Hey folks,
Just got a table saw (the ryobi cheapo that was reviewed in fhb this fall)
I am trimming out an old house with really wavy floors and ceilings, so in some places the window/door header trim needs to taper to match that.
Can I cut 4″ trim board 3.5″ at one end and 2.75″ on the other with the table saw, and if so, how do you figure it with the miter angles? Or am I back to having to rip it with a circular saw–does anyone have a method for being able to clamp a straight edge to a piece that narrow?
Thanks!
Replies
You could buy or make a taper jig for your table saw. Don't try to free hand it.
There's no way to help you with the angle with the information you've provided. I can taper a 36" piece of trim from 3 1/2" down to 2 3/4" and I can also taper a 20' piece of stock from 3 1/2" down to 2 3/4".... but the angle ain't gonna be the same. Know what I mean?
If you've only got a few tapers to rip and they're all slightly different, you will probably be better off with a straight edge and a circular saw and avoid all the set up time and hassle. When I have to rip a really narrow board, I don't try to clamp it. I shoot it to a work table with a couple 18 guage pins, make the rip, and then pull the pins through the other side of the board with a pair of nippers. I also use same dimension stock on both sides of the piece to be cut to support the saw.
Or you can make a shoot board.
I don't think I'd bother setting up a taper jig unless I was making a bunch of repetitive cuts like table legs or ballusters or something.
I agree. I would never suggest that someone freehand a rip on a table saw.
But that's never stopped me from doing it myself. I don't do it often, but sometimes its just easier that way.
famous last words, huh?
Not a good idea, but I do it all the time. Along with my LN block plane the results are really good.
A bitch with the blade guard on, no?A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
what's a blade guard??
:)
Good question.
I think, the tablesaw blade guard was designed to protect the tablesaw manufactures from potential lawsuits.
And is working.
YCF D.
Hey, Dino- how are you?
I've been meaning to get over to see you, but I've just been soo busy. All the rain we've had didn't help, either.
I guess I really shouldn't complain. Its better than sitting home and twiddling my thumbs.
stop over any time.
Dark one sugar.
Happy holidays.
YCF D
Gents.
STOP this discussion about free handing on the table saw. When you get too comfortable with a tool, it's time to rethink what you are doing. Think about that guy (was it sigfried or roy I can't remember) with the tiger. Bet he never thought he would get mauled by one of his cats.......Would you puit your head in a big cat's mouth!!
Once I followed some instructions from a book on how to drop a bread board end on top of a dado blade. The first 2 passes went great. the last pass though.....lost a joint in my thumb and bought me a 12 week recovery time including reconstructive surgery. I was worried I was going to go through the rest of my life with my big toe sowed to my hand. No joke this is serious buisness. By the grace of God my thumb is still usable less 1 joint.
Now when I get that little voice saying "I'm a little uncomfortable with this setup", I stop right there and figure out a better way. The plywood trick in this thread is a much better and safer way. And if you include recovery time from reconstructive surgery, its much faster too. Remember your power tools don't ask for permission, they just take if given the chance.
Listen to that little voice, it may save your hand, your life.....
TimYou buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
Point taken.
Free handing is not for everyone, you didn't have enough understanding before your attempt, or missed a crucial point.
"if it feels unsafe, dont"..at that time.
I have had no choice at times but to freehand, and with over 25 yrs yrs exp. that voice is ever present.
Follow the commonsense and keep yer hands away from the blade, and don't stand with Mr.Happy in line of a kick back ( or any other parts) dont reach across the table, dont try a curve cut and....guess what? Tapers are no problem.
Sorry for your loss..but you had an experiance..you learned, Now find out why you are condemning an action that can be very safly carried out, with proper attention to the physics involved.
Think about it, a taper is a straight line right? so is a circsaw cut, so is a fence guided cut, so is a low blade TS cut...keep iy straight ( by hand /eye) and keeps parts away from anything that is spinning.....ez enough.
