*
On my way to the job this morning I was thinking about something many of us senior contractors think about from time to time. That is, why am I still running a small company, when many of my competitors are engaged in much larger enterprises. These are my conclusions.
I believe that most master craftsman(MC) are unable to delegate power to their employees when the highest levels of their craft are involved. That inability to delegate requires that you stay small, since you tend to control all of the major decisions during the progression of the job. The fact of the matter is, if your company is small, you probably are the MC.
On the other hand, if your employees tend to back away from you whenever you decide to pick up a nailgun(without the safety), you most likely have to delegate in order to get the work done. In some regards, this allows for the possibilities of expansion. When journeymen come along, or helpers become installers, you can create more crews and grow. This type of owner can spend their time running the business and selling the product. You can usually tell who the players are. The MC in Levi’s and a Tshirt or sweatshirt, and the Delegator in the collared shirt and designer jeans.
The downside of becomming to good and attaining MC status, is your delegating powers are limited, and so is business growth.
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Keeping HVAC systems within the conditioned enclosure can be tough without a basement; one option is to use plenum trusses for the roof, which offer a space for equipment and ductwork.
Featured Video
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Fine Homebuilding Magazine
Fine Home Building
Follow
-
Fine Homebuilding
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial Now -
GBA Prime
Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
*
Greg,
Excellent reflections ... I have the same "problem". Relatively minute details in workmanship jump out and bug the hell out of me. I'm gonna wait and see what others might say, but my gut tells me you're right. I GC for the money, to give to my family the best that I am able ... but I'm often happiest when I'm working alone, like on a Saturday maybe ... just me and my tools and something taking form before me. Aaah, bliss!
Geo.
*Hello,My name is Mark, and I'm M.C."Welcome to the group Mark"Greg & George, I new I wasn't alone. I think of this from week to week. What is my growth plan? How can I expand?It's tuff to watch as you give detailed instructions to be carried out and the flaws surface. Or to delegate a task which demands some thought process and decision making on behalf of the delegate, only to discover he has gone astray and upon asking, his decision has no logical thought process. More discouraging when the same person repeats the offenses at other tasks. I am content with a project of adequate scale. I guess I'm waiting for circumstances to occur where I encounter the right mix of hands to open more than one project. Perhaps I have more to learn about business & estimating to allow for this kind of slack. In order to generate the work and still have enough time to step in and make sure mindless, costly decision don't outright sink the job.I do read and hear of contractors running several jobs with sizable crews and wonder, how do I get there? It seems the ones I've had occasion to talk to or overhear, speak of more headaches, not necessarily more funds. Professional baby-sitting is what it becomes.Not familiar with the game, however not yet discouraged.Just one man's opinion.
*Bullshit reflections...People who can't delegate are simply people who can't delegate.They can be craftsman or they can be apprentices to the village idiot.Not being able to delegate does not reflect on any other quality that person has.Not being able to delegate DOES NOT make you a MC, being a craftsman who knows how and then takes the time to create quality work earns you the title "Master Craftsman".Gabe
*Gabe, This thread assumes that one really is a MC. The MC was attained prior to delegation responsibilities. And it is about generalities. There are most likely MC that have such a broad and expanding personality, that they somehow can do both. But I do not know or have I ever come across one of these extraordinary individuals. Most medium to large contracting companies have to give up quality performance in order to get larger. That is why they usually have a customer service department. To handle complaints. Most MC have a hard time excepting mediocrity. I stayed out of the field one year and ran the business and attempted to except most jobs that only made it to 90% of all there. A MC can't be made. It is a personality trait; an A personality type on the job. They see things others don't.GW
*Men;I believe the question at hand is really “How does a detail oriented person learn to let go enough in order to free up enough time to further grow his business”. Or something like that. Would that be a fair assumption for the direction of this thread?Because, I’d really like to get further along myself. I GC and run more than one job at a time … but I also work on my own framing and finish work, and I’m very sensitive to details which many either overlook or don’t notice until it’s too late to fix them in anything resembling a cost-effective manner. And it sometimes drives me nuts (although I accept that as part of what I’m paid for beyond regular journeyman's wages).I currently have a friend working for me who has for the last ten years been a superintendent for BIG G.C. firms and has run multi-million dollar projects for them on salary. And just this past week he was advising me that I needed to DELEGATE MORE! for the sake of the business.So … easier said than done. But that’s why this thread got *my* attention.You out there who have successfully moved from craftsman to management – What are some of the “control elements”, if you will, that you have implemented in order to keep yourself from being bogged down on-site? What elements need to be in place to assure that a level of quality that you care to have represent your name is still maintained?Thank you.Geo.
*Excuse the HELL out of us Gabe!i (Work in commercial, play in residential)??????I think your response is bullshit!What it is I sensed from George and Greg that I could relate to, was the desire to turn out a top notch product and not spend time and money backtracking to correct flaws.By no means did I interpret their comments as an inability to delegate.As for myself, I can delegate quite effectively.It stills takes key, knowledgible personal to shift responsibility to. I have had the privilege to be involved in commercial work. Hell I've brought hospitals and sea walls out of the ground. It's nice to be part of the big machine and the resources it makes available.I stepped away from this atmosphere, to pursue the trade I enjoy, as well as bring a level of personal satisfaction closer to home.Now, is there a way to achieve this satisfaction level while expanding? This is what I try to introduce, the need for quality people as well as keeping them busy. gabe your comments are welcomed.Just one man's opinion.
*GeorgeThe biggest problem I see in going from craftsman (journeyman) to management (contractor) in a given trade is that the focus of your business is different. When you change occupations from carpenter to carpentry contractor, the type of contracts you make also changes. Carpenters make contracts to do carpentry construction. Carpentry contractors make contracts to do carpentry contracting. They are completely different occupations and one has nothing to do with the other.
*Greg, it still milks the bullshit to death.Most who call themselves Master Craftsmen are nothing more than ego driven carpenters with mediocre skills. Sorry but that's a fact.There is no coalation between being a craftsman and being able to delegate work or responsibility. Sorry but that's a fact also.Now that you've admitted that you can't delegate, tell me what makes you a master craftsman. Have you ever designed and built anything, solely on your own that now copied by every wantabee in the world?I'm not being difficult, I'm always curious as to what makes anyone proclaim themselves to be anything without some backup.Who knows, maybe you are considered a master craftsman by others, it's just one of those titles that must be earned and cannot be self proclaimed.With regards to delegation. It's just another ability you either have or you don't have. No big deal. Has nothing to do with anything else.Gabe
*“How does a detail oriented person learn to let go enough in order to free up enough time to further grow his business”.Simple, you hire people who are equally or better qualified than you and you let them do their work with simple direction.Gabe
*Who's this us white man.It's much easier for a true craftsman to delegate than it is to separate arrogant carpenters or furniture makers from their egos.More often than not, it's not a matter of being frustrated at the level of work by others as it is the inability to accept the work of others as being equal or better than yours.What qualifies you to call yourself a master craftsman?just curiousGabe
*GabeYour comments are right on the money. I am a 50 year old carpenter and have been at this occupation for a long time. I have run across many of these self proclaimed experts over the years. I always find it ironic when they are presented with a problem that tests their expertise. Amazing how often they seem to ask other carpenters, who are not self proclaimed experts, how to do something. I believe that there is always more to learn and that the wise man pursues projects no greater than his true skill level.
*Well I'll be God damned Gabe,It's all so crystal clear now.Hold on I'm writing this down...> "Simple, you hire people who are equally or better qualified..."I'm not going to knock you completely off your pedestal, yes, at a point it comes to maintaining a staff of equals or betters.For some, I will not presume the situation of others, however for myself, I am in the early stages of contracting and much more comes into play than simply hire the right people.gabe, do you run an outfit which you have cultivated yourself? Or are you one of the equal or betters?Are you the one who is contacted to meet at someone's house, at about the time you want to enjoy dinner with your family to discuss what it is your crew is doing to their home?Is it your name or the fictitious name you came up with which appears at the front of the property which you take great pride in displaying?If the answer is no, clean a little better around the ears at the next schedule cleaning, as this may alleviate the pungent odor that only reaches ankle deep for most.If you are caught up in the use of the sacred termi Master Craftsman,Well how about I i simplyrenounce my self-attributed title, which in your all-knowing eyes I am undeserving.Hell, I didn't put that much glory in it's use. I i simplytake pride in every stage of work I perform. Even my invoicing must appear just so.Hail Gabriel!Just one man's opinion.
*As for you Mitch,Each successive job I have taken on has been of greater scale and I always invite the task which appears at face insurmountable.I thrive on uncharted waters.The comments from you and gabe, I feel are a disrespect to myself and the other gentlemen whom have thrown a i simple thought to the FHB winds.As can be expected some out there become very disturbed by the use of master craftsman/carpenter.I did not perceive a challenge to the experience or status to the rest who use this forum.However the archives are clear as to the unrest which can be created by the above mentioned terms.Just one man's opinion.
*MarkFor your information, there is an actual legal distinction between a journeyman plumber and a master plumber, a journeyman electrician and a master electrician, and so on.It has always been held by the legal community (legislators and courts of law) that the journeyman is the one who is skilled and knowledgable in the trade. Hence, when a property owner performs his own labor, he does so in the capacity of a journeyman. If the property owner employs journeymen to do the work, then the property owner is the master (contractor).Read the law of your own state Mark and you will see that this is true. That is why California law requires property owners to be licensed as specialty contractors if they contract work out to journeymen on property other than their residence.
*Thanks Mitch,I am completely aware of the laws.Now get over it and lets address that which some of us non-masters experience.Oh thats right, both you and gabe made us aware of our ineptitude as sniveling novices who are unable to delegate.Okay, are there other sniveling non-masters who would like to share there forever stagnant evolution aboard the contracting ladder?Sorry Greg, for leading this astray, I hand it back to you.Hey I think I still have a chance, I've just delegated.Ahh! The road to recovery.Just one man's opinion.
