I’ve wondered this off and on – Everyone here seems to talk a pretty good game about how good their work is, how they appreciate quality, are willing to pay more for better service, etc. Ever wonder if that’s really true for the majority of people here?
I’m not trying to pick on anyone in particular. So I’ll use myself as an example.
Most of you regulars know I’m a truss designer. I’ve talked a lot about trusses, how they should be installed correctly, quality issues, etc. Have you ever wondered if I was really just a half-a$$es truss designer who screws stuff up all the time? Maybe I don’t really care if trusses get installed right or not? Maybe I’m a screwup who can’t keep a job and am switchnig from company to company after I get canned each at each place.
O.K., maybe that’s a bit extreme. I just got to thinking – Talk is cheap. I wonder how many guys who “talk the talk” here actually “walk the walk” when they’re out in the real world?
“We have four boxes used to guarantee our liberty: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box.” [Anonymous]
Replies
Have you ever wondered if I was really just a half-a$$es truss designer who screws stuff up all the time? Maybe I don't really care if trusses get installed right or not? Maybe I'm a screwup who can't keep a job and am switchnig from company to company after I get canned each at each place.
Most of us don't wonder.....We are quite sure of this!!!
;)
Had to be the first!!!
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
There's gotta be one in every bunch, doesn't there ???..................(-:I enjoy painting wildlife. But the rabbits leave hair on my paint rollers
OK Boss I am gonna be the first one to come clean.
I am really a self made, Billionaire, liberated, woman.
I am 28 years old and have a body that Demi Moore would be proud of.
I have been told that I am quite attractive, but I think I am just average looking.
I like all types of men and love to share them with my girlfriends.
If I go more than two days without sex I feel like I am being starved.
All I know about construction I learned here.
I am really here to find smart competant construction people to work on my 20 million dollar "love nest" that I am building on my private Island.
I am a gourmet cook and like motorcycles., skydiving, collecting tractors, Nascar, Beer, lingerie, leather, fast cars, men with fast hands and buying tools for men in exchange for good sex.
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
You finally said something believable.
SamT
you sound like my wife apart from the billionaire bit!!!!!!
aleks
"I am a gourmet cook and like motorcycles., skydiving, collecting tractors, Nascar, Beer, lingerie, leather, fast cars, men with fast hands and buying tools for men in exchange for good sex."
Boss isn't insterested in any of that if you don't have a proper set of what my wife calls her cookie crumb shelf.
Excellence is its own reward!
You also left out that you like overweight men and find flatulence a turn-on.
It happens like this I let one of my crew work on something while I go take care of something else and I come back and its half #### and he's telling me thats how you do it and I have to show him that it looks much better like this but sometimes I let it slide or try and hide the mistake. My biggest problem is in my head I know how I want it done but telling my crew it seems to get lost in the translation and they always want to take the easy way out.Most times the H.O. says that looks great vindicating my crew which pisses me off because I know better.
ANDYSZ2
I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Reminds me of the weight lifter saying: "Anyone can bench press 500 pounds on the internet."
Seriously, I think over the long term you'd get a sense of who does things right and who cuts corners. Many of you have been here long enough to have that sense about each other.
Just my saturday morning two cents worth.
Tan fat looks just like muscle!
Boss-- I'm in kind of an unusual situation right now in that I'm basically working as a temp for whoever calls. me, so I have to perform or I won't get any calls. I just finished a complicated trim job on a $4.75 million spec house and both the GC and the trim contractor were happy with my work. I was one of 4 carpenters trimming. I have to admit that I'm very particular about trim fitting properly whether its clam casing or a custom mill.
Good thread. I think part of the answer is that those who talk about quality know the difference and try to do it right. Stuff happens and it's not always done right. It's how you deal with the mistakes that makes your work better.
Do it right, or do it twice.
ELCID72-- my dad, who was also a carpenter and trained me, frequently said that the sign of a good carpenter is one who can fix his own mistakes. I never asked him about the one that can fix other's mistakes<G>
"...I'm very particular about trim fitting properly whether its clam casing or a custom mill."
