I’m wondering if anyone can answer a question on steel stud framing. I generally do house reno’s with the occasional commercial job. One such commercial job turned into a repat customer. Here’s what they want. They would lime thier warehouse devided down the middle so they can rent it our. This means a 30′ high by 30′ long wall and in the commercial world this means ( I believe) a 6″ steel stud wall fully insulated with double 5/8 drywall each side. My question finally is how do you frame a 30 foot high wall.
thanks, any input would be appreciated
Replies
30' tall, Now thats a wall!
I would rent a man lift and have 1 guy in the air and 1 guy on the ground standing the studs and attaching them one at a time.
I would imagine that 30' studs are going to have to be 18-20 gage. Getting that top track on will take two guys in the man lift maybe so you'll need to get something that is rated for over 800 #s at least.
I would also get the 2" slotted track that will allow for deflection of your roof. You will only need that for the top track. The bottom track should just be the standard 1".
Have fun rocking that baby. I see needing some scaffolding w/ wheels. If you can find a scissor type man lift that you can load some 12' rock and two guys on, that will definitely help.
Good luck, Dave
I would add some CRC(cold rolled channel) or black iron as i've heard the old timers call it as a stiffener on that high of a wall. You have to cut all your studs the same way so the knockouts line up. If it is to be a fire rated wall assembly and the roof i s insulated you will have to cut back the insulation and run the rock to within a 1/2" of the roof and fire caulk that joint and every other penetration.
I was thinking the same thing. It should have a stiffener.
Black iron is not required in walls that are rocked on both sides because the rock keeps the studs from twisting, which is the purpose of wall stiffeners. Most manufacturer specs will point this out. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Dave describes the process pretty well. Run the top and bottom track and stick frame it. You will need slotted track on top for deflection and perhaps a detail for wood blocking at the head of wall.
I would consider using a 1- 5/8" flange (exterior stud) instead of a standard 1-1/4" because 20 gauge 30 ft. studs will want to fold in half when you lift them up. Either have a rope to pull up the studs one at a time, or more common is to jamb the bottom of the stud into the wheel of the lift or scaffold and "walk it up". Once the studs are vertical they are easy to maneuver. Face all the studs the same way.
One important step is marking layout on your rock when hanging a tall wall. You have to "straighten" the studs as you hang the rock, or you will be screwed when hanging the second layer or other side.
In the drywall world we call this type of wall a 2 hour rated demising wall.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Check your codes, you may not need a two-hour rated assembly. You may be able to get away with 1 layer of 5/8" type 'x' on each side. I'll bet your drywall supplier will be able to double-check your assumptions, a 30' high wall requires care when sizing your studs.
The BO may save you some bucks ... let him tell you what you should be doing. It is a fire wall separating two different occupancies, so you want to have no issues. Things like electrical outlets and whatnot may also become an issue (penetrations of this fire wall. May seem simple on the surface, but it's good to go into it w/ your eyes wide open. Let the BO be your friend (I know, it's a concept many on here will deny is possible).
Not sure ... might need fire blocking part way up?? In a residential wall, it might be required ... maybe it's different w/ metal studs, though.
As a union carp in NY, I've done a lot of these over the years.
We usually scaffold both sides, with bicycles (outriggers), so the edge of the planks are 12" to 14" from the center line of the wall. Go full length and height, you'll save a lot of time in the long run.
Frame with 6", 16 gauge stud. Self drilling screws for the framing and rocking.
Set the tracks. Stand up the studs with a guy on top, with a rope and a pair of locking c-clamp vise grips (R-9 ?). Clamp the grips onto the end of the stud, tie the rope to the grips, and pull them up. Set each one as you go, screwed in place. DO NOT leave any loose just standing in the tracks.
I'd use 4'x10' rock for the whole thing. First layer stand up a 5', 10', 10' then 5'. Second layer 10', 10', 10' for your 30' height. Staggered seams.
We usually would get the 5' and 10' on and screwed, then load up the planks with material. It's much easier to push up the boards to the second level when you can lean them against the face of the rock you just put up and lift them up to your partner.
Framing, rocking, taping and finishing all go safer and faster with it scaffolded.
As someone else pointed out, be sure to seal the top and penetrations with fire stop chaulk, if / as required. buic
I am curious if you know, I remember hearing something about a code for welding steel stud walls over 10'. I believe it involved some sort of blocking to be welded at 10' increments, and from reading your post it would seem that the drywall would be used for the stiffening/shear.
Maybe it had to do with a residential application?
The only time we had to weld and block was in horizontal situations like a mansard roof.
Welding at connection points to roof, after being assembled with framing screws. Can't trust screws to stay in over time.
And the trusses that made up the roofs profile had to be rocked and taped to meet fire code. Whatever was spec'd, 10' or so is about right.
I've done 100's of walls over 10', res. and comm., and have never seen welded blocking like you describe. Maybe a local thing? Or a specific situation/condition.
We'd frequently add blocking in areas like bathrooms, kitchens, or offices for backing to attach stuff, but I know that's not what you're referring to...buic
No one has mentioned the roof structure. Will the wall go parallel to the bar joists, or perpendicular? If perpendicular, you will be framing two walls: one from the slab to the underside of the bar joists, and then a bunch of fill-in sections between the joists. The top track of the lower wall will be fastened to the underside of the joists. And then you get to cut the sheetrock to fit neatly around all the joist members.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Not sure, but I think that would depend on the required firewall, rating, and how you approach it. You are bringing up a potentially valid point, though. The ceiling can be part of a fire rated construction ... across the ceiling and down the face of the wall. Some fire walls have to go to the roof deck. It depends on a lot of the details of what else is going on. The building official should be the first stop.
As I indicated before ... on the surface it can be simple (concept), but there may be some issues and details that can be awkward. The OP should maybe sit down w/ the BO and talk about it. Make sure there are no surprises down the road. If necessary, talk w/ an architect who should be able to lend some advice for minimal effort.
I was ignoring the ceiling. If the wall is perp to the rafters, for a true fire wall it has to go to the roof deck, and you have to cut in around all the penetrations. My point was that it's easier to frame a wall to the underside of the rafters/joists, and then build little walls on top of that."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I understood you ... just providing [yet another] point of view depending on the realities of the OP.
Of course FastEddie your right, the roof is important. The roof is Q deck, not insulated on the inside and the wall will be running parallel with the rafters/struts.
You've all given good ideas to think about & I can get 30' studs. The client is still pondering the price but if they go for it ( they already said yes, but I haven't got a deposit yet so who knows) I'll let you all know how it turns out, Maybe post a picture on my site for those interested
Thanks to everyone for thier input I appreciate it.
Paulc245