Hi all,
Just wondering, is it neccessary to tape and mud drywall seams that will be completely covered by kitchen cabinets?
Jesse David
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
A pro painter evaluates a variety of drywall sanders and dust collection systems for quality of finish, user fatigue, and more.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Fine Homebuilding Magazine
Fine Home Building
Follow
-
Fine Homebuilding
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial Now -
GBA Prime
Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
Guy I work with insists it will prevent air infiltration. We even primed and painted too (then you don't have to cut in like you have to when you paint after the cabinsets are up).
Seems to me it would be harder just avoiding the area behind the cabinets than taping everything.
>Seems to me it would be harder just avoiding the area behind the cabinets than taping everything.
In the place i'm working on, nearly all of the drywall that had been replaced is behind the cabinets, which get a continuous tile backsplash between the countertop and the upper cabs, and the uppers go right to the ceiling - so there are very few joints to tape that will end up being exposed. It would definately be much less work not to tape them (especially as I'm not very experienced with taping/mudding).
If air/moisture getting through the seams is the only issue, and they're never going to be seen, would there be anything wrong with just running a quick bead of caulking along the seams?
Jesse David
Edited 11/25/2006 1:56 pm by jes
Edited 11/25/2006 1:56 pm by jes
Jesse,
When I remodeled my kitchen a few years back my taping skills were quite rusty. The areas behind the cabinets served as a practice surface. For me it was time well spent.
Best of luck and have fun!
Why is everyone always looking to do a halfass** job? It "will never be seen" until you go to fix or re-arrange the cabs and you discover the previous guy didn't do the job completely!. It's like not installing the flooring under the base cabs. How much do you save in material vs. the time spent cutting around the base cabs? Tape , mud, prime and paint,then hang your cabs. It's always O.K. to skimp until your the one who takes down the cabs to put up new ones and find the previous guy didn't finish the wall properly. just my 2 cents worth.
Geoff
Geoff,
I'm only looking to do an efficient job, not a "halfassed" one. I approach my woodwork very conscientiously and thouroughly, but when it comes to general reno work i'm pretty unexperienced. Because of the basic layout of the kitchen, I think it's unlikely that anyone will want to use the wall space where the cabinets are for anything but. My aim is to work smart and not waste time needlessly on details that will never make an iota of difference.
Concern for the 'next guy' is valid, but I am building these cabinets to last.
Jesse David
Get yourself some self-stick paper tape (I don't like working with fiberglass tape). Stick it on, lay one thin coat of joint compound over it and call it quits.
It's easy and fast, meets fire codes and stops air leaks. Plus, if you ever remove the cabinets, you can always add the additional coats at that time.
We just tape and one coat it there. That actually can make for a better job, because the full mudcoat finish will rise the surface some at joints, making it harder to hang the cabinets and fit the countertop and backsplash.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,I stopped by a job about three weeks ago that I framed and on the inside cabinet walls only where the upper cabinets were was 1/2" plywood instead of sheetrock. Have you veer seen this before? The cabinet guy said that it's better for him to hang his cabinets and always has a place to screw them along with the studs.Joe Carola
Thats a good idea. I've considered doing something like that in closets. Maybe put a layer of 3/8" behind the drywall, then you can hang shelves anywhere.
On some of our homes we put plywood on the walls then sheetrock over that.
Usually the houses that have a large kitchen with lots of cabinets. It cuts the install time on cabinets way down. Sounds like a pain but I have gotten to like it. But the Mooney wall idea works just as good with alot less lumber used.
Especially with the 10" wide cabinets next to the stove that fall in between studs.
I put continuous flat 2x6 blocking between all the studs before hanging the drywall so as to not have to worry about where the studs were.
The concensus seems to be that it's worth a quick once over with the tape and mud, so I'll go ahead and do that.
Thanks for your two cents.
Jesse David
i have seen one builder here who uses white melimine (sp) in his closets no drywall and caulks the joints... says it saves him money
p
I've done that in a few kitchens, just a ~2' strip or so across the top of the room.
Yes, Joe, I have seen but never done it. I just put in blocking where cabinet plan calls for it. There are a couple of other places and reasons I have married ply and SR. The MDO ply has a paper face that accepts mud and tape.
