I have a subpanel that I would like to enclose within a utility closet (storage for vaccuum, mop/bucket etc) –
what issues are there in regards to clearances, access, etc?
the panel will be on a side wall, not the back wall, if that is significant –
thanks – D
Replies
I'm sure others will come along with a more definate answer then myself.
Around here I would need 18" on either side clear space and a 3' dia clear space in front. The inspectors would grudingly approve it so long as there were not a closet rod in front of it.
I don't like them in closets myself because crap will get stored in front of it and make access hard.
No can do.
You need 30" of wallspace. the panel can be in any part of that space as long as you can open the door 90 degrees.
BUT you need 36" CLEAR "behind" the panel from the floor to 6.5' (IIRC).
You problem is that this is a STORAGE closet and thus you won't have the clear space.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
BUT you need 36" CLEAR "behind" the panel from the floor to 6.5'
I don't quite understand this - by 'behind' do you mean 'on the opposite side of the breakers'?
I'll see if I can post a picture after I get back from church -
thanks -
"there's enough for everyone"
Yes, that is confusing. Never found a way clear way to decribe it. CODECHECK used to have some good info, but they have removed it all.BASICALLY what it is saving that a person working on the panel needs a 30x36" space to stand in. So that he can back away from the panel.a shallow "closet" will be OK if the door was 36" clear opening although for a sup-panel the AHJ would probably accept a nominal 36" door.a "room" that is 36" deep would work even with a smaller door.The only listed restriction on location is a CLOTHES closet or other places where flambles are stored or a bathroom.a utility closet is OK if you can convince the AHJ that there won't be anything stored in the 30x36" footprint..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Here is one section of the code."(B) Clear Spaces Working space required by this section shall not be used for storage. When normally enclosed live parts are exposed for inspection or servicing, the working space, if in a passageway or general open space, shall be suitably guarded."and from the NEC handbook."Section 110.26(B), as well as the rest of 110.26, does not prohibit the placement of panelboards in corridors or passageways. For that reason, when the covers of corridor- mounted panelboards are removed for servicing or other work, access to the area around the panelboard should be guarded or limited to protect unqualified persons using the corridor."code"(D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitible material, such as in clothes closets.(E) Not Located in Bathrooms In dwelling units and guest rooms or guest suites of hotels and motels, overcurrent devices, other than supplementary overcurrent protection, shall not be located in bathrooms."and from the handbook."Examples of locations where combustible materials may be stored are linen closets, paper storage closets, and clothes closets.".
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks for the code bits
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so, if I understand correctly, the panel is to have three feet of dedicated space, that I'll call, 'in front', of it, where nothing ever resides, so a sevice tech has room to work on the panel? along with the 30" of width? is that type of space a requirement no matter where the panel is?
a utility closet is OK if you can convince the AHJ that there won't be anything stored in the 30x36" footprint.
ya - right - (I'll put a little <g> here) - as a practical matter, there are no inspections in our little backwater - but I have gained an appreciation that there is generally a reason behind the various requirements and am inclined to make a good faith effort to at least meet the spirit of the requirement -
I've got a picture, but I'm going to have to restart this dinosaur computer to get my image program to open - I'll post this and get back -
"there's enough for everyone"
"so, if I understand correctly, the panel is to have three feet of dedicated space, that I'll call, 'in front', of it, where nothing ever resides, so a sevice tech has room to work on the panel? along with the 30" of width? is that type of space a requirement no matter where the panel is?"exactlythere are more requirements for "electrical rooms" where you might have equipment behind you and things like access to the exits without going past the quipment.but you have got it. Room to work and if there is a problem to back up.Personally, unoffically, I would not be that concerned with a sub-panel as you can alway completely kill the power to it.but at the sametime you dont' normally want so much stuff stacked in front of it that someone can't easly reach a breaker to turn it off or reset it.And it kind of depends where it is at. If it is at the church or library where you don't know who are when "anyone" might need access it should be a little less "hidden" then in your hosue or the farm when you have more control.Now to back that up I am willing to make a bet. after I sell the brooklyn bridge I am willing to bet all of that money on the fact that in 99.99% of the homes there is a CLEAR AND FREE SPACE of 30x36" in front of the panel..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
here's a pict - the panel spends 98% of its time hidden behind the door to the immediate left of the picture that opens that way -
I would create almost a 'corner cupboard' space where that door could do double duty - 'open', as it normally is, would serve as the closet door - it is a 34" door, so it's not much of a stretch to get a 36" depth - I guarentee that there will be crap stored in there, tho - I'm totally in favor of keeping it to non-easily-combustable crap - View Image
"there's enough for everyone"
Yes, it was once common to place panels in closets. Those days are long gone.
The NEC specifically forbids placing a panel in a 'clothes closet.' As for other types of closets, well, "legal" and "smart" are not always the same thing.
As for 'working space,' you need room to easily - note I said EASILY - stand in front of the panel and work. That means a clear path to the panel, elbow room, a place to set the cover, and nothing to bump your head on.
The 'fine print' aside, closets are almost always terrible places for a panel. Placing it behind a door isn't much better. I fail to understand the mindset that sees panels as being something so awful to look at!
The panel is NOT something to be buried somewhere. Remember, when the time does come that you need to reach the panel, it is very likely that the lights will be out - that's why you're looking for the panel in the first place!
good points, all - tho maybe this might be debatable....
I fail to understand the mindset that sees panels as being something so awful to look at!
I can't rate them highly as I would fine art - this one looks a lot better with the cover off, as the electrician did a very clean and neat job of routing wires -
and my need for utility closet in this location just happens to include this box - the vaccuum and mops and such end up behind that door in that corner, and there's no good alternative - a carefully planned closet there will tidy things up and should improve access and safety over recent history - not to mention finishing the last bare stud wall in the house....
dunno -
thanks to Bill and you for your interest -
D
"there's enough for everyone"
Write "electrical room" on the plans. Make the room 30"x36".
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After inspection you may place whatever you wish in front of the panel. Anyone who needs to service the panel can move your mop and buckets.