*There you go Mark,when it comes down to the crunch, you fold into a little pile of nothing. Craftsman....ya right, bullshit.In 35 years I've only known 3 or 4 craftsmen. None of them considered themselves master anything. They loved their profession enough to dedicate themselves to learning it for their entire lives and to share with others what knowledge they had aquired.Egos can be deceiving to those that possess them, to the point of convincing them that they have achieved perfection.You apparently have convinced yourself that you have all the knowledge that you need.Gabe
*Your problem is that your so full of yourself that you missed the point.The ability to delegate is not a prerequisite to being a craftsman. Gabe
*Gabe, You ended your last comment with "the ability to delegate is not a prerequisite to being a craftsman". That is not what this thread title is about. It is not about the delegators ability to be a master craftsman, it is about the master craftsman's ability to delegate. Some of my flooring installations are going to be in print for a coffee table/reference book for the National Wood Floor Association this Fall. It is being written by a three time national floor of the year winner, Chuck Crispin in Terre Haute, IN. When HGTV was doing their weekly show on the best in their field, he was the flooring specialist chosen. He called me and asked if I would contribute some of my pictures of border and medallion treatments to the publication. I need to figure out how to put pictures into my threads this week. When I do, we'll let the FHB community deside if I qualify as a MC. GW
*Wrong Greg,This thread is about "your ability to delegate".So you're going to be in print in a coffee table book, whoopy. Is this what qualifies you as a master?Guys like you remind me of dog, cat, cow, horse, goat, sheep, bird breeders who do it for the ribbons and not for the good of the breed.You've proved that you have the ego but it's going to take more than a few pictures and self-serving awards to make you a master craftsman.Sorry, but I just got an award for "telling it like it is".Gabe
* To all that responded, have a great week out there. You to Gabe. GW
*Okay gabe,It's quiet time.Take your pill, the evil master craftsmen have gone away. Inflated egos and all. Listen to the rustle of the nearby creek as worldwide competition is vanquished.i CONGRATULATIONS Greg,Look forward to your publication. That is unless gabe destroys any existence in an effort to subdue any self-serving quest for Master Craftsmanship.I wish I could describe how to send in photos, I've done it before, but it took some figuring. It has been discussed and you can find the procedure in the archives. I need to send in some current stuff to the the thread created in i Construction Techniques/Works in Progress. That's great. I would like to publish an accomplishment of mine some day.One thing we can take from gabe's earlier comments is if we decided to take the plunge to expand, it would take a virtual clone to intrust with the responcibilities to move forward and concentrate at the business end of contracting.As for the rest of what he had to offer I prefer to leave it out in the meadows where it belongs. Eventually it will benefit other forms of life through the natural order of denegration.Bets wishes Greg, keep posted as to the articles debut.Just one man's opinion.
*I don't like to delegate, but it's not because I can't. It's just that I'd rather make my living working with my hands than supervising others. When you run crews, you get into a whole different skill set. Sure, the opportunity is also there to make more money, but if you don't like the work, what good would it do you? Growth can be good, but I don't think it's ALWAYS good. We're all different, and I'm glad of it. And yeah, Greg, congratulations.
*My two cents....I think the craftsman mentality is, in a sense, diametrically opposed to the business sense mentality of the delegator. So it would seem to me that it would be difficult to wear both hats. I know I don't want to, my interests lie in making things rather than money. Am I a Master craftsman? Who in the hell knows. It does look good in a sales pitch though. Among my peers the word never arises, but to the uninitiated "I am" Does G.E. really make the best fridge? or Ford the best truck? Gabes right, it's all BS and only gets dangerous when we actually start believing our own particular brand.
*Although I am a small contractor, I like it that way as well. I understand my shortcommings in regards to delegation. I guess its because I like making money to much. Many of the things that I do in the trade only allow you one shot at it. If a mistake is made, you start over again and that costs money and lost time. At least if I make the mistake I can only blame myself. When I ran eight installers once and only delegated, the quality went down and although clients paid and seemed happy, they were average jobs in quality. I think that when a client pays you 80K to install new floors in their whole house, I need to deliver them a product that makes them want to dance on it. Although I direct my current crew of three on every job,(I do the things that I like to do), I answer their trade related question all day long. I only work an average of 35 hours a week probably 10 1/2 months a year and I like it that way. If I were larger, I would have to work to many hours keeping the business in order. The funny thing is that even though I am small, I know that I make more money than the owners of these 20 men operations, and have a lot less hassles. I don't have a problem answering my phone on the weekend.GW
*Greg, congrats to you for succeeding in your trade. If you feel like you are a master craftsman, you probably are. Also, congrats on your ability to maintain a sensible attitude when dealing with Gabe. Many in here have had to endure his small minded attacks, and few have endured with as much grace as you. Gabe intentionally structures his replies and posts in an effort to incite. He thrives on inflammatory rhetoric. Sometimes his arguments and ideas are good, but his method stinks. The value of his comments are diminished or lost much of the time as a result of his antics. Oh well, such is life.Your topic is actually a good philosophical question, one that will usually have many answers. I don't think any replies should put you on the defensive however.Probably, your assertion that a master craftsman needs to delgate is correct. The problem is not necessarily the inability to delegate, as Gabe suggests, but rather an insufficient number of qualified craftsmen to delegate too. It sounds like you have learned how to complete a skilled task, such as laying hardwood floors and have set a high bar with regard to quality. You then attempted to create a larger business with multiple crews and relized that the quality isn't there. No surprises so far. How many others have went down that road?Most accomplished tradesmen (notice how I cleverly avoided the M word) instictively realize that they will have a hard time building a significant network of similarly skilled people. By attempting to specialize in floor laying, you were attempting to garner a significant portion of the available "accomplished tradesmen" market. You quickly relized that you were really hoping to achieve the same results with less accomplished tradesmen. You wisely retreated and are now searching for answers.There may not be any. Would I work for a different framer? Why should I? I'm a strong independent journeyman that has developed a lifestlye that suits me. Would you work for me? Why should you for the same reasons?But we will work for other Generals. But not full time, on the clock. That's what defines ourselves as independent tradesmen. So, why can a General Contractor get us to work for them, but you can't get me to work for you? It's all a matter of organization. If you were spending your entire day, lining up jops and then finding qulified contractors to do them, you would then cease to be tradesman plying his trade. I'd then work for you if the price and situation was right. Why is impossible for a MC to be GC? It's technically not, but I dont understand how it can happen since a MC devotes his entire life to a craft, and a GC devotes his entire life to the craft of business. There isn't enough time in a lifetime to fit two lifetimes into it. Some try, many might actully do a decent job of it, but rarely will the succeed..kinda like a two sport wonder. Michael Jordan tried it, but we all know how that grand experiment went.So, don't fret too much as you plod along your chosen path in life. Many years ago, I chose mine. I've been relatively content and you will be too, as long as you can keep the two identities seperate in your soul. At least your not kidding yourself like many do.Good topic.blue
*Blue I see you're being your usual SOB self.Unfortunately, you're too caught up in yourself to understand anything that others write.Don't quote me, don't try to interpret anything that I write and especially do not try to explain my comments to others. Because that's the key word, you self serving bastard, it was directed to others and not you.I only said that there was no link between being a MC and delegating. Obviously, this is too complicated for your little mind. Now go back under your rock and stay there until I yank your chain.Gabe
*Gallagher says that most things try to be too many things. It's like the sporks you get at taco bell. It's kind of a spoon and kind of a fork but it really isn't worth a damn as either.
*Right on, Blue....Well said.
*Blue, you self-serving bastard, how dare you tell me i can't have it all?!?!! ;-)I tend to agree; i try to do everything because everything interests me, but i haven't devoted the time to be a really great woodworker or builder only. Some people call that dilletantism connoting a lack of focus or quality which is not the case...not a "spork", but a whole place setting of good silver as opposed to a single piece of solid gold flatware. Greg, it sounds like you are right where you ought to be, just don't know it because you are using the wrong yardstick--your competitors--to measure yourself. Congrats on your work and recognition; if i weren't doing my own floors i'd much sooner entrust my house to you than M'sieur. Now post some pics so i can get on with stealing your ideas!
*Hi Greg, Try hiring a master craftsman and pay them accordingly. Make it understood that they will be responsible for the entirity of the job. And reward them with a bonus system for making good. Have that individual work with you first and train them as an owner operator. Teach them your routines, planning, record keeping, customer relations everything as you would do it. And then turn them loose. Watch carefully and don't intercede unless its necessary. Support them with a good helper, stay in close touch the customer and allow them to work through problems. I've found that certain people thrive in this context and its a win/win situation. Delegating what? Authority and the resposibility that goes with it. That's prospect for growth and profit. Dan-O P.S. Blue, go have a hot toddy in the tavern!
*Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy- where do you find the master craftsman that will work for you Dan-o? Every time I get someone about trained they take their knoweledge and go start their own company.My thoughts- not necessarily in orderI am pretty much lock step with Greg and Mark on a few things- like it's hard to be a perfectionist and let someone else do the work and the desire to expand my work base. It's a tough call- nobody does it like you would so at some point you settle for a different perception of excellence or move on.Every job is a balance of time- cost- quality- not everyone feels the same about the proportion.I think master is a moniker someone else is best suited to bestow- if I ever become master of anything I will be the last to knowI'm with you guys- it's difficult for me to let someone else do something I know I can do better- but if they can do it well enough I get out of the way. You hire professionals to do it your way and trust them to do it.( be real certain your way is the right way or live with the results)waywayway- I just wanted to make sure I ran that word into the ground...last word- Gabe is bluntso's Fuscoand blueand patrickand mattand a bazillion others and so whatdon't have to like what's said to learn from it
*What I was trying to convey was the fact that ten years ago, I tried to grow my business and in the evolution of the process I realized that to maintain the type of quality I expected, I was going to have to be very much in touch with the wood. Anyone else that is at my level runs their own business too. I would have no problem running a medium sized business if I could get over the hump of my business name producing a mediocre product. I have tried over the years to find quality employees, but the good ones usually leave after about five years to pursue another avenue of work. My business is hardwood floors, not easywood floors. They get tired of being on the floor. Good Human resources is the key to growth for any business. It is fine with me being involved in a small business. Accepting the fact that others that work for me will need to be watched is ok. That is my job, to supervise. Like finished carpentry, hardwood floors are so much in the face of the end user that one cannot last long producing a low end product. I do believe that there are many master craftsmen out there and they know who they are. They consistantly produce a product that will stands the test of time, always going beyond the specs to make that happen. And they tend to work alone. GW
*Greg, I'm feeling a little soft today so I'll share a little eperience with you.After 35 years on the job, in an industry that only considers you as good as your last project, I've learnt how little I know.I depend on my foremen and their crews to help me get the job done, on time and on budget.What egos prevent people from doing is accepting that they don't know it all.Some of your comments remind me of someone who thinks he has arrived at the height of his career instead of admitting to being a traveller.You may be a good hardwood floor installer, but that's not sufficient to make you a master anything, much less a master craftsman.I encourage you to continue working towards that goal, but do learn to relax a little and remember you're only copying those that came before you. In time maybe others will have reason to copy you.Or you could be like Blue and be a master crapsman.Gabe
*Hi Hubcap, Are you askin' or tellin'? What do I mean? Or is the question sarcastic? I'm guessin' that master craftsman doesn't sit well with you and some others. Okay, pick a handle, craftsman, artisan, mechanic, journeyman, lead man and so on. But out with the "master". So you're a perfectionist. Hard to be. I always hear that nobody's perfect. Where am I headed..you already know 'cause you made the call: "Its a tough call.." We all (mostly) have two hands. At some point you need to recruit help. When the work piles up you have to seek relief. Sometimes its overwhelming and the "primo" quality standard drops to excellent.Sometimes you want to capitalize on an abundance of available work and again need to take on help. Whatever the case, the end product is going to be different than if your own hands had done it. The important thing to bear in mind is that the product has to be good enough. That is within your standards. You said it well in one sentence; "Every job is a balance..." When people are paid to produce for you they need to know what's good enough. I've seen plenty of "master" craftsmen fuss around with something for too long to achieve results that are way off thescale. Its a self serving type of neurosis. And it doesn't pay the bills. Like you say, find the balance. Another thing, people won't stay with you if you say , "oh boy, oh boy, oh boy." Communicating sarcastically or being facetiuos isn't good in business. You asked, I'm tellin' Dan-O
*Gabe, I have to tell you, after 23 years as a fulltime flooring installer/finisher there's not much left for me to learn. If I want climb the ladder any higher I would be headed into the art world. That's way to full time for me. I like to sell jobs that are easy for my installers to perform with my supervision. Occasionally, I have to become totally hands on when medallions have to be installed, border treatments layed out or some unusual parquet pattern installed. Finishing is a totally different animal. The key to success in that field is knowing and accepting the fact that there are limitations. I don't exceed them at any price. When one chooses a field as focused as mine, you can pretty much learn it to the gills in 23 years. I don't have any plans in the near future to start hand scrolling my border treatments/medallions. I'll leave that to Dave Marzelik and the rest of the wood art zealots.GW You were laid back at 7:52pm tonight.
*One thing I've noticed in the trades is that a lot of guys start out being perfectionests and end up building junk. They soon start to realize that most homeowners have a bottom line far below theirs. They're used to buying junk as long as it looks pretty...and they pick their contractors for the same reasons...nice office, plaques on the wall, BS awards from the builders association (that they paid for) all show and no go. They fall for the sales pitch.A lot of guys fall into step, but a few resist the urge to build junk and actually do their best, but it costs in the pocketbook. The low ball junk builders make the most money.I consider a guy a craftsman if he forgoes the urge to chase the money and applies his trade properly. If a guy takes his time and isn't satisfied until the thing is right, I'll give him a craftsman hat. Maybe it will give him enough pride in himself not to fall into the "F--- it, nail it", crowd.
*Jim, I have made my way into a group of builders that have found a nitche in working with clients that build mostly beach front homes or no further back than 1/4 mile from it. That client base is not as concerned about how much it costs, but how good can you make it look, and how unique can one make it to separate it from their friends homes. Here I can do the best job possible and get paid for it. If I left my employees unsupervised on these type of projects, I would be gone yesterday. That is why I believe that to evolve into a MC, you loose the power to completely delegate. There is no one to delegate to. I could only delegate to another MC sub owner, and I want the job and the money. GW
*This attitude that you know it all will be the one factor that will prevent you from being a true master craftsman. Sorry but your ego is preventing you from advancing any further up the ladder of knowledge.Oh well, too bad....Gabe
*Jim, you said "...he forgoes the urge to chase the money and applies his trade properly." I don't think you have to choose one or the other. I think if you do your best, you'll eventually find a clientel that shares your values, and they will hire you. And since we all have different ability levels, we'll all work for different folks, as we develop more and more ability.Now the person who decides to "manage" a construction company, running several jobs, or crews, at the same time, has a similar progression in the type of work they enjoy - managing their business.The problem is when someone who really enjoys working with their hands looks around and realizes they can make more money managing other people's hands and forgets they don't enjoy the actual work of "supervising". So they are not fulfilled by the day to day work and get resentful and can't wait for Saturday to come. That's one of they great pitfalls of capitalism. Many folks set out to "make the most money they can", instead of finding work that fulfills them, either artistically or by contributing to the society they live in. Many people think of work as a way to make money, instead of thinking of it as something they do the majority of their waking hours.Everyone has their own priorities, but I think the pursuit of money for it's own sake is a destructive path. If you enjoy your work, you can adjust your lifestyle to acommodate the pay. But if you don't enjoy your work, no amount of money can compensate you for all the hours you spend unhappy. And, I don't think you can really become sucessful at work you don't like, because your heart just won't be in it.
*Hi Dan-O.The question was rhetorical. Meant to illustrate my opinion - no sarcasm or facetiuosness intended.I haven't had employees in fifteen years or more. I use subcontractors on jobs too large for just me- many of them I consider to be masters of their craft. Been using the same core of men and their employees for most of the past fifteen years.Most all have indicated they like working for me- because I am decisive and very clear about what I expect.We communicate just fine- and hardly anyone complains when I show up in my clown shoes...Have a nice day Dan-O
*(sorry you guys, double post)
*Jimbo- another gem. you working on a book deal yet?
*Okay Hubcap, Thanks for the reply. Its appreciated. Your message is clear. Clown shoes huh....hmmm! Now I'm really startin' to get nervous. Gonna hafta keep an eye on you! Dan-O
*Most professions have similar issues. In many corporations, you're either on a technical career track or a management track. Hard to be on both tracks and maintain the skills of both. Corporations are littered with people who were good in the lab and then messed it all up when moved into a management position. Gotta know what you're good at and what you aren't. To me, that's all this delegation issue isÑjust one other skill that either you've developed or you haven't.One of the problems with labels like "master" is that they imply a result, rather than a process. Learning is a journey, not a destination. Herbert Simon, a Nobel-winning economist, speculated that it takes at least 10 years and 50,000 pieces of knowledge to attain any level of mastery of a field. I suspect it's a zen sort of thingÑyou haven't achieved mastery if you think you have. I also suspect that with the right temperment, attitude, and perseverence, one can approach mastery even if never quite achieving it. The geometry concept of aspimitotically (sp?) approaching something without ever quite reaching it.I fell for the tag "master carpenter" once. Hired a guy with that on his resume and the right tools and references. We'd hit a new task, and he'd jump right in and start building something, while I'd sit and read directions. Got a new skylight. He started cutting and hammering. I read. He mocked me, saying, "I've put in hundreds of these, so I don't have to read." Got it up on the roof to find he had done it wrong. "Huh, I've never seen it done this way before," was all he said as he dismantled 15 min of work. Kept falling into the same trap over and over be/c he assumed that as a master carpenter, he knew it all. As others have mentioned, he put his ego ahead of his skills.I agree that you're only as good as what you build, no matter what is on your resume. Also, instead of saying you can't delegate, just say that you don't like to delegate. No shame in that.
*Gabe, your out here barking because someone recognizes that they have climbed their way to the top in their specialized field. Your sorry attempts to insult them by telling them they aren't masters of their craft is pitiful. No one, I repeat, no one, is a master craftsman of every aspect of construction. So, your insistence that someone needs to be that, to call themselves a master of their trade is useless. It does open an avenue for you to insult someone though, and I noticed that you don't miss your chance.After 35 years in any business, you'd think you'd learn some basic manners. Oh well. Some people never learnBlueps, If I was a master crapsman, I'd be rich. I've seen a lot of money won on those Craps tables. Thanks for the undeserving compliment though. That was the nicest post that you ever directed at me.
*Blue I realize that you're still too stupid to understand most of what I say so I'll leave it at that.Gabe
*Geez, thanks again Gabe. Two awfully nice compliments in two days! Your shining personality always makes me feel special.blue
*Your welcome Blue, anytime you want a whack upside the head, I'm ready and willing.Gabe
*You don't have to know how to delegate to be a craftsman, but you have to know your craft to delegate.Gabe
*I agree with you on this one Gabe, but how can a craftsman delegate the highest technical skills of his trade when the guy next to him doesn't have the skill level to perform the task? It really is a catch 22. And when they do get the skill if they stay long enough, they start their own business or at least try to. If it doesn't work out for them, they are to proud to come back as an employee again. I train them, they try it themselves, then they go to work for your larger competitors. GW
*Being able to delegate simply means that you must be willing to turn over to others,whatever their skill level,tasks that you have done successfully many times--Probably enough times to feel a "mastery" of the task.You may be a craftsman(we would probably all agree on at least an outline definition of the term)and you may also be a perfectionist(a hard cross to bear in any situation,and seemingly more common an affliction than I used to believe)but this does not preclude an ability to assign this task to someone else. The difficulty arises from then having to accept that the task so assigned may not be performed to the level that you would hold yourself to,or maybe not even to what you would consider an acceptable level...You then decide either to let it go or correct it-by doing it yourself,or explaining(again) that the work is not acceptable and having your employee do it over.The main decision you must make is what is most important to YOU--If the highest level of craftmanship(at whatever task) is most important,then you must get whoever is the most capable to perform this task.Have the wisdom and clarity to realize this may not allways be yourself.If, however,you do believe that no one available besides yourself is the most capable,then it up to you to structure your situation so that you can do things your way.Read that as taking on only what you can handle and let your satisfaction be the job well done,and forgo the dream of running a big,money-making company.If running a large,successful operation and making money are what turns you on,then position yourself accordingly and put the same effort into learning the necessary skills for this approach,as you did into becoming a craftsman.Delegating will become second nature.
