My wife and I are on the early stages of planning our new home, in south central Kansas. We’ve told the designer and builder that we would really like stucco (and a little stone) on the front of the house and probably at least the most visible side.
We have already been warned about Efis and definitely will make sure none of it gets close to the house. The designer and builder have given some good suggestions on how to get a good stucco finish that will last and won’t have problems.
Our main concern now is resale of the house, in 10 or 20 years, will we be able to sell the house or as one Realtor said will it be the “kiss of death”?
What kind of recommendations do you guys have while putting the stucco on the house? we are going with those Zip Walls (the green stuff) and the builder said maybe even putting tyvek on top might be good because of the stucco. The designer pointed out a method by which they put stucco on top of brick but that sounded way too expensive.
Anyways, any ideas, comments, suggestions are very welcome.
Thanks,
–Carlos
Replies
Which ever system you do use I'd recommend taking lots and lots of digital photographs of the substrate, flashings and all the prep and archiving them in you computer so that when you decide to sell the house you can prove that it was done correctly by burning a cd of the images for the buyer (or what ever the medium is in ten years)
I really was impressed by the Spiderlath system at the International Building show this year (http://www.spiderlath.com) and it is a good backer for stone. BASF has a very good stucco product as well but any of them are only as good as their flashings and substrates.
EIFS need not be the kiss of death either.
Another idea would be to use Insulated Concrete forms like PolySteel. We just did a foundation out of that stuff last week and have been very pleased with the whole process. (Polysteel did send out a really good coach/salesman who guided us through the process and basically made sure we had a successful outcome. I'm not sure other job sites would have as good a coach as we had but they do offer great classes at their facility in Georgia.)
Here's some images of and further discussion about the project. http://chandlerdesignbuild.blogspot.com/
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"We DON'T build them like they used to."
Thanks for info.
We considered ICF at the beginning but we were a little turn off by the price and having really wide walls.
How would you say the cost of ICF vs regular stick building compares?
Thanks,--Carlos
I have to admit that I haven't done the math for that but it seems likely to be more expensive. The 8" blocks with stucco both sides aren't all that much thicker than 2x6 construction with sheetrock, sheathing and siding. And I can't imagine any other construction that will hold up to a drunk in a cadillac as well... (see image) Sorry I can't be of more help.M
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"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
That picture is priceless :-)
casolorz,
Fundamentally there should be no differance in cost between tradional stick building and ICF construction.. at one time here in Minnesota there were few ICF homes built. As it became more and more popular prices dropped steadily untill currantly bids on houses make no differance between ICF's and stick built..
Having built with ICF's myself I really appreciate the ease and speed they go together.. plus their durability and efficency.
You are aware they have a 200 MPH wind rating rating plus a 2 hour fire rating.. aren't you?
ICF construction used to command a premium because electricans weren't trained how to wire prior to pour sheetrockers weren't aware of the ease of sheetrocking with ICf's and so on ..
Besides order your house with ICF's with brick ledge and you'll be able to easily install bricks or stone on the face..
Interesting, we must be way behind here in Kansas. We have only a couple of builders that do ICF and one told us it would be about 15% for the total cost of the house.What would you recommend as a supplier of ICF, I have only seen logix in town.Thanks,--Carlos
casolorz
There should be no reason why ICF's are more expensive than stick building.. If you've ever done it you know that it is fast and easy. Like many things there is a premium charged because of the lack of experience.. Imagine if ICF were the norm and stick building was just starting to catch on.. can you imagine the premium charged?
What!!!??? Nail together all of those boards? Then fill them with insulation? Where will we put the electrical and plumbing? <grin>
OK I used Reward forms but there are many good form providers.. the issue is who is aggressive? Someplace only have one supplier and then I'm afraid you're in a bind.
Some suppliers can be aggressive but the contractor collects a premium and doesn't want to give it up.. Around here suppliers are aggressive and contractors are hungry.
casolorz,
Why risk it? If your goal is to sell your house some people will automatically reject it because of fears of stucco. That has the probable result of lowering your market which also means you will lower the price you sell it for..
If your goal is to educate people who simply have it wrong then by all means go ahead! Stucco can be done well and durable..
The cost differance between a good stucco job and a brick/stone job isn't significant.
Well the reason we want to "risk" it is because we like the looks of it. We really don't like siding, and brick is ok, stone is nice but really expensive. But stucco is what we really love in terms of looks.
We are always trying to keep resale in our minds but then we do want it to be our home, after all we will be driving up to that house for the next 10 or 20 years every day, I don't want to feel like we didn't get what we wanted. I also don't want to fear the future resale everyday either.
Why fear the future re-sell, let your kids worry about that. Build the house for future fuel costs at $6.00 a gallon and you'll be fine...Just my opinion, which, with fifty cents, won't even get you a cup of coffee anymore. (how much is Starbucks a gallon? good thing my truck doesn't run on coffee!)m------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
casolorz,
Well then get what you want!
My preferance shouldn't determine what you select so why let some possible buyer limit your choices?
Besides we all know stucco can be done properly, just make sure it is.. (PS ICF's really seem to be a natural fit with Stucco!