But how do we know that? The point of this thread wasn't to bash anyone, or get anyone to brag. I was just wondering how much of the things that are said here are really true........You say "psycho" like it's a bad thing.
Boss-- I thought I covered that when I mentioned my current employment situation. I don't usually toot my own horn , but I am confident of my skills. That doesn't mean I'm not open to learning new tricks. In fact, that's one of the main reasons I hang out here! Don't take this the wrong way, but ultimately what you guys think of my abilities doesn't really matter, since you're not paying me. On the other hand, I would miss this forum and the banter if I wasn't around. I do think this is an interesting thread, but I think it can be difficult to determine if someone really walks the walk just from reading their posts.
Edited 9/27/2003 5:31:21 PM ET by Shep
I think it's all pretty relative.
There are some guys who work around me think that I'm anal about doing it too good but there are a couple guys who do trim for me that are better than I am. And I dang sure can't hold a candle to some of the guys here for fine skills, or communications, or business management.
So I guess I'm somewhere in the middle, but overall most of the customers get satisfied, and a few of them get impressed - while I do a little bit better every year.
I don't really try to compete against anyone else. I just try to do better than I did last year. I think that kind of summarizes it. Are you better than last year, or starting to walllow?
They say a rut is just a grave with both ends knocked out. Don't get in a rut..
Excellence is its own reward!
Boss: Good topic....Like Piffin said...its all relative. I come from a small town where if you built a two step stoop in oak..you were something. I have locals come around my shop shaking their head at my projects.
HOWEVER...I am always going to other large stair companies and coming back shaking my head feeling about knee high to a duck. The work I see makes me realize how much more I need to learn..and yet these visits are the catalyst that constantly raises the type of work I would like to also produce someday. It will always be relative and I will always be struggling trying to stay in the middle between mediocre and a craftsman.
Another factor is building for contractors that DEMAND high end work. I need to work for these types every once in a while to keep my standards from slipping. I find it a hard struggle to do as good a job for a cookie cutter housebuilder whose only concern is cost and time to get it done.
Edited 9/27/2003 6:22:59 PM ET by Stan Foster
Im only here for the beer..:>)
Darkworksite4: Subterráneo en la república de gente de Calif
my tag line says it all.
bobl Volo, non valeo
Edited 10/3/2003 7:17:22 PM ET by bobl
Boss,
this is a pretty good topic. Actually---I would say it's the most interesting one ,to me personally ,that I have seen here in about a year.
My take is that MAYBE 5-10% of the people here are real artists---really awe inspiring.
I think the majority---say about 60-70% are pretty good----they are solidly competent at their particular specialty---but like to interact here to learn more.( I would definitely lump myself in this 60-70% group). Of course out of this 60-70% group----about half are delusional and mistakenly THINK they belong in that upper level 5-10%
the remainder---say 15-20%---aren't really that good----but the important thing is that they are trying to learn. Maybe they only have a couple years experience. Eventually they will make it into that middle group(60-70%)----after all most of us made it ---they can to.
I am not figuring any of the DIY's into those groups BTW---just the pro's.
BTW---quality and competence are relative things---they are relative to price,geography,specialty,speed etc. Larry Haun has a good article in the latest FHB that kind of points this out.As a framer---I am sure he is quite capable of working to tighter tolerances than he customarily does----but he has a good workable understanding of where he needs to,and where that would be wasted effort.
In my area and specialty---I know VERY well what materials and methods are gonna work well on the sort of houses I specialize in.And I know how the older homes were put together here---and because of those local practices---what the likely troubles and solutions are. BUT---move me to florida---and a lot of my tricks are gonna be irrelevant( no snow and ice problems there) and I am not gonna be familiar with local codes regaurding wind codes or whatever. I would lack basic competence in that LOCALITY---and people from florida would probably quickly be out of business HERE.