*gabe,I step away from the discussion for two days, only to find that your still dishing out the same crap.Are you sure you want to relinquish your crown to the "blue eyed devil" so readily?What I see as a common misconception is the refusal of the craftsman to delegate.I do not perceive this to be Greg's original dilemma As I remember it is to maintain a standard or quality, efficiency, and effectiveness from one project to the next. Now, if as a craftsman/contractor I have refined this process, can I capitalize through expansion?You did say all this didn't you Greg?His experience and the experience of other contractors I have spoken with has been, an inability to maintain the level attained without direct supervision. By direct supervision I mean on site supervision.Besides compromising quality, profits take a hit as well and now one begins the path of diminishing returns.And as Greg has pointed out the kind of personal it takes to delegate responsibility to, does not come cheap (rightfully so) and if he possesses the ability to carry out the task you require, they want to do it for themselves or move into the commercial sector as they advance. If only gabe could get over the use of i Master Craftsmanhe may be able to see to the heart of the discussion. I don't presume that Greg's mastery of his particular craft precludes him from being in the position as student ever again.gabe, why is it that you jump to this conclusion?Hell, if he is as arrogant as you ass ume, why would he begin such a thread, as, the ass umed know it all?As I see it gabe, you may return to your porcelain throne as the master crapster. It's getting so thick it's difficult for you to see things as they actually are. Just one man's opinion.
*Did it ever cross your ego encrusted mind to think I might be repeating the truth and your too blind to see it?Gabe
*Gabe, you seem to eager to offer a whack upside the head. Maybe it's time for you to visit angermgmt.com too.blue
*Nice retort Gabe except there wasn't one item in Mark's post that idicated anything relating to an ego. I guess you didn't want to use the crawl under a rock thing twice in one thread and your creativity is limited.As always, I'm entertained.blue
*Blue of course you're entertained. It's your lack of learning that should worry you.Gabe
*Back on topic: Have any of you read the article in the Feb. JLC about training your own replacement? Rick Stacy, the author, takes a long range, comprehensive view of training/retaining employees that starts with the important features in a "Help Wanted" advert. Past threads here have discussed the issues of passing on hard-won construction knowledge, and of finding qualified employees; Stacy's article addresses both of these topics as well as retaining the help of a good employee. He makes the point that if you mentor a person and she goes out on her own with your blessings and help, you've just ensured yourself a good sub already trained in your ways. The only flaw i could see in his practice is that it relies on the subs not leaving the area. It does require an attitude of investing in the employee, but Stacy looks for aptitudes and personality traits instead of raw skill level, feeling that these qualities will more than compensate for the time spent training the employee. Anyway, it frees him up for writing articles...
*gabe,With a little therapy you can overcome this facet of penis envy.You seem to confuse one's confidence with conceit.Nothin wrong with someone tootin there own horn.i Master Craftsman?I did not read into this an ego maniac, positioning him or herself above the rest of us. To me, someone who takes great pride in the product they produce and the manner in which they go about producing it.If we look into the meaning in which the title Master was achieved historically, perhaps I would not be so quick to use it. Again that is if today the term held the same weight it once did. And it would be perhaps beneficial to see the term reframed to be used once again in it's appropriate context.What a task to frame this word to apply for each specific trade which would receive global acceptance with todays ever evolving products and forms of constructing.Do I think we need to create an item as unique as a pyramid, or the first suspension bridge in order to receive any recognition as gabe has suggested?I don't need to beat myself up like that. I'm very proud of what I produce and strive to do better each day. As well, I am always looking to learn either new and innovative techniques or the way of the old world craftsman to better my skills and to make life more interesting.This is what makes this site so great and for me addictive at times. Besides the great information which is generated, it's therapeutic properties almost out-weigh the prior.Again gabe, things are piling so high, I don't think you can see your own truth. Maybe this isn't the place for you. Perhaps the title of the magazine should be changed tob FINE EGO BUILDING.Because through your prism, we appear to be a bunch or ego stroking, self-serving, conceited maniacs, only looking to get published to further are psychological disorder.Just one man's opinion.
*Mark, many in here share your opinion. Since the term Master Craftsman is not defined, anyone, including a greenhorn can self proclaim the term. Who am I to judge whether they fit an undefined, ambiguous definition?Myabe we should all present ourselves to Gab's feet, head bowed of course, and ask permission to have the title bestowed upon our heads. If we were lucky enough to get his approval, we should be required to get re-approval each year, or maybe each month. That way, Gab will be able to save his vile for more important threads, since no one will make the unfortunate mistake of using the "M" word.I love this silliness.blue
*Hi Mark, Other than my experience 10 years ago, when I did delegate to the 8 man crew and it did not work, I have had no interest in growing. My thread was just my reflections of the reasons why I believe it does not work for me. But it parallels your thoughts. I prefer JB's style; keep it small, simple, and enjoy what you can of your work. Oh, and I forgot; get paid. GW
*Greg, I just consumed a book i "Cash Flow Quadrant" by Robert T. Kiyosaki the author of i "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". Kiyoski clearly explains the qualities that define the differences between people doing business and self employed people like yourself. Almost every participant in this forum fall into the employee or self employed category. He makes it clear that there is nothing wrong with being in any category, and success can be achieved in any of them, but it helps to understand and know the differences so you can adequately prepare for the future.It probaly should be on the "must read" for most of us in here. It's simple enough reading too. Imade it through non-stop last evening, and I rarely read an entire book.Kiyosaki also explains and defines a business owner as Sonny does. At the end of chapter 2 he asks a simple yes and no question: b Can you leave your business for a year or more and return to find it running better than you left it?According to Kiyosaki, you are a true business owned if you answered yes.There is no shame for answering no. We all may be very happy in the type of enterprise that we endeavor in. But if you or I seek something bigger, we must understand that there are underlying reasons and principles keeping us from expanding. We either have to change, or accept the reality and take steps to do as well as we can for ourselves and family. The first step is recognizing who and what we are. You seemed to have grasped that. I'd send for the book immediately to maximize the chances for a decent retirement. blue
*Boy didn't those simple musings on the way to work blow up eh buddy?! That'll teach you to go an get philosophical won't it? In your original post you said I believe that most master craftsman(MC) are unable to delegate power to their employees when the highest levels of their craft are involved. That inability to delegate requires that you stay small, since you tend to control all of the major decisions during the progression of the job. The fact of the matter is, if your company is small, you probably are the MC. I've gotta agree with Gabe's original answer that an inability to delegate is just that. It has nothing to do with quality of the finished product. In order to consistently put out an excellent product, we need to establish standards. When you train someone make it clear what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. as the trainee gets more and more experience, let him try new things. Let's take framing a house as an example.Show rookie how to cull through lumber -- toss aside the crappy studs and save the perfect ones for kitchen cabinet walls. Do this with him once or twice and he ought to be pretty good at it. Next time, simply tell him "OK Ralph, why don't you cull through that bunk of studs and put the good ones near the kitchen". Presto! you've delegated!After you've taught him how to cull studs teach him how to frame walls. Let him frame the money walls (no doors or windows) alone. Lay out the lumber for slightly more complex walls and let him have a go at those. Pretty soon you're just laying out walls and he's framing them all. Show him how to lay out walls. Delegate to him to lay out and frame the walls while you busy yourself with more interesting tasks such as figuring out your rafters and other roof framing. Hire another rookie, and have rookie number 1 teach him how to cull studs and frame money walls. While rookie number 2 is culling studs and framing money walls, teach rookie number 1 (now a semi-journeyman) a little bit about roof framing. Let him cut the common rafters.Give him a raise. Check his work and don't yell at him if he screws up, make him take it apart and re-do it.Pretty soon you've got a lead carpenter and you can hire rookie number three and have #2 train him. Soon you'll have a couple of leads, and you can have two houses being framed at once and you can split your time between the two (be there for the tough parts) and getting new jobs.In short, you need to grow slowly so that you control quality. Ten years ago you hired a bunch of guys and sent them off and it backfired on you. That's because you probably had a bunch of yahoos that didn't care about quality and thought that they knew everything that they needed to know about installing flooring. Now you've got three guys working for you. Why dodn't you graduate the best one to crew leader and split your crew into two groups of two? As soon as someone else in your bunch is distinguishing themself as a leader, and let him train a rookie of his very own!Always stress quality to your guys. Don't hire people who don't have the capacity lead. Delegating work enables you to be a better craftsman Let your guys lay the majority of the floor while you do the decorative borders and inlay. Then move up one of your leads to simple borders...Lo and behold, you're delegating, growing and producing a top-notch product!!Dan
*Tell you what Blue, you stop using my name and comments and I'll stop pointing out that you're an ass*ole.Gabe
*Dan, I have been there and done that. In my experience, any of the guys that even got close to journeyman, left to get a contractor's license and try it on their own. One of the pitfalls of being one of the best paid floor contractors in my locale is that I make it look simple. It is too inticing to my top guys to want to stay around and collect wages. They don't take into account that I also have four years of college majoring in accounting. The army paid me to go, so I did it. As I stated earlier, none of the guys that got their licenses are using them today. They all are working for wages again at larger companies. I tend to go through a crew every five years. My current crew is 1 1/2 years old and they will be my last. I won't train another. Since my crews tend to last only five years, no one is ever prepared to move up to the border installation/layout level. Remember, I also finish my floors, so they are learning two completely different trades that have no correlation to one another. There is just not enough time for them to learn it all, that's one of the reasons why they fail at their own businesses. My current guys basically install the floors after I check to see that it got started straight, and I install the parts that I want to. In finishing, I run the finished drum belt after they have leveled the floor. In other words, I am not always around. They get a fair amount of delegation but it stops at the higher skill levels. Thanks for your comments. GW
*Blue, Cash Flow Quadrant. I like the fact that you could read it in one sitting. Must have been very interesting to hold that attention level. I know how that is. GW
*This is one of my floors. Red Oak parquet, stained individually in place, 6" RO stained border w/Wenge feature strip. Medallion made of Bloodwood, Wenge, Birdseye Maple, Bubinga. Alternate room made of RO Herringbloc w/two foot strip border and Wenge feature strip. Not a great exposure, the flash got in the way. GW I'm not a MC photog.
