So, in preparation for my new career, I called an insurance agent that was highly recommended. They quoted me for 30K insurance on my tools, and a million liability, 500K per occurance $1744 a yr. Sounded reasonable to me, but never having bought either of these thought I’d compare notes to others in my area (CT). Thanks as always for any input…
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Thats a few hunded higher than mine but different areas are vastly different. Some in California pay in the 10's of thousands. Here in middle america it not bad. But the coverage numbers are the same as I use. DanT
I'm sure we're higher than middle America Dan, CT probably ranks in the top three or four states for lawsuits among other things. Thanks for the input!
location, location, location ....
I pay $600/yr for similar.
U got an Erie agent in the book? Ask them to price out their 5 Star Contractors policy for ya ...
I went first to the guy that does all our car/home stuff ... he also handles my FIL's ... and all of my wife's families ... small town ... big fish ... that sorta thing. FIL is good friends with the owner ....
Then ... I used that number and call everyone in the book. Told them what I got and for how much .. could they beat it. No one could ... couple came close ... I went with the family referal.
Get your base number ... and start calling. Apples to apples. If your first numbers are good ... most won't bother calling back.
Jeff
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Paul, your missing one very important key ingredient. Without this information, we can't possibly comment and tell you whether you did good or bad.
How much business did they quate that amount on? If that quote is for 3 trillion dollars of gross business, you're doing splendid. If that is for $379 per year of business...you're going broke.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
Good point blue, sorry I forgot that one. I estimated first year of about 100K gross. So it sounds comparable to what the other New England fella is quoting but I think I will shop it around just a little more before I lay down the money. Great to have so much experience here to tap!
Paul
Paul, you're getting a lot of good advice...lots to think about.
Make sure each agent is quoting you for an apples to apples comparison.
Also, reduce that first years gross to a smaller number...say 40k or something near that..maybe as little as 25k. By doing that, your initial startup costs will be much lower. If you perchance do the 100k, they'll still get their money...but they'll get it after you earn it! The next year, they'll base their premiums on your first years gross.
It's entirely reasonable to expect a very low first year's gross...after all....you're just doing this partime. When you hit the lowest gross threshold, they just charge you a mimimun to start off with anyways.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
blue...
As much as I have come to appreciate all the time you take to offer folks here advice and support I do have to take one small exception to your last suggestion. I've been in the situation where I was underinsured and it can have consequences. If I severely underestimate my first year, and don't advice them (and pay a higher premium) in the event of a big claim they often have the option of paying a proportion of the claim. The rationale is that let's say I claim my tools are worth 30K, and they're worth 100. My shop burns down and I figure "oh well, at least I'll get 30 K to start again". Wrong (maybe)... they often have the option of saying "gee Paul, you were only paying 1/3 of the premium you should have been, so we have the right to pay 1/3 of your claim", or something like that. I forget the details precisely but in my current business we had that happen because we failed to keep them advised of how fast our gross was rising and we "underpaid" our premiums. These guys will look very carefully at any opportunity to reduce what they pay out.
Anyway, as always thanks to everyone here for the advice, I'm gonna shop this around a bit more on Monday. If I get to meet some of you at one of these Fests sometime, the first round's on me ;)
PaulB (until the tab for the drinks comes... and then the name's ummm... blue, yeah that's it... blue...)
Paul, thanks for pointing out that obvious flaw in my suggestion.
I'll amend the suggestion. Start with the lowest possible gross estimate. As soon as you hit that number, call your agent and up the gross estimate...he'll simply send you a bill.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, all of it is considered bottom of the barrel by Gabe. According to him I am not to be counted amongst the worst of the worst. If you want real framing information...don't listen to me..just ask Gabe!
I am also in Ct and my liability package is under $800 for $1M. I think thats because I've been in business a long time and never had an incident. I would send you to my agent but the rule here is "let sleeping dogs lay".
Also I do not insure my tools. Thats a big one. I dont believe you come out ahead paying them year after year when if you do get hit, the most anyone is gonna get is a few thousand worth of used tools. I'll take my chances with that and I'll also go to great lengths to protect my tools.