To all tho', buy an ez smart, it is fool proof. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" Nie dajê siê olœniæ statkami parowymi i kolej¹ ¿elazn¹. Wszystko to nie jest cywilizacj¹. - Francois Chateaubriand (1768 - 1848) "
Sphere,
What about those who are now just getting "experiance" freehanding and continue getting "experiance" freehanding because of posts on this forum. Just because you were (sorrry if I offend) lucky during your gaining of "experiance" does not make it a safe practice. There are always safer ways to do things quickly.
How do you suggest a novice get to your level of skill without making mistakes and possibly loosing something they have grown very attached to, like a finger?
I cringe and get shivers up my spine now when I see or hear of someone doing things that every safety tip or guideline tells you not to.
Tim
You buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
Those who have bad experiances, will.
Experiance is not a lack of training, it is a lack of attention to the training we are born with..common sense. Which is soooo easy to dissolve in real life experiance...
Do you practice defensive driving? Do you avoid conflict? Do you wear a seat belt? ..
That is common sense...putting your hand in the path of destuction, is not common sense, nor uncommon as the case may be..I am amazed that it happens,,,,,,,must be a penchant for pain, of which, I shy away from.
A asimple understanding can avoid..all sorts of horrors, and sadly, few can understand "simple" because it is too simple..
Someone who I admire said " if the human brain was simple enough to understand, we'd be too simple to understand it" Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" Everything looks like a nail, to a hammer"
I don't know what kind of answer you are looking for.All this stuff is inherently dangerous, and if you're no good at assessing risks, you should probably never pick up a hammer et al.For those just getting started, I encourage them to visualize each operation -- the same stuff sports psychologists teach athletes. Run the operation through your mind, imagine what can go wrong, then take the necessary precautions (or do it another way). After a time, you can do all this "visualizing" in a millisecond. I betcha Sphere does a lot of this "visualizing" as he's skittering across one of those slippery copper roofs.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
You're right. Just because you read something in a book -- or read it on a forum -- if the procedure doesn't seem safe to you (i.e. that "little voice" you spoke of), you should not do it. As an interesting sidelight, maybe 20 years ago FWW did a piece by some doc who had studied various wwing injuries. Hand tools (especially chisels and utility knives) were responsible for dramatically more injuries than machines. But of course, injuries with a machine were generally more serious. More telling though, he claimed most injuries happen after someone has been doing this work for 10 or more years, which seems to be the point where many get complacent (stop listening to the little voice). You know the syndrome -- "I don't need the push stick for this one piddly little cut.................."********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Also not to get off the thread, but my orthopedic surgen said the most common injury he delt with was the dredded splitting a frozen bagel with a knife......ouch. Glad they came up with those bagel slicers!
TimYou buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
Tim- I agree with you that free handing is dangerous, but so are many other things carpenters do. I've been in construction for 30 years, with my dad and grandfather also being carpenters. I learned fre handing form my dad. My dad died with all his fingers attached, and I can still count to 10 myself.
BUT, and its a big but, my dad's table saw was an underpowered old Craftsman. I freehand only on my portable table saw. I wouldn't even consider doing it on a cabinet saw. And since I got my EZ Smart, I no longer free hand.
I'm very familiar with that little voice- it's saved me numerous times.
nough said!!
TimYou buy a cheap tool twice and then you're still stuck with a cheap tool!
If your stock is less than 8' long-
Take a piece of plywood and rip to about 6-8".
Cut trim piece to length.
Mark the 2 dimensions on the ends of the trim piece.
line up these marks on the ripped edge of ply wood,then screw it the back of the trim.
Send plywood and trim though the saw at the same setting used to rip the ply.
unscew the plywood before installing.
Ingenious.... never heard or thought of that.
Two minds run in the same ditch.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Beat cha to it. thats a first time for me.
unscew the plywood before installing.
Why??
can't you just putty over it??
