I am considering finally getting a TS. the ones I am considering are The Grizzly G0444, the Jet 708100 , the Delta 36-979, and the Rigid 3650. Portability is not really a concern because it wont be going anywhere except the garage. I have several upcoming projects and have a few months to find something in. I realize that these saws are probably more then i will need but for around 500 i would like to buy the best i could get. I took a look at some of the portable ones but they didnt seem very sturdy to me for about the same money. Any thoughts you guys would be willing to share would be much appreciated.
Frank
We were the winners, cause we didnt know we could fail….
Waylon…
“I was born in the darkest ignorance, and my spiritual master opened my eyes with the torch of knowledge. I offer my respectful obeisances unto him.” Aciores autem morsus sunt intermissae quam retentae. (Freedom suppressed and then regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered.) Cicero, De Officiis ” once i had woman with high hand, and i let her treat me mighty low man, she made a lover of my best freind, and now he treats me like a hasbeen…”
Replies
You don't say what you are looking for in a table saw? Longevity? Dependability? Serviceability? Compacity? Those are a few basic standards for any tool imo.
Some companies aren't making their own saws or components so if you have a problem down the road you can't get parts very easily or at all. I just read the thread about Craftsman tools. They have that approach. They put their name on tools but down the road it might be very difficult to find parts.
Are you going to keep this saw for a long time? Are you going to build up your carpentry skills so this saw won't work for you in the future?
I know that delta has a reputation for having replacement parts for a long time. At least for the saws I've used.
You need to figure out what you are going to do with it now and in the future.
Just DIY projects? Small woodworking or are you going to tackle bigger project eventually?
The saws you listed are kind of middle of the road. You can move them to a job site but they aren't real portable. But they aren't a dedicated shop saw either that is designed to handle it all.
Sorry i should have given more info. I am looking for something i can grow into, that leaves a lot of room. no this saw wont be going anywhere. yes i will keep this as long as i can. I like the feel of these better then the more portable ones, and the reviews i have been reading seem to point to these as the best for dependability,accuracy and price. I started looking at the Craftsman, then the Bosch, then found out some things i didnt like about those, plasticy parts ect... the Grizzly seems to be the one they love, everyone gave it 5 stars , i liked the Delta too...http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G0444-Table-Single-Phase-110V/dp/B0000E3HNN/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1207489706&sr=8-2http://www.amazon.com/Delta-36-979-Left-Tilt-Horsepower-Contractor/dp/B000H0RNL2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1207489751&sr=8-2the lower reviews on the Delta are about selling by amazon and not the saw itself...http://www.amazon.com/JET-708100-Horsepower-Contractor-Align-Rite/dp/B000BHNAJK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1207489815&sr=1-3I will be doing a little bit of everything with this saw but working more and more into shelveing and cab work.thanks for your thoughts.FrankWe were the winners, cause we didnt know we could fail....
Waylon...
"I was born in the darkest ignorance, and my spiritual master opened my eyes with the torch of knowledge. I offer my respectful obeisances unto him."
Aciores autem morsus sunt intermissae quam retentae.
(Freedom suppressed and then regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered.)
Cicero, De Officiis
" once i had woman with high hand, and i let her treat me mighty low man, she made a lover of my best freind, and now he treats me like a hasbeen..."
When I get around to equiping my new shop (sometime after the new house is well underway) I'll probably look for a really nice used one on http://www.craigslist.com or http://www.ebay.com.
Some kinds of power tools, like table saws, get used by a home owner for one pet project and then they sit around for years. You've probably seen some in your neighbor's garages. So you can count on finding a good deal, just by checking classified ads.
I'd watch for a big old 1960s Craftsman cast iron 10" saw at a garage sale or on craigslist. Or any othe brand big 'ol cast iron saw.
Have gotten more that one of those for $40 including 1 HP motor, with a $40 Freud blade included once. Often on craigslist for $100 or less. You will need likely need to replace the bearings and align everything, but then will have a saw that can cut a paper thin shaving off a board.
Cheapest I ever got one was for $3, just the table, carriage and one extention.
Anything new outa the box ya gotta do an alignment anyway.
I started out with a Craftsman. It was ok, but hard to adjust. I never got it perfect. The blade could not get 100% parallel to the slot. Otherwise, it was a good saw. I wouldn't recommend it for cabinet work or furniture.
I built a few nice furniture items with my Ryobi 3000 system. It was a bit tricky to make the many adjustments on the saw and it could be knocked out of adjustment with rough handling. Since I am the only one who uses it, I do not have that problem. I have only had to readjust after moving to a new home twice since I bought it in 94. I still use it in my garage for rough cuts and general outside work. The one big disadvantage of the saw is that it is noisy. I always wear ear protection, so that is not an issue for me. The neighbors have never complained, but I know they are aware of when I am cutting.