*Beautiful! It looks like redheart in the medallion ring, but what makes the two colors in the compass points? Two shades of bubinga, or did you use bubinga and redheart, or?
*Medallion close up
*This was my first checkerboard. Quartered White Oak and Walnut squares, with Walnut border.
*3" White Canadian Maple w/Wenge feature(this replaced Walnut as the usual feature choice), and nautical medallion
*Maple w/ zebrawood feature
*This one is hard to make out because the designer got in the way with rugs. The medallion/inside border followed the oval detail in the ceiling. The center inside the medallion is Walnut in a diamond pattern.
*When Jim Everitt was the Rams QB, I hand distressed his game room in his home in Orange, CA. My guys hated me for this one. It took 4 guys three days to grind this floor with body grinders, then hand scrape to smooth and hand sand to stain grit. But the designer said it was the best she had seen. And Jim loved it!
*Grind for distress
*Scrape to smooth. The attitudes were degrading.
*Hand sand to stain grit
*White Oak w/Walnut feature
*My favorite, my entry hall, in better resolution.
*Beautiful work Greg. I love that distressed floor.
*Don't know how to tell you this, but I was right, you're no MC, your medalion is off center. You got the basics but unfortunately, you've got more to learn.Gabe
*Gabe, I laughed on that zinger for awhile. It is not suppose to be centered. I placed it for the best view from all rooms. You crack me up. GW
*Keep laughing, but we both know it's not right. You know you should have laid out the parket floor pieces better in the overall pattern to better show off the medallion.Nothing personal.Gabe
*Gabe, This doesn't change the price of that floor bid. It's still $46,200 firm! GW
*Now you're starting to grab at straws and quite frankly, lacks class.My BS meter is rarely wrong, thanks to guys like you.Gabe
*Greg, i posted above asking about the identity of the two colors of the compass points--the shading: is it due to angle of grain, different woods, different shades of bubinga?
*Dan, you make it sound so simple. After twenty five years in the framing business, you'd think I would have figured that system myself.It always sounds so good on paper.blue
*Gregg, my hats off to you. The intricacy must require a great deal of patience or great boogering skill.I can understand how, why you haven't replaced yourself. May I ask how much an installation like that costs?blue
*Greg, I laughed till my stomache hurt when I read Gab's criticism. That man knows it all!Office guys are like that you know.blue
*Gab, I don't mind if you tell the world that I'm an ass*ole. I love your compliments. They make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.blue
*SG, The different shades of bubinga that you addressed are different shades of that species. I had different pieces that I could have used, and I thought that I might replace them. But I decided to wait and see how they aged. I like the variation, so I left it. Thanks for your interest. GW
*Blue, I charge 10.00/lin ft for standard borders plus sq. footage on installation if their aren't to many corners. The feature strip costs about 5.00/lin ft for Wenge. Wenge used to be cheaper, but it comes from the war ridden countries of Africa. There are long periods of time when you can't get any, so I buy in excess to have a supply. I needed 75 ft to do one house, 75 ft is all that I could find between all of the suppliers in California. Medallions like this 5 footer cost about 1500.00 w/ 500.00 installation cost. The checkerboard would be a doubling of the standard installation fee for reg. parquet. About 3.25/sq ft. as a premium. The fields inside borders have no premium charge except the stained checkerboard. GW
*Greg, thanks for the pricing info. I don't intend to start laying hardwood, but I'm always curious about pricing intricately detailed jobs.Two items: expanding and layout.Gab came out sling mud about your layout of the medallion. Interestingly, I also immediately noticed that it was beautiful, but it didn't feel right because of it's realtionship to the staircase. I'm a layout freak and am very sensitive to these kind of issues.I certainly wouldn't criticize you, or your layout abilities about that particular installation because as a fellow tradesman, I know that many factors enter into the decision to place fixtures and decorative features and many times the final layout and decision is make by those paying the bills. You mentioned that you attempted to place the medallion in an area that would maximize the view from as many areas of the house as possible. I might suggest that that approach sometimes diminishes the value of the artistry, but acknowledge that sometimes you just need to follow orders. Would you care to discuss the sequence of thinking that led to the decision to locate that medallion in it's final resting place?I'm quite fascinated with layout theory.blueps I'll get to the next topic in a different post.
*Greg. I've read your thread and can see how you would struggle to achieve the same amount of craftmanship by delegating. It's not impossible however, but it's not as easy in your business as it is in framing.You mentioned that you train a crew for many years, and just as they begin to believe that they can do it, you lose them. I'm going to suggest that you didn't lose them, but you failed to recognize that they had a need (the need to make the next step up into the artistry portion of your craft), and you failed to meet their needs. You could have negotiated a partnership, which allowed them the chance to make the step up, and still maintained the quality and the control that you needed to maintain your reputation. I'm going to suggest that you start letting your present crew dabble in the most demanding of your craft. Let them do the next medallion. Let them do the next layout. Have them start the layout, without you being there. It's that mental challenge that most competent craftsmen enjoy. If it takes you several hours to layout a complicated job, then give your "apprentice" the chance to mimic that which he has been observing. As you come in later to check the work and begin your days work, you will then begin to understand the limits that your co-workers have. You might be pleasantly surprised. Or you might realize that they need a lot more instruction.All too often, us seasoned tradesmen go about our business, in an efficient manner that shuts out the transfer of knowledge, sometimes intentionally, sometime unwittingly. If you have good men, and you are patient enough with them, especially in sensitve areas, they will master the craft. But it is up to you to let them.I figure that I can mentor and teach one man, maybe two at any given time. It takes most guys three or four years to attain enough practical and theoretical knowledge to get the job done. It might take more or less in your business but you need to make an effort to let it happen. Slowly.Start teaching your current guys to replace yourself. The things you are doing are human and you will eventually be able to make money off this crew, without doing the work, if you let it happen.It't time for you to add that next dimension to your craft: business sense.blue
*Sure is hard for booger to say gee Gabe was right. That's a poor layout.Gabe
*Blind leading the blind....Gabe
*Thanks, Greg, i like the variation, too, looks like you planned it like that.
*Did you medallion placers look through all the pictures? If the customer wanted that medallion that size- what exactly would you center it on?Was the customer happy Greg? Did the check clear?Excellent work- end of story.
*Good call, Doug. You gotta give the people what they want. For the last few months I was pondering what I believe was one of the points of this thread- do I want to expand my business, and thus hang up my bags?I remembered why I quit college and my desire to be an engineer-I didn't want to deal with the corperate bull, liked making my own schedule, and I loved working with wood. so why would I give that up to be a high-paid babysitter/office boy? Money? I make enough for me, and I throughly enjoy what I do.bottom linegreg- the pic you put up that was your first checkerboard- was that house in redondo beach?
*Greg, The checkerboard was at Big Canyon Country Club in Newport Beach. GW
*Blue, The most important aspect for medallion placement in this job was view. When two thousand is spent on a medallion seeing it from as many angles as possible was important. You can't see it in the picture, but there is a hallway against the lower wall in the picture that walks directly into the center of the medallion. That was an important feature for me. Also, with the medallion diameter of five feet, one cannot see what you are seeing when one is on the walking surface. The picture was taken upstairs over the balcony. The medallion is also centered on the corners of the wall below it. I rarely place a medallion. I allow the homeowner to make the choice. We lay them out over the floor to pick the spot. As far as moving the parquet to compliment the medallion, that would betray the equal side cuts, and equal end cuts that is standard layout in parquet. Remember also, the medallion in question is in my own house, and that's where I wanted it, centered on the elements that I wanted it centered on, but yours and Gabes points are well taken. GW
*The hallway that I discussed is in the upper portion of the picture. The medallion's placement was determined even before the parquet was installed, so where it fell within the field of the parquet was of no consequence. GW
*greg, nevermind...That entry with the checkerboard walnut & oak is identical to a house I did in redondo(minus the checkerboard).I don't know if you travel as far north as the south bay (torrance, redondo, palos verdes), But you can do any hardwood floors I get...
*Nice, Greg. Like Splinter, I like the shading of the Bubinga. Hell, I like the whole thing.
*WEW!One busy thread Greg.I hope you don't mind, but I threw it out at thei Tavernto see if some of the Breaktime, veteran theologians would like to add to the discussion. And I threw in the use of the i "M" word.Beautiful work. A great deal of patience and pride are displayed in your submittals.It took me a little while to catch up with the weeks activity. Interesting dialogue, and I must admit, I really look for gabe's name to see how much further he can manage to lodge his foot into his mouth. I think he's just about got the knee in there.He makes an observation as didi blue, however with foot in place, criticizes, as is his way.Hat's off blue, for your tack, in the way you choose to phrase a delicate question. Same to you Greg for responding without taking it personal, and most intriguing of all, the all mighty buck stopped with you.I can just see it, i "all right guys, when the Smith's floor is ready for the final pass, give me a call, I'll be at the house going over my paper work"Ah ha, something like that?Another interesting note was to discover yet again what we were doing before deciding on the trades. As with you Greg I was majoring in accounting, however looking outside from the glass towers, high above in the San Francisco atmosphere, what I saw going on outside appeared much more interesting. (referring to the engineer as well)I am so greatful for the basic accounting skills I learned, how others manage I don't know, other than to keep it simple. I believe you now understand how to get your photos out.Look forward to crossing paths sometime b Master Craftsman Greg.Just one man's opinion.
