Here is a tricky detail I would like some feedback/ suggestions on:
We like to use a 4″ building stone veneer around the foundation, over the cmu stem wall. Rather than stop the veneer below the bottom of the first floor joists, we like to run the veneer up to be level with the first floor (appearance that the house is framed on a stone platform). Traditionally in shingle style work, the siding was flared to keep the wall structure in line with the foundation. We would rather not flare the siding, keeping it straight and inline with the face of the stone veneer (straight exterior wall, no flares, shelfs or otherwise). But alas, the tricky detail: To do this the wall framing is ‘cantilevered over the stone veneer, and not fully resting, if at all, on the cmu foundation. Make sense? How would you tie that foundation detail together so that the load from the wall is transferred to the cmu, and then footing; since cmu is the structure, and the stone is a veneer? Can you bear a 2×6 wall on stone veneer?
Thanks in advance, for any suggestions.
Fgarrett
Replies
I see what you are proposing. One question I have is, even if you could do it, what will protect the edge and underside of the floor deck where it rests on the veneer?
No one will know from the outside where the floors really are (except where there are exterior doors, I guess), so why couldn't you run the floor joists and rim joists out over the veneer, but resting on the CMU wall (stopping the veneer under the mudsill that the joists rest on (mudsill would also have to be cantilevered and therefore more than a 2x8)). Then bring the siding down to cover the sheathing (the sheathing would cover the rim joists and the edge of the cantilevered mudsill). Don't know if you can follow what I'm saying without a diagram, and I don't have any way to make a diagram. It could well be I am missing something that you are trying to achieve and won't if you do it my way, but....
your point and explanation was very clear. However, I guess the situation is more complicated, and one of personal preference. In your suggestion, there are too options to make the stone appealing, IMO. One you would have to raise the floor level, so that there is an appropriate amount of stone showing to be appealing to the eye (anything less the 18" vert. really looks bad, and not worth the expense) Two, if you don't raise the floor level with respect to the grade, the wall tends to 'hang over' the foundation, sort of like an oversized coat. I think this is a very poor detail found in quite a few suburban/ cookie cutter houses. Again that is a matter of personal opinion.
So we like to bring the stone up, and leave the floor at a 'normal' height about grade, 18"-30". This way, the stone can have more exposure, and not have lots of steps going up to the main entrance. The other aspect of why we are after the detail the way I explained, is one of visual comfort. It appears more natural to have the wood siding "sit" on a nice solid base, than overlap that base. Again, look at the traditional shingle style version of this detail, where the siding flares out to meet the face of the veneer. The stone is like a plinth, on which the wood sided house rests.
I appreciate your suggestions, but we have tried that method many times before, and just do not like the visual result.
Thanks,
I did this because we wanted to match the river stone foundation of the 1835 house without laying the foundation with the stone. Did another brick ledge inside the foundation and that is where the band joist sat. The joists were hung with hangers. We used thinner river stone as the veneer and ran those up the face of the block. The wall plate sat on the sill fastened to the top of the block. May have been a 4" block at the top, sorry the memory is filled with more recent things. I do remember long j bolts and grouted rebar down into the footings.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
I see what you are saying--I guess I was figuring you would raise the stem wall the thickness of the joist plus mudsill, but then, like you say, you have to step up into the house more, or you have that distace (top of stemwall to top of floor) less with the veneer (about 12" less).
You can do this.
I'm not sure I would, but I understand why you want to. I too, like the look of a stone water table. I don't think I ever thought about where the floor framing would line up with the exterior before. I have done a crude sketch of a method that would work. If you are building a new home, you will need to get an engineer's approval to do such things.
My feeling is that the foundation will have to be in and the floor system in place. You will need to run the plywood subfloor out past the rim joist (Pressure Treated in this case) by 5 1/2". A PT 2"x6" will then be installed under the plywood cantilever. A quality waterproofing membrane should then be installed from the top of the rim joist. over the exterior CMU wall, then over the CMU wall used as a stone shelf. Weeps need to be installed to drain and vent at this elevation. This point must be above grade. The stone veneer can then be installed. While I see you are figuring 4" stone, normally you should figure 6" because the stones can run oversize. This can save a lot of cutting backs. Quality masonry wall ties are used to tie the stone to the CMU wall and the wood framing. The 2"x6" plate installed under the plywood subfloor is packed tight with mud on the bottom for good support. This plate could even be doubled.
This should be allowed to dry before banging around on it. Once firm, you can then build your first floor walls.
carpenter in transition