Even in my own area---i am only profitable in acertain segment of the market(owner occupied,established neighborhoods). I am way too expensive and slow for new construction work.and the guys in my trade who specialize in new construction can't deliver the range and level of service needed for MY market.
So---in short---a guy could well be perfectly competent in location "A"----but a complete idiot in location "B"
Great post. You just spoke volumes to which I can't help but agree.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Hey Steve - aren't you around Cleveland? I was just watching 60 Minutes and there was a story about eminent domain that gave me the chills.
saw that too...
here in RI... one of the towns wants to take a garden center / farm... that has been in the family for couple hundred years... to make room for an insurance company's new office....
hmmmm....
eminent domain sure does seem to get overused these days
gotta go... Law & Order is on with vincent d'onfrio... my favorite quirky detective
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 9/28/2003 9:04:56 PM ET by Mike Smith
Well I first read this thread Saturday morning and have been giving it a lot of thought in the 36 hours or so since. The one thing that I thought immediately after reading Boss's original message was that I seldom find people here bragging up their own work.
Seems like people show photos to illustrate a point, or maybe because a photo can be far more descriptive than text, or doing their best to answer someone else's question, or offer a differing opinion, but as for reading people saying "...I did so and so, and it's better than what you did..." well, I just don't stumble onto that type stuff very often.
As far as opposing opinions, I really value those. It's because another poster has a different opinion, or perspective, or set of techniques, that makes reading their post worthwhile.
As far as someone portraying themself as something other than what they are...I have to wonder...why would anyone? I mean, it might be fun to pretend you are something other than what you are for a little bit - maybe to see if you could pull it off - but it would get old awfully fast, wouldn't it?
Maybe I'm naive or something, but I just take people here at their word. Why not? It's not like I'm risking anything believing they are who they say they are. I think everyone who follows along and posts often enough to be anything of a regular is sincere in at least their interest in the trades - that's enough for me. Beyond that, I think people do the best they can most of the time, why wouldn't they?
And besides, some of the best ideas come from unconventional minds, like neophytes, who haven't been conditioned by years of traditional thought. An open mind is a powerful thing.
As far as someone portraying themself as something other than what they are...I have to wonder...why would anyone? I mean, it might be fun to pretend you are something other than what you are for a little bit - maybe to see if you could pull it off - but it would get old awfully fast, wouldn't it?
Dude ... there have been "regulars" around here in the past that assumed different personas just to fight twice with the same guy ....
Some men ...better make that man ...just positive of one idgit .....that have portrayed them selves as women(a woman) ....
So someone saying they're an expert what ever is no far stretch.
It's a goofy world out there in the internet.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Greencu
I am in Akron---about 35 minutes south of cleveland. I didn't see the show---but we have had some smaller verions of the same nastiness down here also.
Of course ohio isn't alone in this stuff. I once heard a nasty rumor of eminent domain thievery in Texas.It seems acertain baseball team connected to acertain president wanted a stadium once upon a time....... yaknowhow that goes.
Hey aren't you the copper roofing genius?
How about I invite myself down for some expert lessons sometime? Are you anywhere near Elizabethtown ,Kentucky.
Ain't no geniuses 'round here. I'm in Lexington - probaly about an hour from Etown. Come on down, we can swap secrets.
Good thread.
There have been a couple of times someone has said something to me to indicate they think I am more highly skilled in the trades than I actually am. And they got that opinion from reading this board.
I have often tried to be clear that I do not consider myself to be all that good at certain stuff, but I wonder if people consider such statements as false modesty.
Generally, I do decent work. But I am often very disappointed in what I've done. I take comfort in the customer's satisfaction, but I am often mystified on how he or she can be so satisfied.
I do constantly strive to do better, to learn more. This board has been an extreme amount of help in that process. I am miles ahead of where I was five years ago.
