Replies

1. 
   Mike_Smith | May 30, 2001 12:04am | #1

   *
   i'd agree with you on that joe... who decides who among is is professional ...?

   lot's of hacks make a living in the trades....

   and lots of very knowledgeable people don't do it for a living..

1. 
   Joseph_Fusco | May 30, 2001 12:20am | #2

   *Mike,

   I had shorten up my original post, but I asked who's to say who is a professional and who is not?To boot the forum is moderated by "professionals", what happens when another professional disagrees with the moderator?It just seems that that proclamation has more down side then up.Be happy let everybody speak their piece from bozo to professional. There seems to be more fun that way. . .

   View Image © 1999-2001"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle

1. 
   Gabe_Martel | May 30, 2001 12:27am | #3

   *Wouldn't have it any other way Joe!RegardsGabe

1. 
   allen_schell | May 30, 2001 12:28am | #4

   *Mike and Joe, Here's an example of a pro-bozo, I'm doing the stairs in a 900k house with no soffit vents....I questioned the trim carpenter about it, he said they never put em in....what a hack...feel sorry for the owners.

1. 
   Coolflow_ | May 30, 2001 12:35am | #5

   *There seems to be of late a few more of the "homeowner" type questions-not really DIY- at JLC. I think the red letters got started soon after some guy posted a message in the "Rough framing" forum asking..."I've framed the floor-what do I do next?"Haven't been able to locate the posting since then.Noticed today the "Professional only" is in blue and links you to the policy statement.

2. 
   Joseph_Fusco | May 30, 2001 12:56am | #6

   *Rick,

   I read that post the day it was posted. I thought about replying with "if you don't know then what the hell did you start for" or something like that, but just not answering was by far the best course of action I think.Like many of the posts here about how do I hold up my house while I cut this 20' hole in the two story exterior brick wall? It's best just not to reply. . .

   View Image © 1999-2001

3. 
   Joseph_Fusco | May 30, 2001 12:58am | #7

   *Hi Gabe,

   You have to admit. . . It is a bit "dry" over there. . . ;-}

   View Image © 1999-2001

4. 
   Gabe_Martel | May 30, 2001 01:05am | #8

   *Yes I know Joe, but they are trying to dry things up here too.Chat laterGabe

5. 
   Mongo_ | May 30, 2001 01:49am | #9

   *I could pass as a Professionsl A**hole.Finally, a place just for me!

6. 
   Keith_C | May 30, 2001 02:25am | #10

   *I like the DIYers, they are funny. I get a giggle every now and then on how they must think we jack them every which way(when what we really do is pretty much unskilled labor) They can do what we do, they sell all the stuff at Home Depot have classes even, and they did take shop in high school. They have seen every TOH and Yankee Workshop, got the "the most important safety tool is safety glasses" down pat. Ok.....we should let them in. But for GODS sake, let's teach them the TRADES, not the Tricks, those they have to EARN after years of hard work. AGREED? And not a mention of pricing, if they want that, get em' outta here. Keith C

7. 
   Ron_Teti | May 30, 2001 03:01am | #11

   *yea they dont have the exchanges thats what like about this site everyone can input. Joe great to hear from you again. havent seen you post in a while i was gonna go to your site to see whats up

8. 
   Mike_Willms | May 30, 2001 03:10am | #12

   *In my opinion, information is free to all. I think that's the best thing about this forum, and others like it. Pro or DIY, read and answer what you want to. Don't stop others from doing the same.

9. 
   Joseph_Fusco | May 30, 2001 05:05am | #13

   *Ron,

   I'm doing good, especial after the Devil's won ;-}

   View Image© 1999-2001

10. 
    Coolflow_ | May 30, 2001 06:52am | #14

    *Yeah, Joe-didn't get to see the game but the score sure was better than game 1. I got mixed feelings about this year. I'd like to see Ray Bourque get his name on the cup, but he plays for COLORADO!!!Since I'm from Detroit I guess I'll have to go with the old adage-the enemy of my enemy is my friend!

11. 
    bobl_ | May 30, 2001 05:12pm | #15

    *Wonder if the new owners of JLC have something to do with what's happening there?

12. 
    SamD_ | May 30, 2001 08:55pm | #16

    *Joe/Mike, Couldn't agree more on all points. Saw those big red letters this morning and was feeling a little disgusted with their (JLC) attitude. Although questions come up that are pretty pedestrian and sometimes bordering on a liability issue, there have been plenty of questions raised on this board (by so-called DIY's) that generated some good discussion. In doing so (generating discussion) everyone tends to pick up at least something- it's hard not to in the course of a discussion. Pretty damned elitest over there at JLC, IMHO...... Sam

13. 
    GACC_DAllas | May 30, 2001 11:39pm | #17

    *I don't visit JLC, I barely have enough time to post here.But I hate to feel I'm not welcome just because I'm a Bozo.Unfair!Ed.President - The United Bozo Front (or back..I'm not sure)

14. 
    xJohn_Sprung | May 31, 2001 04:06am | #18

    *"Professional" just means they get paid for doing it. Probably most professionals have a reasonable to great depth of knowledge, skill, and experience, or they wouldn't last in the business. But unfortunately there exists a substantial minority of gross incompetents in that category. And they do a lot of harm while they're in the process of getting weeded out by the marketplace.There are a couple values to having a mix of pros and guys like me. One is that the more we learn from you, the more likely we are to be reasonable customers. If we know where you're located, we might even look you up and hire you because we trust you from your posts here. The other is that dumb questions from us may result in someone posting a good way to do something basic that even other pros can learn from.-- J.S.

