Tankless water heaters What do you know?
I’ve lived in my house for 8 years. I bought it brand new. I’m guessing that the water heater is near the end of it’s life. I’m assuming the builder didn’t put in a great water heater. It’s never given me a problem but I thought I would get some opinions from the experts about tankless water heaters.
Currently I have a 50 gallon, natural gas unit. The house has 2-1/2 baths and is 2500 square feet.
So what do you know?
Thanks,
Len
Replies
What makes you think that your 8 year old water heater is about to fail?
If it really is about to fail.....is it in warranty...or can it be repaired?
I assume fom the thread title that you would like to entertain the idea of a tankless unit instead of a standard water heater.
Be sure to consider existing flue size and the much larger flue used by "on demand."
Purchase price consderations and installation specs will also figure in the final tally to arrive at a possible "payback" scenario.
Just more questions.......no answers!
...............Iron Helix
Several other water heaters in the tract have failed. Since they were built the year before and the year after I'm assuming that I may not have to many years left on it. I did note that the ones that have failed had water softeners in the home. Don't konw if that has anything to do with it.
Warranty was for five years.
I been surfing the web for some information but it seems that I only come across sales information. So I'm looking for some real world advice.
We had a tankless water heater on our home in Japan. Never paid much attention to it.
Len
"I did note that the ones that have failed had water softeners in the home. Don't know if that has anything to do with it."
Water softeners work by removing 2+ ions and replacing them with a greater concentration of 1+ ions (NaCl). That's why you add salt to the softener, why the resulting water tastes a bit saltier, and why the water heater fails sooner.David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
8yrs is doing good w a builders grade hot water heater check rinnai gas hot water heaters
I'm going to use a Takagi T-K2 tankless water heater when I get around to that part of the project here. I have a good friend who's a busy plumber and has installed a lot of them, and a few Rinnai. He says his customers are happy with both types. My existing tank has a 3/4" propane line and a 3" B-vent. The Takagi will reuse the 3/4" gas and will require a 4" stainless category 3 flue, so I'll have to cut a new hole in the roof. My main reason is to save space... the tank is in the way.
If you are concerned about your tank life, pull the anode and make sure it is in good shape. If not, replace it and you will greatly extend your water heater life. I am unaware that builder put in a special poor quality water heater. It is true, they are the bottom of the line but they still should last 10 to 12 years especially if you keep a good anode in them.
Bill
Len, I wish I could put some info out to you but I am really confused and am about to spring for an electric heater installed into new construction, based upon the information that I have been getting from water heater companies literature.
I couldn't find a gas water heater with a warranty for more than six years. The gas water heaters have one inch of insulation. They cost 400 to 650 dollars before installation.
An average electric heater with good construction material comes with a warranty of 12 years and 3 inches of insulation. comparable estimates for annual operating cost run about 450 dollars a year for gas and 600 or so for electric.
Then I dug into what are the rates per KW that they based annual cost of operation and they said 8.4 cents per KW I would have to double that rate in my area.
The next thing that nobody figures into the gas operating cost is the home owners cost of heating all the combustion air the the gas water heater needs over a year of operation. whether it is a power driven combustion, out the side of the house, or a conventional stack draft.
Anyway, I figure the electric will last twice as long, cost a couple hundred less than the gas. less installation cost for electric, less chance of mishaps and gas exposure (no propane, NG, or carbon monoxide) with electric. In the end I think it comes out to a wash.
Good Luck with your choice.
Virginbuild
I live in California. Where natural gas is much cheaper than electricity. I wouldn't mind saving money on natural gas as well. I figured if I didn't have to keep 50 gallons of water hot all the time, I would be saving some money.
I know everything has a life cycle. I was wondering what the pros and cons were to using a tankless.
Len
If your natural gas is much cheaper that electricity, don't even consider a tankless unit. It will cost a bundle up front, cost way more to operate on electricity and unless your lifestyle will fit a tankless situation it will be step backwards.
Most of the good things said about tankless are by salesmen.
If you have good sunshine where you are, and want to be environmentally consious, consider a solar preheater for the gas fired water heater. Keeping 50 gallons of water hot is cheap and give you the advantage of intermittent heavy use without running out.
I spwnt some time in London with a tankless for just the shower..what a pieceocrap.
I wasn't considering a electric water heater tank or tankless. We use natural gas for the water heaters in California. At least for the most part.
Thanks all, for the information. I will continue my research.
Len
I'm not a salesman.
In the right situation and properly installed, they are fantastic.
With an uncooperative homeowner, improper installation or hostile conditions, they're worthless.
As long as conditions permit, any home I live in from here out will have one (or 2). But I understand how they work, how to live with them, and where to put them. Not everyone does.
Check the archieves as suggested. There is a wealth of information covering every aspect from all sides of the story.
Can you elaborate on proper location, installation, etc.?
I guess not....
I've dragged out not responding in hopes of someone else with better credentials stepping up instead.
But in lieu of not using the archieves for a better explanation...
If using a gas heater - the exhaust MUST be properly sized. Most of today's gas vents being installed for water heaters will have a 4" flue. Not big enough for an on demand.
If using electric, the incoming power lines are quite large.
Makeup combustion air for gas models is larger than for tanked ones. These issues need to be factored in when drawing the plans.
These type of heaters have water flow switches that activate them. The rate of flow appears to be as low a 1/2 gallon per minute. That's actually fairly fast. Much faster than what we commonly use to rinse our razors while shaving. Not to mention a slow hot water flow to rinsing dishes after washing.
The location of the heater should be somewhere near the central of the water distribution due to the heat loss of the pipes and the time taken to deliver actual hot water.
These two previous issues require the homeowner's cooperation as it's different than most of us have been taught.
Talk of properly sizing these units seems misleading... Many say one has to go for larger units because the usual size will only handle one shower (or major use) at a time. I find such claims confusing because how many of us now have two or more showers running at the same time? Commonly we have learned that we wait until the other shower is done before we start ours. Maybe if you have a big litter of kids or have your house plumbed with 1" supply pipes instead of 3/4ers.
On the positive side, the space saved can be significant in cases where square footage is at a premium. No seismic restaints are necessary in California. My house now has two 75 gallon tank heaters now for two of us. What an overkill. When we are out of town for a week or two, those darn things keep heating. A tankless would not. And a tankless would provide all of the hot water both of us would ever need.
Seriously, those archieves have much to review.
In my case now, when my heaters start to show their age, I'll replace both with one tankless model. The exhaust flue will be the right size because I've just had my furnace replaced with an high efficiency model using it's own direct draft & vent. The existing B vent will then be the right size without the furnance adding into it.
Most installations don't have such friendly conditions.
I have one it works great. I use about $25.00 worth of propane each month for hot water and cooking. My only complaint is the extra six second wait for hot water.( three for the flow sensor and three to bring it up to temp) Two showers and some one doing dishes at the same time is not a problem. I got one because I have a big bath tub that I like full and hot.
What make and model is your heater? I am considering putting one in a house I am building, for a variety of reasons (efficiency- use as a summer and weekend home, space savings, easy to winterize).
Mike Fitz
TAKAGI Model TK-1 I think Home Depot sells them now. http://www.takagi.com
What's the low flow rate for that model? Meaning at what flow does the thing fire up?
This is a frequent question. There are definite disadvantages to tankless water heaters. Check the archives, there are many long discussions on this over the past two years. You'll find a lot to read.
Len, listened to a bit of spiel from a Bosch rep just yesterday & I believe they have a 10 or 12 year warranty on their gas heaters.
Joe H