As for other people...I think you learn who to trust. There are a lot of people here for whom I have a tremondous amount of respect. I take their posts very seriously. Many of them I have met, many I look forward to meeting someday, and many of them I consider friends.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Rich: Good reply that reflects exactly how I feel. Many here know I post some pictures of my projects. It always bothers me that my posts may be seen as patting myself on my back. In reality I get a lot of back door e-mails encouraging me to keep posting. I have a deep passion for my stairbuilding that I look forward to sharing some of it by posting if I have an interesting project going on.
Stan
I'm not sure whih of your photos I look forward to more, the stairs or the gyrocapopter.
Excellence is its own reward!
Piff, some days your fingers type faster than your mind! Like the previous post...some words are a bit unusual :) Happens occasionally with you...is it when you're tired or what?
Do it right, or do it twice.
This is the second time you've mentioned that I don't always speel just so.
So, I left a C out of the word "which" I've got lousy typing skills and don't take the time for spellcheck or anything more than minimal proofreading. Your previous note made me start proofreading a little more. I think that my mind is too fast for my fingers though.
And it is neck and neck with my mouth. Sometimnes one comes in first, sometimes the other. Wife prefers it when my mind beats my mouth.
;)
Of course my contracts are all right up to snuff. I re-read them six or eight times.
I intentionally used the word gyrocapopter instead of gyrocopter because it sounds more like the real life sound of a small engine with a rotor overhead.
Listen....
Kapopata
Kapopata
Kapopata
Kapopata
Kapopata
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin: I like that "kapopata" word of yours. That word best describes what a gyrocopter sounds like.
Edited 9/29/2003 9:41:31 PM ET by Stan Foster
Sounded more like a one lunger Rhine batrge
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I don't suppose I wouold want to fly a one lunger gyrokapopter.
Excellence is its own reward!
No offense meant on the spelling. It just seems that you have good days and bad days (slow and harried?) and your spelling is a barometer. Some posts are letter perfect, and some are, well... I usually try to catch most of mine, but sometimes will let one or two pass cuz I'm too lazy to edit.
Now that you explain it, I wouldn't have said anything about the missing c (kinda reminds me of a story about the proverbial missing link...I think it might be Luka), but it looked like the 'copter was spelled wrong. Makes sense now. I had a sgt in the army that called them things 'heli-co-peters' .
Do it right, or do it twice.
no offence.
You oughta hear me pronounce 'grocery'.
Excellence is its own reward!
Just did, sounded fine
Gotta agree about the "sometimes wondering" part, but I'm a bit bewildered.
How can anyone here use the same internet medium that smacks with the potential for illusion to prove that no illusion is taking place?
The description of good practices and knowledge of appropriate materials for a job is worth alot in and of itself it would seem, even if the poster is not a true practitioner themselves of the stated in real daily life. All who come here can benefit from learning the right ways of doing things and the "why" of it.
Take for example, an author of a book about good building practices who is wheelchair bound and has been all his/her life and never lifted a hammer or driven a nail. Does this diminish the value of the information provided?
And so I guess to me, it doesn't really matter all that much who really does or doesn't "walk the walk" as far as the posters on this forum are concerned. If the info is sound, the info is sound. And that's what I comme here for.....to learn from those who know more than I. I don't learn anything by listening to myself.
Interesting topic. What we write and what we do can be two dif things and I am sure that they are for all of us sometimes. Even you must admit that though a truss design you engineered was proper there may have been a better way to design it had you had more time, more money and/ or more information.
Having stated that, concider this - you can tell by:
The character (demonstrated through many posts) of most posters who truely WTW.
Who admits to errors and who won't.
Who asks for advice as well as offers it.
IMO, this site does not neccesarily attract the best GC's and Tradepeople, rather those who admit their knowledge is not infinite but their thirst for it is and those who have spent much time in the building biz and feel they have something to share so others could benefit from these years of experiance.
Yes, to a certain degree we live in an artificial world here on the internet where all miters meet without gaps, concrete never cracks and paint dries without any splatters or drips. But most of us who work/ live in the construction world know that we have off days (the flu or personal issues clouding our judgement) and we don't do our best work. For those who may or may not do their best work daily and remain hacks - the scrutiny we all are subjected to pretty much flushes them out.