I also have the DeWalt portable saw, which I bought for the jobsite. It is a real workhorse and the fence is great. It would be a bit small for furniture since it would not be practical to build a crosscut sled for larger panels. I keep it next to my main saw because I can set it up for dado work and leave it.
My TS3650 is working beyond all expectations. I had it assembled and perfectly adjusted in about four hours. The fence is outstanding. I built a large crosscut sled that cuts dead-on square. I also paid the exorbitant $40 for the magnetic feather attachment. It was well worth the gouging price. I bought the saw during a 15% tool discount at HD. I can't imagine another saw out there that can compare in quality for the price. The lift system makes it easy to roll the saw around my shop. Also, it is very quiet.
I was going to buy a remote-controller for my vacuum system, but did not want to pay the $69 at Woodcraft. Instead, I am going to try to modify an old garage door opener I saved when I replaced my doors and openers.
I don't have room for a cabinet saw, so the 3650 was the perfect tool.
I've used a few of these saws. The Grizzly was definitely a cheap saw. Perhaps they have gotten better the last 10 years, but the one I used was pretty rough.
I have owned a Jet contractor saw. For the money, I think it's a pretty good saw. Sort of underpowered, but that's probably going to be the case for all the saws in your price range.
Delta has a good reputation, but I think their foreign made saws aren't any better than the Jet. Not sure if their contractor saw is made in the US, but I doubt it.
The fact that Home Depot is pushing Rigid says a lot. I haven't seen a Rigid tool I'd buy except for their pipe wrenches. But who knows, their table saw might surprise me.
A 500 dollar table saw seems like a big investment, but to get a real table saw, you need to spend at least 3 times that. You might also consider some of the portable table saws. I have been impressed with the quality of some of them.
I have a job site saw and a cabinet saw along with a lot of other tools, whatever you do get the best of what you can afford, kind of like getting married, when you think you are ready step back and think about it again before plungeing in you will not be sorry.
I agree with Hudson Valley. Get a used cabinet saw. You should be able to buy a used Unisaw or Powermatic 66 for around $700. I've purchased two Unisaws (both 1970's vintage) each for that price. The only reason to get something smaller is if it needs to be moved to a job-site. You might also want to post your question over at Knots.
Chip
I didn't say so but that is my feeling on table saws. If you are going to grow into the saw, keep it for a long time, and keep it in the shop I'd buy a cabinet saw.
Cabinet saws have the motor partially inside the cabinet. The motor on a contractor saws is off the back.
A used cabinet saw will do everything you ask of it. Anything below that will have compromises.
Old saws have bearing and belts in them that you will always be able to get. So if you buy a used one and something is worn out you can easily get replacement parts.
These newer saws have parts on them that are proprietary in that if it breaks and they don't supply it any more you are out of luck. You won't be able to grow into it because it will be obsolete in a few years.
Also, with a cabinet saw you can put on a nice outfeed table because the motor isn't back there. along with a good fence the outfeed table is one of the best things you can do for the saw.
Forget what those websites say about saws. Get a used delta or powermatic cabinet saw and you won't regret it. Period. These saws will do anything you want and not blink an eye. And that's what you want so you can concentrate on your work.
thanks for the advice, i really appreciate it. I will probably get a used saw, defiantly looking in that direction. Like I said i dont need it today so i have time to really look around and get the best deal new or used. thanks so much to everyone. feel free to send any more advice my way. thanksFrankWe were the winners, cause we didnt know we could fail....
Waylon...
"I was born in the darkest ignorance, and my spiritual master opened my eyes with the torch of knowledge. I offer my respectful obeisances unto him."
Aciores autem morsus sunt intermissae quam retentae.
(Freedom suppressed and then regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered.)
Cicero, De Officiis
" once i had woman with high hand, and i let her treat me mighty low man, she made a lover of my best freind, and now he treats me like a hasbeen..."
You probably saw this...;)
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/tls/633439580.html
Yeah i have been looking at both CL and Ebay, i saw another one i thought was interesting but wasnt too sure about it, the guy didnt seem to know very much about it...
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/tls/629937725.html
will keep looking... what about things to look for in a used saw, Flat table, dings dents, smoothness of operation,square blade... ect??
We were the winners, cause we didnt know we could fail....
Waylon...
"I was born in the darkest ignorance, and my spiritual master opened my eyes with the torch of knowledge. I offer my respectful obeisances unto him."
Aciores autem morsus sunt intermissae quam retentae.
(Freedom suppressed and then regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered.)
Cicero, De Officiis
" once i had woman with high hand, and i let her treat me mighty low man, she made a lover of my best freind, and now he treats me like a hasbeen..."
You might go by someplace like http://www.redmond-machinery.com/ and check out new saws and talk to the guys in the back. They are a source for older Powermatic and I believe Delta parts.
