10 years ago I built a 2 story gambrel roof barn. The top roof (4 in 12 pitch) has 4 skylights per side – two are fixed, two are openable for ventilation. The skylight installation was done by a ‘specialist.’ a guy whose only installs skylights. The carpenters I hired to help me raise the roof trusses also helped me shingle. There’s also a cor-a-vent running on the ridge.
It’s raining hard today here in Connecticut. I went up to my workshop on the second floor of the barn and I’ve got wet insulation in about 5 places. Some are below the fixed skylights, some in the middle of the roof, some at the edge of the building. So, since winter is coming, I’m not that enthused about getting up on top to reshingle/hunt for leaks in the next few weeks.
Could the leaks be coming though the ridge vent? Visually, I can’t see anything wrong with the lay of the shingles and there doesn’t seem to be any indication that water has been puddling at the top of the skylights, but its the logical place…
My plan (thought up in the 30 seconds it took me to get drenched running back to the house) is to pull the shingles above each of the skylights this spring, put shield & ice down, then reshingle and tar to push whatever water is puddling away from where I think its getting in.
I’m probably missing a lot of important points, so can you experts chime in and give me some guidance?
Art
Replies
2 possibilities---which you have already thought of
a)the coravent-----under certain rain,wind, air pressure situations it CAN and will leak. I have used what seems like miles of the stuff-- on older, drafty, less than tight houses--and it works fine----- but on more modern,"TIGHT" houses that also lack balanced soffit ventilation--the coravent can leak-------- so in the absence of really effective and balanced ventilation--another style vent might be more effective.
b) the skylights--- I have seen many,MANY of these--start leaking in the 8-10-12 year range. It would be very rare if 4 or 5 of them suddenly started leaking simultaneously-- but i would not be at all suprised if one out of the 8---no matter WHO installed them--suddenly started leaking at year 10--- it's the skylight-- not the installation, typically.
so-- considering that--- my bet is---that it is the ridgevent.
this spring- I did a large,very nice roof-- using a coravent style ridge vent-- which I like because they are so low profile.- a couple months later the customer called REALLY POed-as the roof was dripping right from the ridge.-- I tried everything- removed a cupola, removed the new ridge vent, installed another style ridge vent etc.
All along- I was ALSO pointing out-- that since I had replaced the roof the homeowners had ALSO had the house painted---and most of the soffit vents were now almost totally painted shut. The homeowners- primarily the wife--were REALLY upset-- convinced that I had ripped them off---some months later- the husband wrote me a nice note-and sent me a small check-----noting that he had finally gone around and cleaned out or replaced all the soffit vents---and that the problem then mysteriously resolved itself.
Best wishes,
stephen
Thanks for that story Stephen. Was the roof that experienced the ridge leak steep? Do you think it matters if the roof is steep or low slope?
4/12--5/12- about that. I haven't really ever found the coravent to be a problem on anything steeper than that---or on drafty houses which-even though not truly soffit vented have,in fact, enough gaps around,cornic, frieze blocks, fascia etc.- to act as intake vents.
stephen
you have a plan already what to do without knowing what is causing the leaks!
I usually get up there and start by studying and peeling stuff away until I find source of the leak, then fix that. If you redo the tops while the leaks are in the way the step flashing was done, you wasted a lot of time and money.
Some carpenters can do roofing and some haven't a clue.
It really seems strange to me that a skylight specialist put these in without handling the flashing work in a way that kept it from leaking. What brand skylights are they?
Can you post some photos?
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Art
What kind of skylights?
Greg in Connecticut
Leaky ones.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
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thanks to everyone for their thoughts, Some more info:* Velux skylights
* ridge runs east-west
* roof was shingled in December. Initially, there was a problem with the lay of the north side shingles - it appears it wasn't warm enough to get the seal on the underside of the shingle to work. However, it cleared up after a season
* GAF 35 year architectural shingles
* soffit vents running full length of eaves on north and south sideand yes, the best advice:I will definitely figure out the problem before I craft a solution. I was cold, tired, and wet when I posted last night....Art
see if you can get us good detail photos of the skylights and the roof areas above where leaks show up.
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Art ,
If that roof pitch faces South and you used a standard weight shingle , they could be toast in that time .
From your description the leals are in several places , not related to one another .
If the skylights were a name brand and flashed with the kits supplied , I'd be surprised if they are the problem . The workmanship in shingling them in perhaps , might be an issue .
Pictures would let us be more helpful .
