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O.K. lets come back from la la land people. I don’t know about you guys, but, I’ve always thought wood and especially plastic composites expand and contract during those funny little things called rainstorms and droughts. Maybe I should consider moving to New England where the weather doesn’t change and my deck boards won’t move for the next 100 years. Maybe if I can get Tom Silva to rub some his magic dust on my projects I won’t have to fasten my deck boards with those screw thingy’s, or a simple pledge from 3M to guarentee my projects , will work also… WASSUUPPP
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I noticed that Tom Silva of TOH fame used a 3M polyurethane marine-grade adhesive -- about $7 to $10 per 10 oz. tube -- to fasten ipe planks on his brother's new deck. Tom shot in a few SS nails for clamping.
Ipe is stable, so maybe this would work with Trex? Glue would be wicked fast, exclude water or squeaks, and probably come out cheaper. Would any of you try glue alone, with these or other materials short of cheap pt (before I do)? Is this over the edge?
*Hi Andrew, I also saw that same episode, but can't recall what or if anything was said about the longevity of using the product and how it would perform in different climatological areas, and how it would work with wood that isn't as stable as Ipe, or the synthetic Trex you mentionrd. I'm all for trying new products; however, I think I'd want to do a little one on one with the manufacturer first. By the way Andrew, haven't seen you frequent the board much lately, I guess you must be busy?
*I'd do a test for a year or so before tryin' something like that for hire.
*Hey I used some of this when my uncle and I repaired a Teak hatch three years ago. I remade a set of rails that supported a hatch that was two peices that slid in tracks. The hatch covers were poly carbonate with a Teak frame. The frames were sealed with the adhesive and I used it sparingly because the stuff is wicked to clean out of the grain, (read sand out and refinish) and I only used oils for finnishing the wood. No leaks yetAs for the rails these were glued ann screwed with a layer of the adhesive between the Teak and the fiberglass. ROCK SOLID. No movement at all.The old rail were glued using a marine adhesive and I had to put a large piect of ply on the fiberglass and block under a flat bar. If I would have pried straight down I think I would be repairing the Glass. As I priyd I had to use a scalpel To slice the adhesive. Next came hours of scraping to clean the remains off the glass.Hope this ads some insight. As you know Teak is oily and nearly impossible to glue effectively.AE
*I saw the 3M 5200 marine stuff at Home Depot tonight, as a matter of fact. $9.50 for 10 oz. We have a store that just went 24/7, oh joy. At least I'll be able to get started early tomorrow ... I ran out of those itty-bitty metal hanger nails and stupid plywood clips.Yes, I'm busy ... just not fast enough! One project for money, one for love, and one for charity, going all at once. Fortunately God sent me a decent laborer out of the blue.As for the charity: I am building (oh so slowly) a rear stoop and stair for the older guy on the block whose house is disintegrating; last fall I use PL 400 and pneumatic SS nails to tack down the KD pt deck boards (kodiak, the brown stuff, I recommend it). They are still rock solid, even though unsealed. Did the same for some stairs with a for-pay client last summer using the cheaper OSI subfloor adhesive; this appears to be wearing almost as well.The marine stuff costs double the PL. Its main thrust seems to be waterproof-ness. I'm worried about liability -- someone tripping on a loose board -- but am fascinated by the idea of a seamless and fast deck. Heck, imagine a deck built with almost no metal at all.
*Even if this stuff does work, it seems worse to install than just screwing a deck if I've got to worry about keeping the adnesive off of every visible area and about clamping the boards until the adhesive drys.
*This sounds like a candidate for my wacky plan to resurface metal security doors with T&G cedar wall panelling. 3M 5200 marine you say? What's the drying time? Is it purely a wood adhesive, or does it also bond to metals and other materials?
*somewhat slow to cure -- visit the link I gave.i was thinking, you could drive short fat nails through plywood into the joists betwen planks to maintain spacing and hold down the plank until the glue dried ... or maybe clamp with long rips of plywood so that the deck would be flat even if the joists weren't ... for a no-hole installation ... just interesting to think aboutPL400 is already pretty strong. Maybe this is better, or at least more weather resistant?
*I've never used Trex, but recall people remarking on it's amazing ability to move in hot weather...possibly it's high coefficient of expansion may weaken glue bonds over a few freeze/fry cycles?Intriguing idea, but I'm with jb...I've got a few "ideas" that have been cobbled together over the years and are out in the woods/field/wherever undergoing semi long-term, pseudo-scientific testing.
*I couldn't agree more. This was exactly my first thought when I read the thread but you beat me to it Ryan. To me, gluing and clamping, cleaning up the mess, no brainer--keep on screwin'.MDPS, I don't like the idea of using nails for clamps either. If you pull them, pain in the butt, and leaves a hole for water to sit in and rot the board. Leave the nail in, it'll creep out and someone will trip or stub their toe, or whatev
*I was thinking of toenailing from below, or toescrewing. Not too hard with two people.I'll do as Mongo suggests and try it out on a sample in the bushes somewhere. The whole idea may rely on the stability of ipé.
*Scott, Not such a crazy idea! I have made many sauna doors out of insulated metal door blanks and covered them with cedar paneling glued to the metal skin with PL premium (available anywhere) Never had one come loose yet!!
*O.K. lets come back from la la land people. I don't know about you guys, but, I've always thought wood and especially plastic composites expand and contract during those funny little things called rainstorms and droughts. Maybe I should consider moving to New England where the weather doesn't change and my deck boards won't move for the next 100 years. Maybe if I can get Tom Silva to rub some his magic dust on my projects I won't have to fasten my deck boards with those screw thingy's, or a simple pledge from 3M to guarentee my projects , will work also... WASSUUPPP
*Max , living la vida loco right here in New England..but we stil get 100 % humidity swings, and 100 deg. temp swings.....i don't see the wood fibers that the material is glued to being strong enoug for decking, compared to the leverage of a 5/4 x 6 trex or ipe' bonded to a 1.5 inch joist... even if the bond doesn't fail, the fibers will....it needs the mechanical fastener to acheive the desired strength...so, i'm with you... still screwin around...but that is just my gut feelingKermit
*I believe what Tom was doing is adapting marine constuction techniques to home building. Seem to recall boat builders doing this with teak decks. Weak link is wood fibers that are bonded to urethane, when they rot urethane is then bonded to a little fungal mycelium, not a board. That is why it works with teak it doesn't rot readily.joe d
*... "if you don't like the weather, wait fifteen minutes" ...I've lived in New England, the best description for the weather is CHANGEABLE. But I don't know, I've pulled apart well-glued joints only to see the wood destroyed in the process ... these adhesives are impressive, and decking is not subject to a whole lot of force anyway. The glues beat nails, no?Gee, I haven't even brought up my idea of making the entire deck without any metal (dowels, notches, urethanes, etc.).
*Hey G. LaLonde!Just the man (woman?) I've been waiting to see pop up on the FH board. I tried a number of times to dig up some thoughts on "veneering" an old style wooden door surface on a plain insulated metal security door, but their haven't been any takers. Any tips?
*Hey, no hijacking my thread!
*Sorry A.D. Tried G.L.'s email but it bounced.There just moved your thread to the top of the list again!
*Andrew,That's just what people say about the weather here in Indiana. I've often wondered how many other places feel the same way about i theirweather.Also, regarding your complaint about hijacking the thread. I would be interested in reading your case thati yourthread should be any different from anyone else's thread!If you use glue only, should you vent?Rich Beckman
*Yeah! What about the off gassing? Good point, Rich.
*Personally, I wouldn't use thinset.