*Blue,Layout is probably the most important part of a job and yet how often we want to forgo the prelims and just dive in. How many F. ups would be averted if a guy just took a little more time in the begining.
*Gabe,After reading through the entire thread I want to pay you a compliment. A good piece of music is rather boring without a few minor chords thrown in, you are the Minor Master.
*Thats exactly my point Doug. Sometimes there isn't a really good placement. Sometimes it shouldn't be there. Sometimes the customers wants one so badly that you have to place on, knowing that it is beautiful, but probably not the time for one.I've did a lot of houses that had interesting features and were butt ugly. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I'm not the one to judge and decide what you or anyone can have.blue
*We are in agreement Blue. Have a great weekend.hub
*Gregg, I kinda figured that it centered on something we weren't seeing. I fully understand that sometimes our pictures don't capture the entire picture as I've failed many times myself to get the shot that I wanted.I also understand about the layout of the parquet. I've done a enough layouts for tile and understand that there are many different reasons that will dictate the exact placement. The diagonal orientation is especially tricky to layout and is takes quite a bit of time and skill to make it right at all the critical edges. I can fully understand why you wouldn't frivolously shift it because of the medallion.Nice work Gregg.blue
*Gabe, i don't agree with you at all. Your claiming that Gregg isn't a master craftsman and I see a highly skilled artist. You say that the placement is wrong and I say that there are many extenuation circumstances and realize that there isn't a right and a wrong.You say its a poor layout and I say its an excellent layout that obviously met the standards of both the artist and the owner.Sorry Gab, were still on opposite ends of the universe. If I ever get to where you are, I'm going to stop posting an seek mental help.blue
*Jim, so true. I always encourge my guys to take all the time they need to get the origianl layouts done right. I'm not sure how much preliminary time that Gregg would spend on a project like the parquet layout, but it wouldn't be unthinkable for me to have 6 hours in it. Like I said, I'm a little anal when I get something like that going. blue
*Blue it's possible to do artsy work without being a master craftsman. The floor layout and medallion is acceptable in many homes but it cannot be described as the work of a master craftsman. Sorry.A master craftsman would not install the medallion UNLESS it was perfect and perfectly positioned. The lack of attention in layout out the parquet to the medallion location shows and speaks volumes as to the lack of attention.What makes this work even less appealing is that it may have been in his own home. This means he would have had total freedom for layout, size and location.When I see someone post with the openning claim of Master Craftsman, it opens the door to critique.To support his claim he posted a picture of an average installation and failed to support his self serving claim of perfection.Blue don't worry about coming to my end of the universe, it's not much different than yours, you just don't know it yet.Gabe
*An old girlfriend of mine 20 years ago was and still is an artist in Laguna Beach. She was the best looking blond I had ever seen. I met her while I was putting down a floor in her parents house. At the end of the second day on the job, she brought out a six pack of some German beer, and I spent the next two years hanging out with her. She could paint photographs of animals and get the expression of the eyes perfect. Not just a stare, but with emotion. But she painted a picture of a female lion with what looked like a line of milk above the upper lip. Just on one side of the lip though. It was subtle, and I questioned her about it because it wasn't in the photo she was using as her guide. She commented casually that she could see it, and although I thought she should remove it, it wasn't going to happen. Her only comment and end of story was, " I just like it there". The medallion that I put in my own house was placed where it was with alot of consideration. I placed it where it now sits because, " I just like it there". GW
*MC status is not that important to me. Some of my builders address me that way when their clients are around. I could actually get a degree from The National Wood Floor Association as a designated MC if I wanted to apply, but then that just takes more of my free time, and who needs it. I don't need to get any busier. I stopped wearing my logoed T-shirts a couple of weeks ago and told my guys that they did not need to wear them either if they did not want to. I don't need anymore credibility. What I am most proud of as of late, is the fact that I have as of last week, completed the full collection of Fine Homebuilding Magazine from multiple sources in good to excellent condition, and I owned none three months ago. GW
*Too many words in the previous posts,gabe, your an b idiot!Just one man's opinion.
*well, lurking does have it's rewards..... i can't think of a single poster who didn't add to the discussion....Master Craftsman...i'll never be one...but i sure can recognize skills and abilities....blue has a good skill at delegating...so does gabe...Greg.. great work.. but you suck at delegating....and the nice thing about Gabe is he don't sugarcoat nuttin..which is why he'll never get the Miss Congeniality award... too bad..doug developed a work-around for delegating.. he subs everything and only deals with the subs who can deliver...you can only delegate to the ability of the individual....if you are trying to delegate a task beyond the individuals level.. you'll only drive both of you crazy...bring them along.. keep stretching the envelope..when you find one who responds.. stay awake at night planning how to hold onto them...if they move on .. continue the search..... i recognized long ago that our company was only as good as the sum of it's parts...if you can't develop the skill of delegating.. i'd be stuck at the skill level i posssessed... who needs that?and it never ends.... you get a system worked out.. someone leaves, you and the company have to adjust...keep finding and developing people... when you can't do that anymore.. stop worrying about delegating... either go back to a one-man band ..or get out of the business....my goal.. keep looking for people who will make our work better..both as craftsmen, and as businessmen.. so we'll all look forward to comming to work....b but hey, whadda i no ?
*Go ahead an insult me if you wish. I agree with Mark. Gabe you are so quick to judge someone that it only shows your own imperfections. I would like to know how many hardwood floors you have done or for that matter built anything with your own two hands. Probably, jack shit! Before you criticize, try doing if yourself and then post a picture so we can see how perfect you are? I bet that all you can do is come back with is an insult or you will just skate around the issue. You can't deal with a direct attack on your a**hole attitude.
*Hey Mike,I was wondering when you were going to chime in.I quote Jack Nicholson from the "Shinning" while belly up at the bar,b "Words of wisdom, words of wisdom."However, sugarcoatin is one thing, making an idiot of oneself is another.If gabe has been successful at anything here it's been just that in my eyes. The latter of course.I prefer it straight across, hold the sugar, be insulting if necessary to drive the point. Above all be intelligent.There are several names I look for when I check in, yours is one and it's good to see your post.One of the elements slightly touched on is finding people. It is a never ending process. Investing time and energy with the hope the investment will pay dividends. I enjoy just about every facet of this occupation. From the negotiations with the client to running a crew to excavate for cellar and footing placement. And oh, I cant wait to trim out! The art of delegating perhaps deserves it's own crown accompanied by a label.i BALLBUSTER, RAMROD, BUS DRIVER, Just kidding, or maybe not?As mentioned earlier in this thread, those whom you discern possess the skills, need to be challenged. Then again I remember asking to be challenged just the same.It is an important art form and responsibility, to delegate. I've watched as others do a poor job at this function and next thing they are blaming the help and pulling their hair out.Why because they overload with information and describe 15 tasks which will never be accomplished in that eight hour period.i "What was the first thing you said?"I keep a list of tasks, complete the one task I have just described in detail, when it is done upon my inspection, here is the next on the list until this person has shown the capability to exercise good judgment to completing the task as was intended, so that he can now take the entire list and check with me when the list is complete to pick up the next list.Besides unless I want to be the one hauling garbage or lumber, it's best that I'm able to keep an apprentice busy.I'm a professional list maker.You should see me attack the grocery store. A streamline operation of zig zag moves up and down aisle by aisle to the check stand.Greg I believe does not suck at delegating, it seems he is wise enough as well to have succeeded as he has described.Unless Greg you are blowing smoke up my...Nope no smoke coming out of there.Just one man's opinion.
*Sharp, Jim... ;-)
*Mark that would be "you're an idiot". But again that opinion would be based on what exactly? I've never met you and you've never seen my work so you're flinging insults without reason.Hope you quote your work with more backup information.Gabe
*I do not really have a problem with delegation. Last week, an employee with 14 months experience in flooring (7 months install/ 7 months finishing), got the drum sander placed in his hands for the first time. That is the most coveted day job in finishing, maybe all of flooring. Usually, the owner is running the drum, while the helpers do the back breaking spinning of the edge. I showed him the basics, let him make multiple passes in the center of the room, moving closer to the edge until he was comfortable, and then I left for the day, leaving him with the drum to level the whole floor, (1400 sq ft), with 36g paper. I did work out the kitchen because the cabinets were custom and he did not need that possible damaging fear. When I came back the next day, he had done a fine job. Most helpers do not touch a drum for as long as four years, if ever at all. Possibly, I have led individuals to believe that I routinely install borders and medallions. That is more of a rarity. It might be a regional thing, but most of my builders that routinely build homes over the million dollar price range, use small subcontracting companies to perform their contracts. They want to see the principals out on the job supervising the small crews. I can almost guarantee that if a medallion is to go into one of their projects, GW better be there. They need that comfort zone. I try to give my employees as much room to stretch and grow, but I have a keen sense of their limitations. With so few medallions and borders going in, this arena has not the time or place for them to grow, and my builders would view it as a dereliction of my responsibilities to let them "have at it" on one of their projects when their clients have been sold my talents. I firmly believe that allowing that would easily raise Mark Herrera's blood pressure if I was on one of his projects. GWThat's a compliment to your overriding interest in quality Mark.