Here in central Wa. state many of the upper scale homes are being done in stucco. Its cold in winter and real hot in summer. Make sure you have a good drainage plane and as others have said...research it.
If you are building a custom home that you currently intend to stay in for 10-20 years and you like stucco, use the stucco. In 10 years, stucco might be all the rage, but there's a good chance the realtor you talked to won't be around!
Things can change: you might have to sell the house in a year and end up losing money because it's stucco OR because the market in your area has gone down OR because you don't have the time to wait for a good offer OR.... Just make sure you take these into account in your financial planning--keep the house within your comfort zone, NOT the most your loan officer will give you!!!
And count me as another vote for ICF's. You won't hear the wind howling outside (unless your windows or doors are bad).
Best of luck with your project.
Kathleen
Zip Wall literature states it should not be used under masonary or stucco.
Bruce
Interesting, thanks for the info.
I'll let my builder know.
Is all the green stuff I see in houses around here Zip? I see them put up masonry finishes all the time.
I contacted Huber to find out more and got a reply from them, quoted below:"ZIP System wall sheathing is approved with hardcoat stucco only and not synthetic stucco (EIFS). Typical hardcoat stucco requires using two layers of underlayment, usually two layers of felt. ZIP replaces the first layer only, therefore when using ZIP System wall sheathing with hardcoat stucco, you will need to add one additional layer of felt."We are definitely not using EIFS so we are probably fine. We did find something called El Rey OneCoat, sounds interesting, although we will probably go with just the traditional stuff just to be safe.
I like the looks of stucco that is well done. I grew up in So Cal and stucco is used a lot. If it is well done it has a nice modern look. The details around windows and other openings are what shows a good job. It's nice when a little bit of other materials are mixed in with it also.
As far as selling it to people in central so Kansas, good luck with that. We just moved from there and if it is perceived as being a bad product people will hold it against you. As a whole I've never seen a group of people more set in their ways than people form Kansas. The constant wind must drive any sense of risk right out of them ; ^ )
Edited 3/7/2008 11:38 pm ET by popawheelie
Yeah, people here are nice, but yeah they are extremely set on their ways.
You want stucco? Research it, get it and do it right. It can be a beautiful thing.
10-20 years?! How the hell does a realtor or anyone know from 10-20 years?
You like it, it's good stuff, do it. You're the one living with it, not the prospective buyer 20 years from now. That's worth a hell of a lot more than the extra $$ you or any realtor THINK you'll make by not having stucco.
Coulda shoulda woulda for 20 years? Take and afternoon and go lay in the meadow with your wife and watch some clouds. It'll do wonders.
hehehehe nice reply :-)
Since I am pretty sure we are gonna go with stucco, what are the best methods of applying it? lets assume we won't do ICF since I still have to talk to my builder about it.
Thanks,
--Carlos
Stucco is done by crews that do it all the time. Stucco crews are a lot like plaster crews. Everyone has a job and there is a steady stream of stucco going on.
The flashing and prep work is a different crew. If the prep work isn't done right it will show in the finished work and you will have problems with water. Someone has to make sure all the flashing, weep screed, and metal is on right before the stucco goes on.
As popawheelie said, prep is key. The other secret to success it the old-school 3-coat application. Each coat should cure (a week is common here) before the next coat is applied. That significantly reduces cracking. Should end up around 3/4" thick.
You can add coloring to the top coat and you'll never have to paint. Be careful though. It's hard to tell what it will look like until it's dry. The neighbor thought his would be too light so he added colorant and now it's too dark.
I did a car dealership here in Eastern Canada about 15 years ago where as you may well know, our weather here is or can be, very extreme. I hired a very knowledgeable guy who cared about his work. The most important ingredient in a good job is the temperature and humidity. He did not work in the heat of the afternoon. He was adamant about having the perfect day. He never started an individual section that he couldn't finish in his time frame. ie ( he never came back the next day to continue doing the same wall ) He used the tinted topcoat. Cement board was our base. The building is still looking today the same as it did the day after he was finished.
Gary
Nice, we are really considering that cement board underneath, sounds like it would work perfect.
One other thought is that Autoclaved Aerated Concrete may be more "builder friendly" than ICF's Commonly called Hebel Block it's not as strong as ICF's but has good thermal properties, is light weight, and lays up like conventional masonry more or less. http://www.safecrete.com/ A lot of guys around here are hitting energy star using cinder blocks filled with "pour-in foam". Not my choice but it does work. Since the blocks are getting stucco inside and out they can use "seconds" which helps cut down on cost. Since it's regular cinder blocks there is no up-training the masons or code officials other than getting the computer modeling from energy star to confirm the energy performance and right-size the HVAC equip for the HVAC company and code enforcement officer. You would also need a knowledgeable engineer to get the steel reinforcement done right. It is probably the cheapest way to get a high performance stucco finish building but you need the right team to pull it off so more appropriate to someone who builds ten to thirty homes a year.------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
Thanks for that info, I'll take a look and talk to my builder about it. He is pretty open to try things, so I'll see what he thinks.--Carlos