One of the reasons I like the photo gallery is be/c we get to learn more than just "talk". After seeing Stan's work on stairs, no one doubts the "fine-ness" of his approach. Same with Brisketbean's stuff, and Fusco and Joe Carola's (sp) framing. Others, too. We know a lot about Blogett from his articles in the magazine, and I felt a lot of validation myself from the back cover. That's just one partial answer, but it's a start.
Don`t get too carried away with yourself there buddy....they can only think of one yucklehead in the country admitting to building round homes....where else are they gonna go for filler like that?! DOH! (I tease `cause I care!)
As for Boss` question, I`m inclined to believe that for the most part, contractors, builders, carpenters and what have you, that would not only subscribe to and read FHB, but also take the time to interact on in such a forum as this, would more than likely at least care for the work they do. I don`t know that any of us are as good as we`d like to be or that any job we`ve ever completed will ever be perfect in our own eyes, but I do accept that on the whole, the regulars around here give it there all on a daily basis. I may disagree with the aproaches of many towards tackling specific projects, but I don`t see what I would consider, shoddy advice all too often.J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
sure .. I "wonder" about lotsa people around here.
if U read close enough ...over time ..U can see who's fulla sh!t and who ain't.
There are a number of "regulars" I read here that haven't the first clue as to what they are talking about. A coupla even try to infer they're contractors or remodelers .... when I can tell they never charged good money for the crap advice they're giving out ..bacause after the first coupla law suits that'd probably back off a bit!
Then ..there are the guys that definitely know their stuff. And those same guys all seem to have a very well rounded pool of info .... know a lot about alot.
Those are the guys that I'm positive have been at this game for real ..for a while.
Then ..there's the diy'er that think they're pro's ..or better ..and have a good grasp of what they're read somewhere ..or done sucessfully ONCE .... but they show their ignorance in insisting their one time fix is suited to all situations.
Below them ..I see a few people that read something once .... so now it's gospel. They tend to have the most opinion related answers .... usually attacking someone for using "inferior" products or design.
Alot can be had by the way someone posts ...or answers ...a question.
No one's fooling me!
I know who to trust.
I'd say it's about 50-50 nowadays.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Boss
This is a very interesting thread, I have wondered some of the same things at times.
I guess its like Jeff says, you start to get a feel for whether or not the person is just typing what he has read or what he has done.
I used to work with a guy, very decent carpenter/craftsman, he was very well read on how to do most everything in regard to building a house, but you just knew that he didn't know what he was talking about when it came to the stuff that he had never done. I think that you get the same feeling over time with regard to the people here.
Doug
Jeff
sure .. I "wonder" about lotsa people around here.
Man, you said it there.
Doug
A little secret....all the work I do comes out crooked......thats why I built this circa:1680 house......no one will notice.....pictures soon to come.
Be well
andyTrue compassion arises out of the plane of consciousness where I "am" you.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
That long list of yours forgot the HO that is here tryig to learn so when asked what it wants will have some idea of what is being asked, if nothing else.
They are starting Monday on this house, will move the machinery in and start building the site. Without having read here, we would be really nervous about what will be going on.
Now we know to relax, that "things will get done" and a house will stand there, hopefully a "fine" one, someday.:-)
Let's not forget that information in itself is a worthy goal also, even if not to be of immediate use.
I used to have a neighbor who told me about the 7 years he spent behind the lines doing special ops. in Vietnam. eg. "carrying a pilot out 300 miles on his back". He was 10 years old in 1975. Talk is cheap.
Maybe he was refering to his history studies in grade school. The Pilot was probably the "Pilot" pen he kept in his backpack.
Any chance you use to live in Hagerstown, PA and your neighbor's name was Larry?Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
"Larry"? Larry who?
Carpenter, Larry Carpenter.
Guru of the trade we all owe our livelyhoods to.
Master joiner(among other masters)
Accomplished inventer and all around GREAT guy!