I think the last quote I got for insuring tools was $400. Figure it out. $400 a year for 15 years means I either have a $6000 slush fund to buy tools with or with continued success, 6 G's in my pocket
I do have a friend who says he can do better on my premium but like I said, I'm not about to screw with a good thing. He might do well for you. Call tony @ 860 229 0333
Thanks Maverick, I'll certainly do that. My concern is a big loss. FWIW, I live in an apartment, and had renters insurance for years with no claims so when times got tough I dropped it. "What is gonna happen, I live on the third floor, brick building, good security etc etc"
Well, about three years ago I got knocked off. Cops were convinced it was cokeheads since they just snatched up high value stuff and bolted. Could have been much worse but they took about 5 grand in watches, all of which were (Murphy's Law) gifts from friends that are no longer with us. The money wouldn't have healed the wound but I sure would have felt better. Anyway, I figure I have an easy 30 grand in tools and one crackhead or careless idiot starting a fire and game's over. But I hear the logic in your approach as well...
Paul
my tool inventory is worth well over 50K. none of it is ever at the same place at the same time and if I was gonna get hit I doubt someone would take most of the stuff they found. A lot of my equipment is costly but wouldnt bring much on the street.
If I were a thief I would grab the newest looking stuff with handles and easy to carry and hide or I would grab one big item and run. Things that I could fence, sell or pawn quick. That narrows it down to a few hundred in tools, maybe a G note or two. Then subtract your deductible.
I just cant see paying 4 bills a year. And if I made a loss claim my liability insurance would go up too. not very cost effective.
If you get ripped off that means you are'nt vigilant enough. Dont let it happen again.
paul.. our GL is per $1000 of payroll....... $21.59 ( 2%)
include GL job ( $1 million ea occurence, $2 mill. aggregate)
$10k tools, $10k office
plus a $1 million umbrella for $474 flat premium
then we have our WC and our Business Auto.... estimated premium for the comming year... $16K... of course.. most of that is WC
our before discount WC rates / $100 ( net rates )
are: #5645_ Carp 1 or 2 family dwellings.... $18.83 ( $16.13 net )
# 8810_clerical office.... $0.56 ($0.48)
#5606 const. supt. $4.83 ($4.11)
our discount & experince mods reduce those rates to 85%
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Holyyyyyyyyy smokes!!! 16 % WC? I expected high but that's insane. Of course I have a roofer friend who apparently had a claim and he tells me his is nearly 50% so I suppose it's all relative. Small consolation...
Paul, I am also a carpenter in New England and have 2 million/1 mil per on my liability. Too many houses are worth more than 500K, and the extra cost is minimal. I pay about $1600 a year as an independent contractor, gross receipts around 100K.
I think I was quoted $1200 or so for the 500/1mil policy.
Costs me $518 a year for worker's comp, because I often sub to other contractors and they require me to have it. It's a joke, but a cost of doing business.
I don't have insurance on my tools. Definately a good idea. Do you know how much of the cost of the policy is for the tool insurance?
my tool rider is something like $25/ $10 or $15K ....
way cheap.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Jeff, that's $25.00 per $10K or $15K coverage? Per year? Wow, I really need to visit my insurance agent.
yup ...
forget the actual ... but it's dirt cheap.
Mine had something about "tools up to" or "only one tool over" a certain value ... like $500 .... I said that didn't do me much good ... my agent rewrote it so I could actually collect if my stuff valued over $500 per piece was all stolen at once.
I asked alot of specific questions before I signed ...
like ... OK ... my $1500 break and my $500 table say ... plus ... my busket boss "valued" at $300 and my $300 chop saw are all missing .... is that all covered ...
Ok .. now ... my ... etc.
OK .. now ... I parked the van around the customers garage ... rolled up the windows buy didn't lock the doors ... now Joe rides us to lunch .. and when I get back ...
My agent hated me ... but I got the coverage I wanted!
btw ... my base rates covered "no roofing" ... until I made him write in "limited roofing" .... and that ... covers anything done on a ladder too!
Jeff
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Thanks Jeff. I printed that out to take with me. This red tape stuff makes my head spin. Better to deal with it than risk losing all my toys, I mean tools, though!
Sorry Mike I don't have that information yet. One thing I have to investigate is whether this covers theft or loss from a job site or truck. Once I have a copy of the policy to review I'll let you know the details.
Paul
ask them if it is an "experience rated" policy.
If it is then your rates will be higher at the beginning and lower later if you have no claims.
"I was glad that when everything finally hit the fan I was holed up in a little beer joint in Robstown, Texas called the El Gato Negro."