*"Bullshit reflections"?Gabe, if you will reread Greg's original post you will note that nowhere in his post did he indicate arrogance of back patting in describing himself as a Master Craftsman. He was simply asking and talking outloud about the issue his past addressed.In my 30 years as a remodeler and in my previous several years as a retail store manager, I've run across my far share of arrogant people, both master at a skill or trade and those arrogant people who mastered nothing. At one point I also realized I too became arrogant at one point in my life - a point I'd rather not visit again, and continue to struggle not to exhibit such traits.About that point I'd rather not visit again. First, arrogance hurts other people and is it's viciousness serves only to make the arrogant person seem to be elevated in his own eyes. Second and the reality though, is that arrogance and the subsequent vicious comments, only exhibits the shallowness and lack of self esteem of the person being arrogant. Bullies like to attack at every opportunity.For what? One should ask. Contractors operate in a very unique position as business people. Our position as owners is unique in as much that only another peer understands our attitudes, life styles, management types and reasons, fears, failures and successess. Usually, even our own wives cannnot comprehend our deep feelings. These forums provide a sense of comraderie and understanding that is not available from non contractors.You took a simple and innocent original post and twisted it as an opportunity in an attempt to demean a peer of yours and mine in an attempt at elevating your own position within our industry and within the realm of this forum and it's members. That act is pathetic, and in fact diminishes and sabotages the value of anything you might say in the future or make in the form of a contribution to future discussions. I think you own Greg and the others here an apology if you expect to continue as a valued contributor, and I'm sure you do have wisdom that can be imparted to current and future forum members and issues. An apology is mandated and you know it.
*Glad to see you back but you're wrong about an apology being mandated.In a nut shell, the original post left no doubt that he was saying that he couldn't grow because as a Master Craftsman, he couldn't delegate.The bullshit part is two fold. First, no one for a second believes delegation has anything to do with being or not being a master craftsman.Second, including ones self in the brotherhood of "master Craftsman" is easier said than done. Words are easy. Being a true master at any craft is not. Most will never achieve this level and by his chosen examples, he has not even come close. I've seen guys with 3 or 4 years experience do a better job of layout. Personally I'm sick and tired of every self-centered yahoo with 2 weeks under his belt calling himself a carpenter so you'll have to excuse me if I tend to call a braggard's bluff.Gabe
*Gabe, my point is that there is no reason to debate whether or not Greg is a MC. Simply out of courtesy, - (You know; what we all extend to our peers) you certainly could have assumed he was what he said he was. The question he posed what not whether or not anyone thought he was a MC. Other MC in flooring will find out if he is or not, and can then call him on it - or not. The question was MCs capacity to delegate. I also agree that one's lot in life, or certification, self entitled or otherwise, has nothing to do with his/her ability to delegate. Also, every master at his craft learns something continually, although after a reaching a certain plateau, those learning opportunities may surface with less and less frequency, mainly due to new products or application types. Notice I didn't mention it because it was a minor contention not worth mentioning.The ablitiy to delegate is a "management" skill, not a "technical" skill. Some have it; some don't; some learn how and some never can, and that goes for both management people AND technical people.So I please refer you back to the primary purpose and comments of his original post.Furthermore, I cannot believe that his original comments and your post has taken this discusson to 129 posts about much-a-do about nothing, and is why I stayed away from it. Twisting his post and issue to another vein is, however, to use your term - bullshit.BTW, thanks for saying you're glad to see I'm back, even if it's only to chastise you. That in itself shows integrity. Guess what I'm trying to say is - light up. Lifes too short. Keep your blood pressure down.
*sonny.. was that a freudian slip ?...(( light up. Lifes too short. Keep your blood pressure down. ))you DID just quit smoking , didn't you ?good to hear from you ..even if it was only to give gabe a 'lil love pat.....are you back to the 9 to 5 ? (or 7 to 330 )..?
*One might look at this floor picture and say, Why did he place the medallion out there, it looks out of place? I'm standing in the entry taking the picture.
*The reason is that the homeowner wanted to see it directly in front of his office. He wanted the pleasure of seeing it where he spent the most time. I to, enjoy walking down the hallway from my office and comming dead center into mine. I never got tired of it.
*Greg, likewise, I recently completed a tile floor job in a dining and living room. An "L" set up with the liv. rm. being the long leg and the din. rm. being the short leg. The center of the dining area was to have a nice design in about a 4' by 8" foot section of a contrasting tile types and sizes. Since the table and chairs were off center from the dining room "nook", the owner opted to have the 4x8 design directly under the table and chairs, which meant the design would not be centered in the nook. So be it. Purpose and owner desire dictates design, not symmetry, since symmetry doesn' sign the checks.Mike, it was a mistake. Am still battling the Marlboros. It's a bitch! Have not totally win yet. Start working for my sons March 4th, 8-4:30. They suggested assimilating my business into theirs and want me to run my business as a division of theirs (with a couple of changes), do their marketing, PR, and make them a "no punch list" (NPL) contractor - 1st in our area. I first had to make sure they didn't just want to "carry" Dad. Pride and ego you know. They did, but value my marketing & PR expertise and look forward to the NPL system. So we worked it out so I'll be holding my own and accountable. Will probably work for them for 12-18 months, tillI get my other business up and running substantially. And no more working on jobs. I can also relate to the delegating issue even though I'm not a master at anything.
*Gabe, you are the only one equating perfection to master craftsmen. That's an unrealistic goal.It's as unrealistic as getting a logical discussion out of you. blue
*Sonny, thanks for you eloquent attempt to bring civility into this thread.YOu mentioned the word arrogance. I was struck by the irony that the arrogant one was attempting to project his fault on the non-arogant one. I agree with you. I didn't see anything in the original post that would indicate a self-serving arrogance or assumption of greatness. The original question just attempted to discuss a common theme among tradesmen. Obviously Gab hasn't ever been a tradesman and doesn't understand the issue.bluePs I finally read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and the sequel Quadrant Cashflow (or something like that). I'm inpired. I'm sure you've read them or maybe you should.
*Sonny, here's my tip for quiting.Don't quit smoking all those cigarettes each day. Just fight the first one. blue
*Well Booger, you're wrong again.I am of the trade first and management came later. A couple of years ago I went on a one year holiday and worked once again with my hands so that I could satisfy myself and no one else.A lot of small minded people beleive that a carpenter can't manage and others beleive that a manager can't build. When I'm "delegating" I stay away from tools in public but I still do whenever I get the chance, alone or with friends.Right now I'm a little too busy to play.I'm also an activist for better training and certification for trades and I get a little upset by the "good enough" attitude of some small minded contractors like you.It's not a matter of perfection, it's a matter of being what you say you are and standing up for it.I know it must piss you off that I can do your work and you can't do mine. But I still consider guys like you a valued part of the big picture and other than the odd pissing contest you may be surprised at the truth of it all.Gabe
*Blue, I'll try your tip about the smokes. Own and read both of the books you mentioned and have given them to my sons to read.
*I must say, there appears to be a beneficial bi-product (besides what he typically excretes) to gabe's comments.He has been the element which has manifested this thread into more than an unfluctuating stream of simple replies.I don't think it's the only way to spice up a discussion, however it served it's purpose in this instance.As Sonny was so wise to indicate, this does not last forever and we will tune you out, gabe.Sonny, as I have mentioned in this thread if not others, I have come to recognize certain names and their comments in this forum as having substance. Yours is among the select few.Inspiring words to read in your first contri to this thread.I hope that a horse, such as this one which has received it's fair share of beatings will not discourage you from still checking in from time to time. I say this because I think of those who are logging in for the first time or such as myself where a few months can go by between checking in. (At that point another call goes out to the cyber cops to peel me away from the keyboard and refocus at the money making end.)However, to read your comments does so much for the rest of us who may be struggling in one way or another and not feel isolated.gabe, as much as the rest try to bring you back on course, you still want to make a mountain where not even a mole hill exist.You say you are part of a program for better training & certification?How long before candidates become completely discouraged by your style? Where's the light at the end of your tunnel? Based on your comments, it's obvious the lighting is grossly inadequate from where you stand.Perhaps you are not at ground zero training these people, you just want to make it more difficult for them to get of the ground.i We entrust you gabe, to protect these lower forms from the truth, for they cannot handle the truth, that they will never be better than...God forbid anyone should proclaim himself as the i Master Ditch Digger!I'm sure you would have some choice words for them as well. Judging from the hole you created here, you may hold some clout in this arena.Thank's Greg, my blood pressure truly needs no prodding. 191/120 at one time.You bring a very valid point to the discussion, and one I speak of often when selling myself. It's just that, I'm selling Mark Herrera as your builder. It begins with my presentation and the fact that after speaking with me, I have generated a level of confidence and trust from the clients and that would be immediately sabotaged if a number of people show on site only assisted by phone calls.I'm not saying it is not an avenue of conducting business, simply not how I have chosen to market my business. Since I've been with this thread since the beginning it is one of the best points highlighted.At times the work is intended for a specific individual to perform.Well the lawn needs mowing, besides other chores, so see ya'll in a few hours.Just one man's opinion.P S Blue, Just received i "Rich Dad, Poor Dad"for my birthday. It was on my request list.I heard R. Kiyosaki on the radio last year promoting the second book and from listening to him, seemed as a must read. Good to read others have benefited from his material.
*gabe,Is there at least one wall which contains a reflective value in that glass house from which you reside?referring to post #126
*Ah Gabe, now were getting to the meat and potatoes of your distaste for me and my values.You claim that I'm a "good enough" type guy, yet my work is not questioned on site, only here, by you and your son. Incidently, if it is good, it's good enough for me. You claim that small minded (that obvioulsy means everyone else in the world except you) people blah, blah, blanh, but your the only one reading that into the discussion. And your an acitivist for more regulation to shut out the uncertified. I believe a monkey can do our jobs and yours too. Gabe, I admit, I can't do your job. I see your job as being the dullest one in the project. You run arouund worrying about safty, schedules and ass kissing. Your backside grows wider eevery day that you sit at your desk. If you decide to take a month or two off this year, you'll get fired. Yep, your right, I can't do your job. bluePs, I'm awful glad that you still value me and my cronies. I don't think I could sleep at night if you didn't value me. It's nice to know that we still have some value in the big picture. If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't know that and would probably throw myself off a cliff.
