Something I have noticed is the leaving behind of trash and empty containers by assorted subs on construction projects. Is this the norm and what are people thinking? I guess people assume that the last person left (more than likely the owner/builder) will get to clean up after me. I, for one, make it a practice to carry off my trash.
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I guess because we are roofers we have a different standard. LOL. We have to carry off loads..it is our JOB. And on a copper roof, the trash is $$$$$$$.
I see eles. stripping out the scrap CU and leaving the sheathing, now THAT is just wrong.
I worked with a moron 2 decades ago, that would send his soda cans down the vent stacks. Some people are just not fit to wear skin.
We pick up our crap, but I don't get paid to police anyone else.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
I have irriatable Vowel syndrome.
Tends to be the norm!
I tend to back charge for cleanup! This made all the difference!
I back charged my plaster sub for his trash. He wasn't happy but he could have done it for free.
Everyone who works for me picks up their own debris.
I don't deal a lot in single family dwellings, but on my jobs there are very large dumpsters.
Everyone is responsible for getting their trash into those dumpsters, if not they get charged by the gc.
I would expect the same on SFD just a smaller scale, well it was when I used to do them.
“It so happens that everything that is stupid is not unconstitutional.” —Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia
When I was the PM for a GC doing a renovation a few years back, another contractor pretty well trashed the place (he was hired and paid by the HO. We got the job based on my previous work for him). I sent the guy a fax saying, "I expect my jobs to be kept clean. I will be there Saturday to clean up your mess. They bill me out at $90/hr straight time. I just want to confirm your address so I know where to send the bill, estimated at $300."
The guy called me from the HO's office, very annoyed, sent someone the next day. HO called me back 10 minutes later, laughing, and thanked me for expediting the cleanup.
A contractor, working on his own, is responsible for his trash. If there will be a large amount (as in replacing a roof), then it is his responsibility to get a dumpster.
On a job with a general contractor, it is the GC's job to, among other things, provide toilets and dumpsters. It's also the GC's job to keep the site clean.
The only times I've encountered problems with trash on a jobsite is when the GC has chosen to not have any place to put it! Then, it seems everyone spends half the day moving the trash out of their way.
Simply making a big pile somewhere doesn't qualify, either. Sooner or later, you will have to work around, over, and under that pile.
I will admit to a certain hatred of those who casually leave their trash in the attic, crawl space, or above the drop ceiling. The ceiling tile guys, and the HVAC guys, seem to be the worst in this area.
I've known several who thought dropping stuff in the vent pipes was 'clever.' Some folks just never grow up.
Edd, it all depends on the agreement between the trades and the gc.
In the first two decades of my career as a framing contractor, we werent required to clean up anything. The GC's were able to employ laborers that were much cheaper than framers. It didn't make sense to have us cleaning up debris at $35 per hour when the laborers were paid $12 per hour. We worked for some builders that didn't even want us to clean or sweep out the house when we were done. They would send in a laborer the next day after we finished to clean out the house. They'd toss everything out a window and a construction cleanup firm would come by and pick everything up on the outside.
Like I said, all these arrangements are made by mutual agreement.
blue
I worked one summer as a laborer cleaning sites in South Carolina one summer in the 80's.
It was one of those arrangements..... super hot, no running water on site.When picking up a "empty" caulking tube I discovered that a carpenter had left some liquid in the tube as a joke. Did I mention the no running water part yet? Can you guess what that liqud was? Dry heaves insued....be kind to laborers.
Some joke!
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I have seen places for new onstruction where the standard was that if the subs provided the materials, like electricians and plumbers, they also did their own clean up and haul off, but when the general provided materials, more common with framers, that the GC then provided the cleanup.
This estanblished a clear line of demarkation and avoided the onfusion of a general's cleanup labourer picking up somebody elses materials that might be stil in use
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I cleaned up all of the packaging an electrician dropped on the floor (while he was at lunch), only to find out he picked up all the labels for determining materials used on the job (for billing, knowing what to restock, etc.). Looked like trash to me...to him it was an inventory tracking tool. So I got to dig through the trash for him.I worked for a builder that got tired of stuff he needed being tossed, so he stopped providing dumpsters and got a dump truck that made the rounds each day. He trained a worker to save things of value (plugs & weather stripping for doors, 2x for blocking/backing, attic access drywall lids, etc.). He insisted that things just get piled in the garage for the cleanup person.One of the summer help cleanup people was his daughter. She was a University of Colorado cheerleader and you could always tell when she showed up...work ground to a hault. Hey why is it so quiet? Did someone trip the breaker...Ooooh! ; )
I have a daughter that turns heads when she stops by too.I remember once recieving delivery via UPS for Baldwin brass. I openned and inventoried it and then put the bubble wrap piece back over it and pushed it into a corner. Hundreds of dollars and a seven week wait on it. aweek or so later, I noticed that the box had become a trash depository for lunch stuff from painters and was on the way out the door. aught that one just in time
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I think what happens is that what is left on site is less that they have to pay to dump themselves.
I/we all spend a lot of money on dump fees. I hate bringing home garbage but have to, often. I use a dumpster if it's available, but they often are not.