We should all be so lucky as to endeavor to be worthy of being allowed to even be compared to this great man!
He also has to brothers named Darryl and is his own Grandpa!Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Oh. Thanks.
Hey! Is he any relation to George W. Carpenter, whose brainchild we know as the Woodshed Tavern?
No way Jim, NO way!Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
35123.78 in reply to 35123.77
Any chance you use to live in Hagerstown, PA and your neighbor's name was Larry?
No, I am a VA hillbilly in Mi, but born in GA. We had a Larry in VA....named Vic. Wish I could have worked w/ him for 3 years or so.....may have learned something.
Wait...one more category. The DIY'er who knows that they don't know as much as the "real" guys, and who comes humbly to seek education at the feet of those more knowledgeable ;)
that don't count ....
Boss asked about people that we suspected of being mostly BS.
Fake pro's , ya know?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
WOW - good topic.
This reminds me of the signature that I saw [somewhere on this board] a while back.. "If you were arrested for being a good contractor, would there be enough evidence to convict you?"
You never know! I try to learn every day, and there are things that I do today that I never would have considered even 2 years ago. I'm not a builder, but one who sits on the other side of the working drawings - yet holds skilled craftsmen in the highest regard. The more I can learn from each of you, the better. I sometimes get burned by people wanting to take me snipe hunting, aka just BS'ing me, but as the years click past, I think my BS detector is getting a little sharper. I only wish that I didn't have to learn everything by screwing it up once...
...sometimes people tell enough about learning from their mistakes to make this place worth visiting.
I'm suffering from a dilemma that happened only a week ago. A customer of mine that I had worked for once before is selling his house. He asked me to repair some rotten cedar siding in a manner that I would have never suggested. Unattractive and prone to rot in the near future. I tried to convince him otherwise, cut all the rot out, use flashing, etc. He was not hearing me. "Selling the house, want inexpensive" he said. I did what he asked because I needed the work and felt confident that I could secure work on his other properties.
I began as he was leaving for work and was almost completed by the time I was ready to quit. I got a call from him about two hours later. He was upset that it looked terrible and was not what he asked for. I was able to show him that, based on the proposal he agreed to, and that the drawings and text of the proposal provided reflected the work to a tee.
Despite my being right and him being wrong the fact is that I did something that I knew better that to do. In addition, prior to my proving my point he used a half hour of my time to tell me just how shoddy my workmanship is.
In the end we found a solution and I am working on phase two of this project but, there will always be that black mark in his head that I may not be a qualified carpenter.
My point is that, although I always aim to be proud of my work and try to see the big picture of how what I do will fit into the greater whole of the structure. The customer can have the work fast, cheap, or right. And in some cases two out of three. I got burned because what I should have told him is that I wouldn't do what he asked me to. He may not have liked it but I could feel a whole lot better about it.
Edited 10/1/2003 10:22:40 PM ET by Tapcon
"I got burned because what I should have told him is that I wouldn't do what he asked me to. He may not have liked it but I could feel a whole lot better about it."
How shall I say this? " I feel your pain."
At one time or another, I think we've all gotten sucked into doing something such as you've described, that doesn't "feel" right to us, but we do it anyway. Mostly, it'll come back to haunt you. Sometimes immediately, sometimes later. Hopefully we all learn the lesson early on and take it to heart. Don't feel bad because you "succumbed" this once. Feel bad if you didn't learn the lesson and find yourself doing it again. <g>
I refuse to cobble stuff unless it's on an real emergency basis and only for the short term. My reputation is at stake, my business is based on my reputation and I'm building (or preserving) that reputation with every single thing that I do........whether I like it or not.
The bait you use (your reputation) determines what kind of fish you're most apt to catch. I prefer the taste of trout to carp.....even if I have to wait longer for a bite or look longer for the right spot to cast.