*Mark, how about you take 5 precious minutes out of your ego infested lifestyle and count the times in this post you have attempted to personally insult me.It's easy to attack but harder to defend.I don't need your hypocritical insults to guide me back to the fold of the boring. I don't have a blood pressure problem and I live a great life with my partner of 34 years, work in the best industry in the world, associate with great friends, love going to work every morning and love going home afterwards. I can't be doing too many things wrong, I'm booked for the next 6 or 7 years and still get to go fishing when I feel like it and can afford to buy a trout fillet when they're not biting.I don't give praise unless it's deserved and I don't bullshit. When I say something is good, it still means something.Guys like you spend so much time kissing up, eventually, it means nothing. You have no credibility.Like I said, do a count and then YOU LOOK INTO A MIRROR AND THEN TELL ME WHAT YOU SEE.....Gabe
*Okay Booger lets analyse this last drivel of yours. "Ah Gabe, now were getting to the meat and potatoes of your distaste for me and my values." I have no distaste for you, I don't know you. I do questions your values or at least the lack of them. "You claim that I'm a "good enough" type guy, yet my work is not questioned on site, only here, by you and your son. Incidently, if it is good, it's good enough for me." I don't know if your work is questioned at site, my son doesn't post here, but if he did, I'm sure he would get a laugh out of your site pictures also. I'm sure that as long as the house you're framing, has no spiral stairs, turrets or any other complications like a building code and such, you should be "good enough""You claim that small minded (that obvioulsy means everyone else in the world except you) people blah, blah, blanh, but your the only one reading that into the discussion."Small minded people are people who are small minded and no one else, now I know this is complicated for you but do try to keep up. Thankfully, they are a minority. You should be happy that you finally qualify for minority rights."And your an acitivist for more regulation to shut out the uncertified. I believe a monkey can do our jobs and yours too."Well, it would take a smarter monkey that any you've ever drank with to do mine. "Gabe, I admit, I can't do your job. I see your job as being the dullest one in the project. You run arouund worrying about safty, schedules and ass kissing. Your backside grows wider eevery day that you sit at your desk."Okay, we both know you can't do my job so you needen be bitter about it either. Acually, my job is far more exciting than yours, I don't worry about safety, I worry about safety and well being of everyone on my site. Yes, I do worry about schedules, that's called being responsible, by the way. Can you say "being responsible"? Oh baby, ass kissing is definitely not in my scope of work. Screw up on my site and it won't be a kiss you feel up your rectum, it'll be a boot. Don't spend much time at a desk, can't supervise 10 floors of construction from inside an office and I know this means a lot to you so here go's. Booger, my ass is still tight and narrow. "If you decide to take a month or two off this year, you'll get fired. Yep, your right, I can't do your job." Took a year off and never missed a beat. I don't take time off as a rule, during a project, but that's my choice. "Ps, I'm awful glad that you still value me and my cronies. I don't think I could sleep at night if you didn't value me. It's nice to know that we still have some value in the big picture. If it wasn't for you, I wouldn't know that and would probably throw myself off a cliff. "Well Booger, I guess I'm still a softie at heart.Remember, only you can decide not to be the idiot that you make yourself out to be.Think I'm going to loosen your chain now.Gabe
*blue,I read both of the books you mentioned within the last 3 months or so.If you liked those there is another book,by a different author you will probably like. I believe the title is Live Rich,Die Broke.the book is a little different than the title implies but it has a good life view,especially for a libertarian like yourself.good Luck all,Stephen
*Mark,Not meaning to butt in between you guys, just trying to help...Gabe doesn't have a reflection.
*DF I was wondering when you would add your bankrupt opinion.Gabe
*Nice to know you were thinking of me, Pork Chop. =)))
*Thanks for the tip Stephen. I must say that the sleeping genius has been awoken in me. I know I'm ready for a change. I've always thought along the same lines as the Rich Dad, but never took the time to learn about money, finances and investing. I always figured my skills would carry me. My eyes are wide open now and your suggested book is now on the list.blue
*Oh gabe,You can dish it but you can't take.Who are you trying to convince you got it so good?I'm jealous, blue got more folding of the boring...???I've got a better idea, you take five minutes and read your posts. You big EGOMANIAC, you.And your right, I need to act my age, but your like one of those raccoons we use to corner and poke around for it's reactions. Well, I'm going to have to keep an eye out for more of your posts. Like the raccoon, your interesting.Just one man's opinion.
*DF you know that pork chop is more than a vegetarian can handle."Vegeterian' Indian word for bad hunter.Gabe
*Oh I can take it, but I'm still waiting for it.Raccoons have a tendency to bite when poked.Just a better man's opinion.Gabe
*i pork chop is more than a vegetarian can handleYou are so correct: while i have been known to handle a man or two in my day--and i dare say the exprience was mutually enjoyable--i try to avoid touching dead pig, even with a ten-foot pole, and especially of the chauvinist variety. In any case, i find such a small peccary less than enticing.
*As usual, you still live up to your DF designation.Took you awhile to respond, I guess the fleet was in.I shiver at the thought but I'm sure the guys you were with had to fake it. I'm sure you boar'd them to death.Wouldn't know what a chauvinist is, it's not in my inventory.Can't imagine any member of the ovine family would lower itself to your level, much less over you.Gabe
*Ovine = sheepYou meant "porcine", yet another word not in your inventory.
*I stand corrected.That now makes two species that won't lower themselves on you. Maybe if you hid amongst the flock you might get lucky.My vocabulary grows.Gabe
*Gab, no one's ever died from a raccoon bite, unless the raccoon was rabid.If you are rabid, then that might explain a lot about the state of your mind(less).blue
*Mark, I think you picked up the same vibes as I did from Gab's comedic retort.I think I know why Gab took a year off from his regular job: his frustration at his project managering was elevated so high, he had to let the pressure off. So, he decided to try to make it again as a self employed contractor. It was the same results as in his earlier years; not enough money, not enough jobs, and not enough referals to make a living. So he limped back to his former place of employment and begged for his job back.Employers love these types of guys. They now know they'll never leave. And now, Gab seeks revenge by attempting to belittle those that are out here doing what he failed to do.Mark, you won't have to wait long to see more of Gab's action. He can't refrain, even though he knows his credibility takes a beating with each transgression.blue
*Ms./Mrs. Splintergroupie,It would seem you are a strong and tenacious woman, please do not take offense at my scolding of Mr. Martel.Sincerely,The Machine
*Mr. Martel,You don't even qualify as weak. You are slime. Your tasteless remarks are an embarrassing addition to this forum. Offer an apology to those newcomers who've had the displeasure of stumbling upon your filth, and to the regulars who've grown tired from it, or at the very least...discontinue your vendetta. Mr. Warren's original discussion is valid and deserves another try, untainted by your venomous advocacy.The Machine
*Machine,No offense taken, but a bit of advice: Mr. Martel is impervious to criticism and barely serves as idle sport. His vendetta has, however, served to guide several very fine people my way, for which i thank him fom the bottom of my hominid heart.splinter ;-)
*Woah Machine!!!!! Tell us what you really think!You have to keep in mind that some people need to denigrate others to elevate themselves. I think Gab's behavior fits that mold. He needs to visit selfesteem.com.blue
*DefinitionCoward: see "The Machine".Gabe
*I recently awoke with a dream in mind. I didn't want to share it until I had fully recollected it, and on my way to work today it all became clear. I was at the annual Fine Homebuilding dinner party, and I was late to arrive. As I entered the hall, my name was called to please come to the podium. When I walked up the stairs I realized that I was to recieve the Fine Homebuilding's Master Craftman's Award in the floor covering division. The finely dressed gentleman at the podium embelished me with what seemed to be an inordinate amount of back patting, smiles and congratulatories. The award was something to behold. A stunning pair of black ballcaps embroidered in gold with the words' "Fine Homebuilding Master Craftman". Of course they give you two. One for on the job and estimates, and one to show off on evenings out with the wife and friends. As I left the podium with the moderator to return to my dinner table was I ever surprised to see the name tag on the lapel on this gentleman's tuxedo. It was G. Martel.
*I don't mind you pickin' on my man, but leave something for me, OK?
*You're right, it was a dream..........it'll never happen.Gabe
*DF I'm all meat, nothing for you to pick on.Gabe
*I suppose there are worse things than being a pig-headed, ham-fisted, chicken-hearted, crabby, horse's ass of a Cow-Boy.
*Ya, a DF vegeterian.Gabe
*Mr. Martel,RE: Post #163Please elaborate, I could find no mention of my moniker within the definition of "coward" in the Second College Edition of The American Heritage Dictionary.Your source? The Machine
*My source was your post.It's easy for cowards to hide behind a moniker, as you put it, and judge others.I am who I say I am, you are a fantasy.When you use my personal name in your insulting judgements, you attack me personally while you hide.Coward.Gabe
*Well maybe you weren't paying them enough to stay and delegating enough responsibility. But, when one of your guys doeswant to go off on his own, encourage it and use him as a sub to help him get started. Extend the training you've got invested in him. (You should probably be subbing out all the finishing to one of your guys who "went out on his own" -- no need to waste your time doing that).Make it clear to your best guys that you want them to stick around and move up to the tricky stuff and that with your reputation, they're likely to see more of it with you than on their own.If you can't get them to stick around, there may be another reason that you're not looking at...Dan
*
On my way to the job this morning I was thinking about something many of us senior contractors think about from time to time. That is, why am I still running a small company, when many of my competitors are engaged in much larger enterprises. These are my conclusions.
I believe that most master craftsman(MC) are unable to delegate power to their employees when the highest levels of their craft are involved. That inability to delegate requires that you stay small, since you tend to control all of the major decisions during the progression of the job. The fact of the matter is, if your company is small, you probably are the MC.
On the other hand, if your employees tend to back away from you whenever you decide to pick up a nailgun(without the safety), you most likely have to delegate in order to get the work done. In some regards, this allows for the possibilities of expansion. When journeymen come along, or helpers become installers, you can create more crews and grow. This type of owner can spend their time running the business and selling the product. You can usually tell who the players are. The MC in Levi's and a Tshirt or sweatshirt, and the Delegator in the collared shirt and designer jeans.
The downside of becomming to good and attaining MC status, is your delegating powers are limited, and so is business growth.