15. 
    Dennis_Loeffler | May 31, 2001 05:32am | #19

    *Hey Joe, great to have you back. Things have been quiet since you have been away, too quiet.As for JLC, I kind of like it. Sites come and go, but I don't pick up as much useful information here as before. If you ask a question about MDF, you get a lecture on the merits of real wood. The discussions here can be more interesting, but as far as useful ways to either run a businesss or buiild in a manner that is profitable, JLC is for me is of far more value. By and by, have you heard from AJ lately? I haven't noticed hime commenting on yellow and black tools.In any case, nice to see you.Dennis

16. 
    SamD_ | May 31, 2001 05:41am | #20

    *John- "The other is that dumb questions from us may result in someone posting a good way to do something basic that even other pros can learn from". - My point exactly. S.

17. 
    wedgehead | Jun 01, 2001 04:11pm | #21

    *Couldn't agree more Joe. I know I'm an outsider, I don't need to be told. And at least you guys don't tell me to my face :-)

18. 
    Pro-Dek | Jun 03, 2001 10:06pm | #22

    *I'm a Pro- cause I wear my hat with the bill facing front.Why?To keep the sun out of my eyes,and the nerd tan off my forehead.Do I get a red neck?Yes,does that make me a redneck? No! Do I turn my hat around and wear baggy pants to conform,No!Do I care if a bigger Pro thinks he knows more than me, absolutley not.Do I care if you space or not space your deck boards,absolutley not.Can a Pro learn from a DIY'r absolutley Yes!Most the DIY'rs I work for are computer Pros and own as many tools as I do. They can do "mouse magic" but don't know how to change the belt on a belt sander.Let the JLC big Pros have their forum,I like it here where everyone can give their two cents worth.I'm a Pro, I've got my own hat. :-) Bob

19. 
    Pro-Dek | Jun 03, 2001 10:12pm | #23

    *I'm a Pro- I've got a hat

20. 
    Pro-Dek | Jun 03, 2001 10:12pm | #24

    *If you don't like it read the back!

21. 
    Mike_Willms | Jun 04, 2001 01:02am | #25

    *Pro-Dek,I might have to hire you, just to get the hat! Good slogan!

22. 
    Stan_Foster | Jun 04, 2001 01:14am | #26

    *Pro deck; Nice hat, and I have enjoyed your pictures of your decks you build. Nice work. While were on this topic, I attached a picture of my hat for my stair business.

23. 
    RJT_ | Jun 04, 2001 01:27am | #27

    *Well said Mike, but what about the "by professionals for professionals" jingle that is slobbered all over FHB publications? Take a look at some of those items and if they aren't written for a near idiot then they have a pretty low opinion of what a professional is.

24. 
    Luka_ | Jun 04, 2001 01:32am | #28

    *And it's GREEN !!! Yeah !!!

25. 
    RJT_ | Jun 04, 2001 01:32am | #29

    *Now that I've got the first floor framed, what do I do next?

26. 
    Mike_Willms | Jun 04, 2001 01:39am | #30

    *Buy some nice patio furniture and use it as a deck.

27. 
    Pro-Dek | Jun 04, 2001 02:41am | #31

    *There ya go Stan! "A step above the rest!" Put that on the back.

28. 
    Pro-Dek | Jun 04, 2001 06:58am | #32

    *Joseph- they may have lost their minds!

29. 
    Tom_Moller | Jun 08, 2001 07:41am | #33

    *My hat has a Denver Broncos horse on the front and a many-layer coating of sawdust, drywall dust, paint, sweat, soldering flux, and who knows what else...They get so grungy I have to get a new one every few months.Always wonder about a builder with no dust on his hat....

30. 
    Pro-Dek | Jun 08, 2001 08:04am | #34

    *Tom-dress hat-for goin out on appointments- work hat for keepin the sweat off yer brow.

2. 
   Joseph_Fusco | Jun 08, 2001 08:04am | #35

   *

   et al,

   I like most of the people over at the JLC, but the resent Big Red Letters proclaiming the site for "professionals only" is a great big step in the wrong direction in my humble opinion.

   View Image

   © 1999-2001

   "The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it."

   Aristotle