Mr. T. MOTOL
"They keep talking about drafting a constitution for Iraq. Why don't we just give them ours? It was written by a lot of really smart guys, it's worked for over 200 years, and we're not using it anymore."-- George Carlin
"I think natural selection must have greatly rewarded the ability to reassure oneself in a crisis with complete bull$hit."
I'm Swiss!
I like to re use the screws, I only get so many ya know.
You can do it with a table saw. You can free hand it if you are steady and have used a table saw so many times before you won't be tempted to do anything unsafe and cut something off.
To make a taper on the table saw: Mark the cut on the pc of wood. Take a straight rip of 1/4, 3/8 or 1/2'' ply maybe 4'' wide. Tack that to the pc of wood with one edge on the line you drew covering the pc you want to keep. Now set the rip fence on the table saw to the distance of the width of the plywood (4''). Run the ply with wood attached through the table saw, remove the tacked plywood and there's your tapered trim.
How'd I do, understand it?
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
That basically becomes a shooting board, just using the saw blade instead of a hand plane.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Yessir, a modified tablesaw shoot board guide system.
I admit to more often than not...........rough cutting close with whatever is at hand, beltsanding or planing to the line.
But if that table saw is there and I've got some plywood scraps handy, that's the way.
But I'm giving serious thought to the EZ Smart. A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
We are about to start trimming, Calvin, as soon as my flooring sub wraps up laying the hardwood and gets one coat on. I moved some tools back on site, including my brand new EZ Smart guide, the PC Mag saw with the smart base, and the table. Took a few minutes to tell Bernie (the flooring guy) about it.
Gave Bernie a demo showing how a tapered threshold might be cut. Showed him how the cutouts could be cut for the fireplace hearths, as long as you are smart about where you cannot put nails. Agreed to let Bernie use it however he needed for he remainder of the redbirch flooring job.
Next thing I know, Bernie is using it for lots of stuff, and is sold on the system.
The haunting thing about the procurement of a new tool is the thought of finding a place of honor in the van toolbox. You know, not just sliding it in on the floor. I get comments often on how organized my van is. I'm at the point now where its starting to look like a well ordered sardine can.
I'll take a closer look...........
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Easy.
Bigger van. <g>The heck, you say?
how serious you going to get?;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
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You can clamp 1/16" narrow piece and make 2- 1/32" edges ,minus the blade.
This is the dead wood concept. And the "straight edge is ...the ez smart.
And me, I'm Dino the ez-tool p--p.
For an old house project, the tablesaw is useless.
ALL your cuts are tapered, narrow,
long and just not easy or the same as usual.
But you need to have one on the site.
It just don't feel right without it.
take a straight piece of plywood, or 1 x, mark your taper for your trim, & hot glue your trim to the straight edge, rip on your table saw. your straight edge can be any with you want. No chance of splitting your trim w/ screws ect. Hot glue comes off with a sharp chiesel / knife. Used this method many times.
I use a few 1-inch squares of doublesided carpet tape to do the same thing.
waht I preferto do is to place the piece, scribe the line, then clamp it on the work table upside down, and plane to it with the power plane.
if taking a lot of meat off. rip first with saw almost to t6he pencil l;ine, and then finish true wioth the plane.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Re: free handing with a TS
I think the best method is to nail (glue or tape) a scrap of ply to guide the cut against the fence, as others have suggested.
But if you don't have any scrap laying around, I think you can get away with free handing the rip, as long as you're careful -- and as long as you are using a bench type TS, such as the Ryobi.
I free hand frequently with my Bosch 4000, but only because the motor is on the wimpy side, and will start to stall if the cut wanders.
On the other hand, I have a PM 66 in my shop, and I would never free hand with that beast; you could get yourself into a world of trouble in a heartbeat if the cut started to bind, given the power of that motor.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
My Friend Nikki.
The dead wood concept is the ez answer for all the "problematico" cuts
View Image
http://eurekazone.com/images/gallery/straightlinerip.html
thanks to all for the table saw tips--the idea of the plywood guide seems the most elegant and simple--will try it out on the next doors I trim.Cheers,
Jamie