I think you've just learned an important lesson that will benefit you from this day forward. As a matter of fact, I'd bet on it.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 10/2/2003 9:11:37 AM ET by GOLDHILLER
Excellent topic. I used to wonder if anyone here did any real work. Ive been here off and on since near the beginning. The pictures and the examples of work i have seen both here and on some other sites that lots of guys here post on have proven to me there are some very skilled people here. My gut feeling is its about 25% highly skilled craftsmen, 25% good carpenters, and 25% guys who get the job done but it aint always pretty,and 25% people who have no clue. To be honest i was disapointed a little when i read a couple articles in the magazine a couple years ago. I always felt that if i read it in a magazine like FHB it was written by an expert or master craftsman. Some of those articles were written by guys posting here and I could tell they were neither. I didnt mind culling through the info here because i expected that but knowing that it was in the magazine too was a surprise. Maybe my expectations were too high. Now iread the magazine more as an idea base than a how to book. Its still good but lost some of the luster. Kinda like when you see a movie star up close and realize that a lot of the beauty is in the makeup and lighting.
One night this past week, A carpenter friend of mine (who had me roof his house 12 years ago) called me to tell me he had a leak. We climbed up on the roof trying to figure out where it was coming from. As I looked at my work from that time period, I kind of realised the progression I've been going through since then. I don't do things the way I did them 12 years ago. I've seen problems occur and tried to find ways to keep them from occuring again. I probably won't be doing things the same way 12 years from now. My carpenter buddy said that he thought he was a really good carpenter 12 years ago, but he's much better now and sees he still has a long way to go. I feel the same. My education will be continuing until I stop working. That's why I come here. For every load of BS, there's some good advise or the different perspective I needed to figure out my problem.
If you don't smoke pot then you must simply be a competitor for the position of village idiot. Gabe
After reading through this thread I think many good points have been made.
I've certainly benefitted a lot by reading here over the past few months.
I think it's easier to judge the character of the posters here than it is to judge their work.
My assessment of myself is that, as my forum name implies, I'm somewaht out of date. I don't think I've ever been in the top 5% of people doing what I've done in the trades, but I have performed as well as I knew at each stage of learning.
As I've alluded to before: I think a certain amount of the "Fine" quality talked about here is often out of place on most job sites and sometimes amounts to a Pi$$in contest for no good reason. Knowledge is only useful when applied in an appropriate manner. Anybody remember the thread about how to fix the roof on an old shed?!?!
I'm just starting construction on my new home. I did a careful cost analysis of the project (for financing reasons) and came up with about $165,000 IF it was going to be built by a contractor... (And that was probably a little low). The plans and specs appraisal came back at $146,900. Why? Because of our local market! (I expect to be able to build it with my sons' help for about $90,000).
SO: What makes "Fine" homebuilding? Marble counters, copper roofs, foam insulation, cedar or stucco siding, gold faucets... Here putting those things in any home would probably equate to throwing your money away!!! (We just sold a beautiful Mediterranean Style home with curve top oak doors, oak floors, 2,400 sqr ft, 2 car garage, everything in excellent condition, for $152,000! In our town there is usaully only about one sale per year of a home in town for over $130,000.)
So, back to the point of the thread: Sometimes fine homebuilding might be foolish homebuilding and everyone here, including me, has missed the mark on some posts.
Back in '79 I worked for a guy who had a policy that whenever anyone made any mistake they had to stand up, hold an arm in the air, and yell: I MADE A MISTAKE!! It was an excellent policy.
As for what you get here: I take it all at face value. Some advice I've gotten has been very helpful. But, you know what they say about getting what you pay for. Let the freeby taker beware!
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
I just admitted to being another Wrecked Angle from the get go and got it behind me. Lately it seems like every time I learn something I find out about five other things I never knew I didn't know until I read it hear.
Hmmmm... the more I learn, the less I realize I know... I'm never gonna make a good Architect am I? :-)>
Seriously, trying to come off as a quality craftsman can actually help you become one if you open your ears at least as often as you open your mouth. Chances are, even the greatest masters among us have areas where they can grow.