I recall another job where we tore old plaster down to studs, and the owner was going to want to hang art all over the place. The old plaster was thich so goiung back, we used osb on studs, then the SR over that so he could place a hanger any plave he wanted and have solid hanging
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
'It "will never be seen" until you go to fix or re-arrange the cabs and you discover the previous guy didn't do the job completely!.'
I'm with you on that, and it paid off in spades last week. You see, I'm renovating my own renovations. Never imagined that would happen.
Here's how:
Four years ago I replaced a couple exterior doors in a rental home, for my then customer. After hanging the new exterior doors, I sprayed exp. foam isulation in the gaps. Of course, the foam was charged back to the cust.
Two years later the cust sells her rental. Another two years and the house sells again. Next door neighbour (who I'd made a point to know and get along with) tells new out-of-town owner to call me if he's looking to have the place managed and maintained.
So now I've spent four days in there, making good honest money. New owner's brother - himself a retired contractor - is also there working on things. We're cutting and installing nice new fir trim all over the house.
Brother asks me whether I'd hung the ext. doors - Yes -You did a nice job, they swing right; and good of you to have insulated too, many would not have bothered on a rental - Thanks I say.
All this to say that doing it right four years ago for a former cust (rather than pocketing the exp. foam money and saying f'k it, no one will know) has earned me the trust of a brand new cust...all on the same house.
Bonus is that these guys are putting thousands into it, I get a piece of the action, plus the pleasure of renting a much nicer home, all for some fine new customers...
Nonetheless, it is still important to know when to call a job 'good enough'. Respecting the budget and using common sense is also part of doing it right. I'm learning how to be ok with sticking to that line, which is hard when misplaced perfectionism gets in the way. Yapping away like this hoping to drive the lesson home in my own mind, once and for all. lol.
Well said, Pierre. Definately pays to not cut corners, but I too have wasted time in the past paying attention to completely irrelevant details - in the name of being thourough, but in actuality just being inefficient. Nowadays I'm trying to apply the "80-20 rule" - that is, to focus 80% of my time and energy into the 20% of the work that makes the biggest difference, and not get hung up on getting everything perfect.
That said, the tape and mud is going on today. I thought that perhaps taping and mudding behind the cabinets would be akin to arranging framing lumber by the beauty of its grain patterns, but it seems there is a much more pragmatic reason for sealing off the cracks.
Thanks for the advice, all.
Jesse David
Some day when someone pulls those cabs out they won't be saying "Look what this lazy SOB did back here to save a buck"
Now you can write your name & date back there.
Joe H
>>> "80-20 rule" - that is, to focus 80% of my time and energy into the 20% of the work that makes the biggest difference
It's supposed to be the other way around. Do 20% effort to cover 80% of the requirement (the easiest 80%) If you do as described you'll probably go out business very soon.
http://management.about.com/cs/generalmanagement/a/Pareto081202.htm
Jesse David
Your link confirms what I'm saying. Quote "Of the things you do during your day, only 20 percent really matter. Those 20 percent produce 80 percent of your results."
"Of the things you do during your day, only 20 percent really matter. Those 20 percent produce 80 percent of your results."
By that logic, efficiency is improved by trying to focus 80 percent of one's efforts on the 20 percent of the work that really matters. That's how I interpret it, anyway.
Jesse David
Pierre1,
I hear you on the not getting carried away with the perfection side of it, But I think that you learn from experience what you can call "good enough" and what's lazy or sloppy work. The problem is not enough people start out with the "perfection" attitude and to many start out with the "no one will ever know" attitude, and the latter is much more destructive and detrimental to the trades than the former,the former usually impacts OUR pocketbook, not the customers,(spending to much time getting it done right) but as you have pointed out, reputation IS everything!! and trust is a big part of that!! good luck with the new customer, you'll probably see more customers refered to you from this new one!
Geoff
If thats the case, for some reason i'm thinking you need at least one coat mud & tape. Maybe its a fire stop thing or maybe i'm completely wrong.
Depending on the situation the rock could also be acting as a fire wall, in which case it would need to be taped, but air infiltration would be a good reason to. It only needs one coat to embed the tape.
Tape and mud...Yes! Prime and paint...NO!
the only reason I can see to tape the seams is to cut down air movement through the walls. your going to have an exhaust fan thats going to pull air from the closest source. you dont want to pull dirty air through the walls.
also I make it a point to apply just a thin coat with paper taper tape at the backsplash so the tile (if it gets tiled) lays flat