Personally, I clean up all, I mean all my own trash, but then again, I don't work new construction very often.
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As a GC, I consider it a priority to keep a trash trailer/dumpster or other appropriate receptacle for traash ands debris on site.
I oonsider it a DUTY for subs to get their own debris INSIDE the ontainer I provide. When they don't, they hear about it
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Same old story - IMO, we are hearing 2 stories here. Remodeling and new construction.
In single family new construction in everyplace I have worked the GC provided a container of some sort, and everyone was expected to use it. I have never seen a sub remove trash from the site, except maybe the insulators - and I'm not really sure why they do it, except that maybe it is just as easy for them to throw it in their truck - which is normally backed right up to the the building anyway and take it back to their shop dumpster. OTOH I'm still employing the premadona plumbers - but I'm prepairing to bid that out...
My debris removal company sets up bins, and when full they pull the sides off the bins off and use a Bobcat to load their single axle dump trucks. I feel sorry for those people. Yesterday one of them told me that someone had $h!t in the bin - can't imagine why someone would do that.... They will pick up my site too - to a certain extent, but out of courtesy I make everyone put trash in the bin, except maybe the framers who I will allow to make a secondary large pile out back or similar. They are paid by a one time per heated sq ft price which I think is either $.50 pr $.60.
If I were remodeling I can see how roll-offs would be more necessary, since there are finished yards with landscaping around the building. This would be more expensive than the bin method for new const though.
When I was doing the apartment project - which I would consider light commercial - things were different - or at least at first. There was 1 dumpster for a project about 500 yards long. In some of the contracts it actually said something similar to "there is no need to put your trash in the bins, our labors will take care of it." I took over the project right as the sheetrock was being installed (which, BTW the sheetrocker's contract included scrap removal). The first time I went there I saw contract day labors sleeping in the buildings. The outside of the buildings was strewn with literally tons of trash. The insides were almost as bad. I got rid of the dumpster and got 7 bins (7 buildings) from my regular debris company who agreed to haul the trash for either $200 or $250 a load - 24' truck. I got some laborers I liked, treated them well, and asked the subs to use the bins, which they didn't seem to mind doing since they were right by the front doors. The place looked 100% better, and I truly believe that people do better work when the whole place doesn't look like crap.
Thanks for everyone's input and advice on this. Most of the work I do is on existing, occupied houses where I am sure to take out every bit of my trash. The exception to that has been an old house complete re-do and a new (old looking) house where there seemed to be several subs who liked to leave their trash behind.
I am not sure what arrangements the owner and gc had made with these folks.
Not to mention that a clean site is a safer site
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As the gc, we are responsible for the trash--all of it. We provide a container and we are the cleaners of last resort. That said, the subs usually pick up their own messes, though we have a hard time getting the electician to sweep up all the sawdust from his holes. This is one good reason for having a low paid unskilled worker on the job.
We just finished the frame and siding for a HO who is his own gc. The place is an horrendous mess. We spent time cleaning the areas we were working in for our own safety but there was no one place to put trash and it showed. It is going to snow soon and there will be wet rotting piles all over the place in the spring. We are at our own job now and everyone is breathing easy again.
I am the Asst. Super on a 3.75 million commercial job right now and we had a meeting with all the subs discussing this issue. The electricians and plumbers REFUSED to pick up after themselves. Fine. We have two laborers to sweep up. Job materials are one thing but I soon found spilled coffee and soda cups and fast food bags with ants crawling all over them. Cigarette packs, empty soda 12 packs, water bottles, donut boxes, sandwich wrappers, etc....
Another meeting was held and we were ignored once again so now there are no drinks or food allowed in any areas of the jobsite except for the parking lot. You can be a pig at home but not on our site.
Your requests were ignored!?!?
Who's working for who over there?
I'm a sub. And as long as it's a reasonable request, I do what the guy writing the check says to do. I could see the electricians and plumbers not cleaning up their work related debris if it wasn't part of the Construction Agreement or Contract. But picking up after one's own lunch or smoke habit is just common sense and common courtesy. Like I tell my own guys....... "I don't see your mother on this job do you? But if I did, I'd slap her for raising such a slob".View Image
Who's working for who is a good question. It is part of my responsibility to make sure the site is clean and safe to work. I really am a nice person and I didn't think I was asking for too much to have people throw their trash in the dumpsters or atleast in one of many piles that accumulate. The job encompasses 4.6 acres and has nine buildings (self-storage complex).By refusing food and drink inside the perimiter, they have resorted to throwing it outside their vehicles in the parking lot now. I told the GC we can park them out on the highway next and let the city fine them for littering. ;-)
My payment to them would be late.... Very late.
Anyone pulling that crap on my job would not be welcome back.
Just curious to know what level of workmanship and production your client is getting out of these littering slobs?
Commercial might be different from residential remo, but I saw a guy throw his lunch trash on the ground at a nice place once, and asked him to pick it up. He refused, so i walked over, picked it up amd as he was wearing a smug look, shoved it in his shirt front, and told him to get off the job, that we needed no pigs to slop there. It's not that hard to get a message across
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