One thing to look for is where the blade goes on the shaft. Some old saw have been damaged in that area because someone didn't tighten the blade enough. When the blade spins on the shaft it damages it. You want a good fit when you put a blade on or else when the blade turns it will have a hop in it. Half the teeth will be doing all the work not to mention the vibration.
That cheap #### grizzly wasn't worth 450 new, and in that shape 100 would be closer to fair.
wyowolf.
I had a Delta and it was such a disaster plus working with Delta became such a burden that in the end when the factory rep couldn't get it fixed I actaully gave it away! I tried to sell it but everybody who came out and checked it out turned it down.. The guy I gave it to was a machinist and he thought he could make a new base which would hold everything in alignment.
I had similar issues with a Delta planer I bought. So I looked at Grizzly. what a differance! http://www.grizzly.com
I have since bought 11 major shop pieces from Grizzly. They all come out of the box and work without adjustment or repair.. I have run over 40,000 bd.ft. of hardwood over them and in 7 years I broke one $5.00 fan belt which my local NAPA parts store had in stock.
Nothing broke no "adjustments" repairs or rebuilding..
Oh! One crate had obviously been used to drop stuff on and when the equipment arrived all busted up, one phone call and they had everysingle piece I needed at my door the next day.. No questions asked, no forms to fill out or numbers to look up or any of that nonsense that Delta had been putting me through and they even said if this didn't fix it to simply send it back and they would replace it..
It took me 45 minutes to assemble and hook up to power and since then it's been flawless..
I don't know what your budget is, but I would definitely consider getting a Sawstop. They have a contractor version coming out in a couple of months.
I never thought I'd cut myself on a tablesaw, but in fact I nicked my thumb a couple of weeks ago. Nothin major. It whacked my thumb back at me and I sure didn't want to look. When I did all I had was a trimmed thumbnail and a cut that required a bandaid. But I was in a state of shock. Man it was close.
Anyway, take a look at the Sawstop. There's a video review of it on the Fine Homebuilding site.
danielfoster,
You should also mention the cost of tripping the saw stop.
I really liked the concept untill I realized just how much that accidental trip would cost.
Pretty hard to place a value on a hand or fingers, but considering what an accidental trip would cost and then looking at the real numbers.. I'll wait untill there is a affordable less expensive version coming out..
Yes table saws scare me greatly! But prudence still works. Thousands of carpenters and wood workers retain their fingers undamaged
Yes, Frenchy, I agree that nothing beats being careful. I've been using tablesaws for 35 years and still believe that. Yet, nevertheless, the other day I nicked myself and it could have been much worse.I think the cost of anew cartridge for the Sawstop is around 80 bucks and a new Forrest blade is around $100. That's nothing compared to the cost of a lost finger.
danielifoster,
Those numbers are dramatically less than what my buddy paid for a cartridge.
But if they tripped on flesh he wouldn't have cared.. his were false alarms.. In a month his shop spent over $900 on cartridges so his is now parked with a spent cartridge.. none of his guys has ever lost a finger before or since..
Frenchy you are full of B.S. Tell us the name of your buddys shop! $900 dollars in a month! On accidental trips!!! What is he cutting, metal? My partner has one and if there is a false trip it is covered under WARRANTY! He has owned it just over a year and nothing has happened yet. He builds cabinets and the both of us use for everything we build.We cut everything under the sun, ply, mdf, wet western red cedar, wet pressure treated lumber, seriously , who would pay that much in a month without sending the saw back?
Westcoast
He thought so too, Figured the added premium was worth it to save a finger or hand. Next time I'm by his shop I'll get the full details, serial numbers, whatever.. Chances are metal wouldn't have tripped it since it doesn't "sense" added resistance only decreased resistance..
Last I saw the saw it was used as an assembly table and since I was so shocked considering the premium he paid for it I asked him why and that's what he told me..
As for sending things back once you've used them, well good luck! I wish I could have done that with the Delta I bought originally..
I saw that too, i like the idea of the Riving Knife, that seems to work pretty well from what i have read, will definatly look into that... i am more fearful of the kickback then putting my hand over there, i use sticks all the time... i saw a neat idea for a knife/ blade gaurd that someone made... nothing too fancy but i would keep stuff from acidentally coming down and hitting the saw and flying...
Frank
We were the winners, cause we didnt know we could fail....
Waylon...
"I was born in the darkest ignorance, and my spiritual master opened my eyes with the torch of knowledge. I offer my respectful obeisances unto him."
Aciores autem morsus sunt intermissae quam retentae.
(Freedom suppressed and then regained bites with keener fangs than freedom never endangered.)
Cicero, De Officiis
" once i had woman with high hand, and i let her treat me mighty low man, she made a lover of my best freind, and now he treats me like a hasbeen..."