attemping to buy his full interrest in the property. Gotta get a lawyer on this one .
I bought a bluff property over looking the Arkansas river but I did not own the road to it at all. However the road had been in use some 40 years of record as a road for access to the river and some orchards. [before the river was ever dammed] This road went directly through my property on the edge line . The owner had no problems with it as long as I didnt block it . I ordered power and that stopped me as I had to at least have a right of way although I had right to use it for passage and could not be blocked from it under state law. I went to see a lawyer and he said we can sue for a utility right of way but I suggest you buy it and give all the lawyers money to him in the first place and be his friend. So we did and paid a high price for it , but every one was happy. I got city water last year so that property is ready to build on finally.
Tim
The power co here makes everybody concerned sign a separate CYA easement before they run wire regardless what the deeds say abou5t rights of way. My lawyer and ( when I was On th ePlanning Board - the town's lawyter) both said that Maine has some of the worst ROW and roads/easemet laws anywhere. They have started to adress the issue in the legislature, but sometimes the fix is worse than the problem.Paper roads is one of thje worse of it all.
A hundred years ago, somebody would drive stakes and register a developement at the county and if they only sold a third of the lots, some of the roads never got biilt. Still show on maps as paper roads, but trees growing and gullies deepening and stakes long gone...We had a permiot app for a landlocked lot to build, but the paper road had long been in use by neightbors. There were two sheds and a drilled well right smack in the middle of it. The lawsuit started, and in the middle of it all, a law came in effect - that any old paper roads not built before some certain date in the late eighties would then fail to exist...The lawywers are still milking that one, but because most of the parti3es are beligerant. One of the owners offered the guy an alternate right of way to access his lot, but he wouldn't so....What you did to buy in and keep peace is the better way.
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Its not stealing though.
Right. Just buying at a tax sale is all.
Those can be good but they take a long time.
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
My Neighbor stopped by today. He lives two doors down. This spring he bought the 16 acres that runs across the back of about 8 of our houses. He bought it to keep a development from over taking our back yards.
This large over grown field has some drainage problems so he set about redoing some old ditches.
He made it down to where the ditch meets the road. Did a real good job....today he received a summons to court.
Apparently the home owner that lives where the ditch meets the road has been using a small (15ft) slice of his land for storage for the last 27 years. She claims adverse Possession. So when he went in with the equipment to clean it up she decided to sue him.
He now faces a $90,000 law suit plus lawyer fees and the loss of some of his newly purchased land.
The land was recently surveyed and posted.
He said if she would have asked he would have sold her the 15ft for almost nothing....now he will fight and counter sue for his legal fees.
I guess I'll have to go to Maine and check my land and bring a bunch of no trespass signs...something I said I would never do!!!
I guess I'll have to go to Maine and check my land and bring a bunch of no trespass signs...something I said I would never do!!!
It's something you need to do all right.
Check with your tax man but that trip should be deductible.
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
Remember- we are NOT lawyers!
There is no legal recognition of "squatters' rights." What you are probably thinking about is "adverse possession."
Simply occupying a piece of land is not enough. Paying taxes on the land is not enough. You must also occupy it, with the knowledge of and directly against the wishes of the owner for the required period of time. Even then, you need to get a court to recognize your claim.
If the owner has been pursuing legal remedies to recover his property, you're out of luck. If the owner doesn't know, you're out of luck. If the owner has granted permission, you're out of luck.
I think the last time "adverse possession" was successful, the owners had feathers in their hair!
There's two items that might be worth considering, wisdom and what's legal. Legal would say it's a way to take someone's land, wisdom with some common sense, would advise that some people get a bit hostile and when pressed will solve problems in and illegal fashion... e.g. people have died over the price of brunch let alone taking advantage of someone's lack of knowledge on real estate law. Legally, you could be DEAD right!
Always consider the cost of something before you pay for it.
For years I've looked at little "crosses" sawn into my side walk. Everbody has them unless the sidewalk has been replaced. I'd like to know the "sidelines" to the property. I was contemplating using the 3,4,5 method to give me a line. The official survey has the footage so I may be able to measure down my sideline with a long tape and locate the back corner. Maybe it became an issue when my neighbor put up a "For Sale" sign last week. Then again maybe a buyer will have to have a survey and I can catch the surveyor on the job. Ideas? Tyr