I’m going to dismantle an aging PT Deck. I want to plane the boards (mostly 2X6’s) down to ~1″ thick to build a privacy fence.
How does PT perform in a planer. I know it is a pain to saw when wet, and I’m wondering if it is worth the effort to plane it. I plan to pressure wash and dry the lumber before trying to plane it.
I want to end up with a good surface for painting.
For safety reasons, this will obviously be an outdoor operation with dust collector connected to planer.
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Replies
Maybe it's just me, but I can imagine that all that work, chemical dust and wear-and-tear on the planer could possibly be worth a pile of warped, cracked nail-hole riddled PT lumber for a fence. Maybe you could use the 2x's for rails.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Totally agree. Have grandkids around and would not even consider planing old PT lumber due to the chips. The kids WOULD find some chips left somewhere to eat or play with.
fred: why not use them as is for the fence?
Done it before. I needed 3/4" material and had 5/4 x 6 deck boards. They were new, though. I brought 'em to a friend's shop, we emptied the dust collector completely and ran them through the planer, emptied the collector again into plastic bags, and I brought the chips out in the woods and spread them around over about a couple hundred square feet of area. 3, 45-gallon bags of chips. I wouldn't do it again, but I didn't have a choice, so did the best I could. If you don't have a safe place to put the shavings, don't bother.
Well...
This lumber will either be discarded or planed and reused. I'd like to avoid the hassle and expense ($$$ and environmental) of landfilling it.
I can't use much of it as is... Warped, crowned, surface-checked, etc... Some significant stains on it from long-term exposure to pine straw litter.
The nail holes won't be a big issue. I can putty those before painting. I will be pursuing perfection on the paintjob anyway, so the putty and knife will already be involved. This will be my deck and my fence and my time, so quality results are more important to me than time.
I feel like this stuff could be better than new PT lumber after some planing. It's been acclimating for >10 years now. All warping and crowning is probably stabilized by now. The moisture content will probably also be lower than new PT, therefore, better paint adhesion...
Any further opinions???
Given the age of the lumber, the preservative is likely CCA (chromated copper arsenate).
Both the chromium and the arsenic are very bad news. The first, a very potent human carcinogen. The second, very toxic in both small and large amounts (it accumulates in the body).
The dust collector on the planer will only catch the larger stuff. The fine dust will get by the collector filter (whether cloth, paper or gore-tex), and disperse widely in the air. While you're doing the planing, you're going to be breathing in the dust. The fine particles will get down deep into the lungs, and aren't cleared out to any degree. So you're going to take a toxic hit. Might not be a big deal to you. But, eventually the dust will settle and contaminate the ground.
So, I think you'd be better off using the lumber some other way--so you don't have to plane it. It's a great idea to re-use it, keeping it out of a landfill. Although a modern landfill is designed to keep the stuff in it from leaching out, and contaminating groundwater. That wouldn't really be an issue with old PT lumber, though.
IF you do plane it, I'd make sure that you do it in an area away from any vegetable garden or any area where kids play or where pets may be kept. Or that might ever be a food garden or kids play area. The metals (especially if they're tied up in wood fibers) are likely to stay on or near the surface of the ground for many years.
I was wondering, if the reason you don't want to landfill the lumbe is the "hassle and expense", what are you planning to do with the shavings and planer dust?
If you do plane the stuff, it's not going to be Love Canal, but what about the guy and his family who buy the property where you've done this? It might be a big deal to them.
Cliff
CAP
I'm reading this with some interest, what your saying sounds reasonable but, wouldnt the PT wood break down over the 10 year period, at least to some degree?
Just wondering if 10 year old PT has the same amount of "stuff" in it that new wood does?
Doug
Doug,
If you mean break down in a landfill, probably not. Modern landfills are so dry, or ought to be, that 10 year old newspapers have been dug out of 'em, and they're in readable condition.
If you mean break down if re-used, not really, but the CCA will leach out over time. New PT lumber has a lot more treatment in it than stuff that's weathered. By weathered, I mean exposed to water; the treatment can wash out to some degree. The toxic chemicals don't break down (well, the arsenic doesn't break down; the chromate changes to a different form, eventually. The chromate breakdown product is a lot less toxic than the chromate, but is still mildly toxic).
The whole reason that chemicals are used as preservatives is because they're very toxic and stay toxic for a long time. The best wood preservative was pentacholorphenol, penta. Very toxic, extremely long lasting. Got banned for those reasons. CCA was next. A lot like pesticides. The best working ones are so nasty, they get banned. Not that this is a bad thing, except maybe if you want to kill fire ants and the only effective pesticide is banned...
You never get something for nothing, whether you want to use a chemical to kill fungus or bugs, or treat a disease. Nope, no free ride...
My FIL's doc prescribed some med for his arthritis pain, which rasied his blood pressure. The docs response--up his BP meds. He passed on that, went back to Tylenol for the joint pain.
Cliff
Could you resaw it on a band saw (less dust) and work with ~3/4"?
Why not put the side that was down toward the best viewing side (let the neighbors see the old top surface). I do not think I would plane it. Here in WNC what we get is not incised so that would not be a problem, It is easy to tell if it has. The other reasons stated should be enough to deter you though.
Besides what all has been said, I'd avoid it just for the knots alone. SYP knots are a PITA when they explode inside a cutterhead. Treated or not (no pun) I avoid planing knots at all cost, I am a real stickler for choosing what goes into my tools.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
I wouldn't even consider planing it. I mentioned on this forum a long time ago that the incizing teeth used to prep lumber for PT occasionally break off and remain imbedded in the wood.
A friend of mine did serious damage to his planer from such an object.
I don't need to give you the health downside....plenty have weighed in on that.
What I might suggest is leaving the planks intact and using them for fence rails or border planks for raised garden or flower beds. The chemical that's left in the wood is not likely to leach out after this much time and the material can be used safely around plants....even edible ones.
M'gawd, the stuff has arsenic in it, and cadmium!
1. Is there any amount of money you could possibly save that would justify that risk to everyone's health around you?
2. Saving the environment beans taking a concentrated bundle and scattering the results everywhere - more environmental damage than you can imagine.
Please - bury the stuff.
Quality repairs for your home.
Aaron the Handyman
Vancouver, Canada
Fredneck, are you a redneck? :o)
What notchman said about the embedded metal teeth left.
Then think the cost and time of replacement blades.
Edited 11/17/2004 9:24 am ET by rez
Had rotted exterior window trim to replace, 1 1/4" thick by over 9" wide and about 10' long, and client wanted something to last, so I planed down a 2x10x10 pt board. I did buy kiln dried material so dampness wasn't a problem. Came out fine. Health concerns and disposal of waste is another matter.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
Okay... Y'all have talked me out of it. Didn't know about the embedded metal issue. That would be very ugly. Resawing on a bandsaw wouldn't be worthwhile, because significant sanding (major dust issue) would be required to get to the surface that I would want to paint.
I'll trash the deck (and the existing fence) and rebuild both with new stuff. I want the fence to look good (on both sides) as a favor to my neighbor. She is preparing to sell, and I'll bet her buyer isn't going to like my fence in its current state. I don't even like my fence in its current state.
Thanks for the input.