Walter
Yeah, I'd first suspect the skylights (because, in my experience, skylights always leak sooner or later), but I'll observe that on our house we were getting leaks in several places, leaking through the gaps in the 4x8 sheathing. I got up on the roof on a dry day and looked real close and was able to see cracks every 4 feet, right over the sheathing joints. This was on the north side.I figured out the damage (to old, cheap shingles) probably occurred on a sunny winter day when snow was laying on the north side and the sun was beating on the south side. This heats up the attic (relatively speaking) and causes the rafters to expand, but the sheathing stays cold, so gaps develop. With old, cold-hardened shingles there was too much stress for them to stand, so they developed the cracks.We have the ShingleVent brand of ridge vent on a 4/12 and have never had problems with it (including now, when it's been raining 40 days and 40 nights and the animals are lining up outside). But we don't get nor'easters.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
"I'd first suspect the skylights (because, in my experience, skylights always leak sooner or later),"You need to start hanging out with a better class of experiences. Properly installed, skylight and flashing will outlast the shingles
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Well, of course that's a bit of hyperbole, but when a roof with skylights leaks, it always seems to be around the skylights.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
well, a skylight is a hole in the roof, but a lot of leaks only happen to show up there, but originate further up the roof. Skylights get blame for a lot of carelessness in other things
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"Properly installed, skylight and flashing will outlast the shingles"I agree as long as it is a good quality skylight such as Velux.I wonder what the pitch is on that upper gambrel. If it's 3/12 or less it should have been ice guard entirely, and the exposure dropped an inch. Low slope roofs wear out much quicker, and are very prone to leaks , especially in heavy rain.John Svenson, builder, remodeler, NE Ohio
The OP said in his first post that it was a 4/12
Piffen--- these skylights were installed 10 years ago. IF the leaks are with the skylights--- I would imagine an installation mistake would have showed up years ago. for the leaks to occur suddenly-- 10 years after the installation-well that fits exactly into the 8-10-12 year time frame I have often noticed skylights start leaking.
stephen
That is very true, except that the OP reports leaks all over the roof. i'm not about top focus on telling him how to fix any specific thing without knowing what is causing the leak. I gotta have a few answers from him first to have a clue.
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I agree-- I think in my first post I mentioned I could easily see one of the 8 skylights going bad at year 10---- but his problems seem more wide spread and the ridge vent seemed a liklier concern-----
but really- he is there and we are here-- and diagnosing a roof leak over the internet seems maybe pointless?
stephen
The leaks could be coming in the roof vent if the rain is being blown directly into them. Of course you have to get on or very close to the roof to see if there are any other visible problems.
Does the roof vent do anything useful? They do nothing without adequate intake air. If the roof is insulated without air channels I'd remove it. In fact, I would just reshingle the whole thing myself.
Edited 10/25/2009 9:26 am ET by Dam_inspector
One thing that's not clear: Is there any sort of accessible "attic" in this thing? If so, have you crawled up there to see if you can localize the leaks any better?
the underside of the roof is accessible - if I want to take down the insulation and soffit vent channels (the second floor of the barn is the workshop which opens to the gambrel roof trusses).I'll take some pics and post in a few hoursArt
here are some pics of the water damage that showed up last night (first time leaks)
Doesn't look like you used underlayment against the sides of the skylights !
How large an overhang on the upper rake ??
please explain the underlayment. The skylight boxes were framed in between the trusses. The trusses were covered with 3/4 CDX, felted, after which the skylights were laid on top, flashed, etc.There is no overhang on the upper roof. It breaks at the edge to the vertical portions, and at the bottom of the vertical it breaks again onto a low pitch See the attached photoArt
Art ,
The skylight frame should be wrapped with underlayment prior to shingling and flashings .
Looks like very little overhang on the sides or " rakes " so water could be blown in more easily there .
Got any from up on the roof?
I'm also seeing a lack of wrap of ice and water or underlayment
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The other one looks like could be blown in the ridge vent system
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The first one looks like it's coming through the ridge vent, though it could possibly be somehow blowing in the gable end.Question: Is there any eve overhang on the gable ends?Second question: How is the end of the ridge vent terminate? Does it carry all the way to the bitter end of the ridge, or does it stop short? (Could be that the first leak is where the ridge vent ISN'T, but there's still a slot in the ridge.)The second picture looks a little wide of the skylight to be due to that, especially that little spot in the second bay over. With the insulation and vent channels, though, it's hard to say how far up the leak originated.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
there's about 2 ft overhang on each gable end.the ridge vent terminates about 3 feet from each gable endIf I remember correctly, ice shield was put along the eaves, but not over the roof break from the 4/12 to the vertical. I believe I just wrapped felt over joint.I agree with you about the difficulty in finding the leaks (as you can see I pulled down some batting looking for the source)Art
That photo looks like no more than 10-16" of overhang.underlayment ( tarpaper) needs to be turn up the sides f the skylight before working the shingles and the step flashing in as you shingle.Since the step flashing shows from underneathe, it is clear that there is no tarpaper or ice and water shield there. So when you have high wind or ice backups, water finds a way in.http://www.domwebx.com/inet/techdocs.nsf/All+Tech+Docs+-+web+display+-+new/E6C6F4859118473F85256BB10046F1D1/$FILE/450953-1007-VS-in.pdf?openelement pages 14-15
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Edited 10/25/2009 8:09 pm ET by Piffin
Roof leaks can be tricky to locate. The roof leaks and drips down and follows insulation and whatever to another spot ... then shows up somewhere else.
I agree w/ Dan H's observation that you can see the step flashing and I don't think you should. Quik call to Velux or read the install instructions and it will reveal that issue. I still say it's likely the side flashing on the skylight not being right. The rain goes in and works horizontally a bit and under the felt, down and hits the insulation and drains to the center of the insulation and then shows up.
The first photo looks like it has to be a ridge vent issue. The 2nd photo looks MAYBE like a side skylight flashing issue (i.e. the felt, flashing and shingling along the side of the skylight wasn't done quite right, maybe). The side flashing must be installed w/ the shingles, not one or the other. 'Course you knew that.