I don't know that I've lived long enough to claim expertise in any area but I'm a whole lot better at everything I do than I was before I started engaged in the diverse dialog here. This is one of the better universities I've attended. :-)>
Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
My mother always told me to believe half of what I see and none of what I hear.
And there is an old saying that is worth dragging out...
"There is much to be said for the man who does not say it himself"
Ability vs advice is an old school philosophy Boss. Its from back in the day when people worked their way through the ranks. Those with ability advanced one step at a time. With all of the trades becoming so specialized (especially in urban construction) its getting pretty hard to find people with any kind of varied technical experience.
The trouble with this forum is: you have to be able to explain yourself on paper.
Turtleneck
Meanwhile, back on topic,
I confess, I'm really a 14yo steelin' time at my daddys 'putor.
SamT
With out proofreading:
Meanwhile bavk on topic
Icoonfes I'mreally a14yo steelin' time atymydaadys'put[r
saMT
Meanwhile, back on topic,
I confess, I'm really a 14yo steelin' time at my daddys 'putor.
No, that's me...
I'm just a black dog named Rufus.
Writing love letters and nasty-grams.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
And occassionaly lifting my leg.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
Just don't lift it on your computer.........I lost my virginity. Can I have yours?
why not, if anyone knows how to fix it'd it'd be Luka
I'm a dog named Luka. I live on the second floor......
aWe're being trained through our incarnations-trained to seek love, trained to seek light,trained to see the grace in suffering
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"And occassionaly lifting my leg."
You should do that more often than occasionally, it isn't healthy to hold it so much.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
This thread is actually a good place to touch on something I really need to address.
One thing that continues to bother me a little is the number of times I'm jestingly referred to as an "Architect." I am still an "Architectural Intern" pursuing licensure. I don't always correct it because who wants to keep hearing it but it is actually against the law for me to pretend to be anything else. I could not even legally refer to myself as an Architectural Intern until I was accepted into the NCARB Intern Development Program.
It may seem like no big deal but it really is. There is probably not a more legally protected title out there. It is akin to referring to someone as a doctor or lawyer who has not earned the requisite certification.
Believe me, I'm working on it, but I'm not there yet so I would appreciate everyone helping me keep my "appearance" here honest. Newbies may never read one of my disclaimers and assume I'm something I'm not if they only pick up on one of you referring to me as an Architect. Thanks...
Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
I kinda get the same thing sometimes - People think I'm an engineer. But I only have a high school diploma, earned by taking the easiest electives I could and just squeaking by.
Must be 'cause I LOOK so intelligent........................(-:I think the aliens forgot to remove your anal probe.
Must be 'cause I LOOK so intelligent
So you deleted all the pics of you on here so no one could go back and check?
hehehe
Smart a$$.I'm trying to see things from your point of view but I just can't get my head that far up my ####.
yeah, well at least one end of me is smart.....
sometimes the old head just ain't right.
On my anatomy, the end you refer to used to "smart" quite a bit growing up. I finally figured out that Mom, Dad, and every school principle I ever encountered, were only trying to drive the intellegence to its correct location.
I think that's where the lump in my throat must have come from every time Dad ripped that belt out of those loops. Must have been the intelligence trying to climb back up where it belonged before the heat got turned up in its present location. :-)>Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
How 'bout if we call you a Non-arch and call Boss Hog a Nongineer.
Try rolling those terms off your tongue a couple of times. Not too bad, if you consider the phonic similarities to Monarch and Ninja.
Excellence is its own reward!
So, would it follow that those who are questioned by other forum members (as to whether or not they qualify as construction what-evers) are actually conquacktors?Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
LOL,
and those who look for faults on the job, in posts here, or amoung our political representatives must bear the title, "Sinspectors" until such time as they fall from grace and become themselves a "sinspetacle" .
Excellence is its own reward!
until such time as they fall from grace and become themselves a "sinspetacle"
There, but for the grace of God, go I... : )Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
So you aren't even smart enough to be a real achitech yet??
:)Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Sounds like an architect... ; )Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.