I’m guilty of starting a thread which generated some bickering between HO/DIYers and GC’s. Now if you want to read something REALLY depressing on the question of who is to do the work, look at this article from the New York Times on immigrant day laborers who hang around Home Depots hoping to snag a job.
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I clicked on the link. All I got was a big ol' form to fill out for getting a membership or whatever. No article. I guess that was sort of depressing in itself.
Sorry, Mark. When I click, the article comes up. If you send me your email address I can post it directly to you.
I overheard some Trolls talking a home owner into paying them to install a new water heater. They were giving him @#$% advice. The HO asked which brand/model was best? - Any one. The HO asked about the wait for hot water to the faucet - Oh, just turn the temperature all of the way up on the boiler. The way the HO was dressed, he could afford to have the TOH crew come for a custom installation. The Trolls are supposedly more obvious late Sundays, looking for the frantic DIY-Wannabe's who's weekend project has hit a snag or three....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
Not like the home owner would have recieved much better advice by going into home depot though lolView Image
Some of my favorite parts of the article
What the company hopes to prevent at its 1,400 locations is disorder. Whenever a contractor or homemaker calls on the men, a stampede ensues. The wage is nonnegotiable, an invisible floor has been established at no less than $10 an hour, though one Armenian contractor recently tried to play the men's stomachs against their allegiances.
"That's too much," he said with a blank, oddly aggressive smile, standing in Sunset Boulevard, waiting for the crack in solidarity. A few men did consider taking up his offer to paint a house for $40, until the contractor insisted that they come with their own truck. The contractor was hooted off the corner.
"Those Mexican guys say they can do everything, but they're really just farmers," said Cristiano Moricci, a homeowner loading lumber into his truck. "I tried them before. They're only good for stuff like digging a hole, and I'll do that myself
I swear reporters find the most ignorant idiots to quote for papers and news cast
It is sad people have to stand on a corner and ask for work but at least they are asking for work and not a handout.
Edited 2/12/2003 3:15:24 PM ET by CAG
CAG, what was wrong with that quote? Basically, that quote tells me that he has previously tried to hire "skilled" labor in the past and he has found that the "skill" aspect was hard to come by. Is that wrong?
Edited 2/16/2003 4:14:49 PM ET by MIWUK
CAG, who do you think those illegals are? Doctors & school teachers who couldn't make it in Mexico? They are peasant Indian farmers mostly, unless you're getting a different crowd in your part of the country.
Grew up on farms or small towns, many lived with no running water in shacks with dirt floors. They are not college grads down on their luck.
Joe H
Maybe first time I've ever disagreed with you Joe, maybe I read or misread it wrong, but:
"peasant Indian farmers"
The meaning of that quote has lots of implication, possibly negative, but mostly positive to me, as in the 60's movie "magnificent 7 ".
Were not the "peasant Indian farmers" in that movie willing to risk all for a better life, in a different way in the movie but today just like my (our) great great "peasant German (or Irish or Scot or Polish, et. al) farmer..." ancestors when they moved here also??
Edit PS:, I ain't no bleedin' heart liberal, and think PC is a pile of crap.
Edited 2/15/2003 11:28:30 PM ET by JUNKHOUND
Art, PC it ain't, and the Magnificent 7 it ain't either. But from what I remember of the movie, the level of technology is about the same. Skilled peasant farmers that can't feed their families arrive here somehow, and they're looking for work.
They do know how to dig a hole, they are willing to work damned hard, but they are not skilled tradesmen. I've been where they live, and some are damned clever at surviving with very little, but that doesn't make them all worth $10 an hour. Which is about the going rate here, too for day laborers.
Enthusiasm doesn't necessarily ensure success, and here there are way too many of them. They wait for work in the mornings, and as the day progresses many who don't get picked up turn to cerveza. Bud Light, yuck, is the suds of choice around here. Same thing repeats daily, more illegals also arrive daily.
Don't have an answer, although maybe if The Department of Homeland Security took their frigging duct tape down to the border and plugged some of the larger holes things would change for the better.
This is what I see, every day of the week. Illegals standing on the corners, hanging out in front of the 7-11s, Home Depot, the rental yards, local hamburger joint.
Magnificent 7 NOT!
Joe H
Informative post .
"cerveza." What is this ? Its not in my english dictionary.
Tim Mooney
My guess is it's a mexican word for beer.Half of good living is staying out of bad situations.
The other...proper application of risk.
Tim & REZ, you guys are on another planet if you no comprende cerveza. It is indeed beer, and Bud Light is the beer of choice for many of them.
They buy the large cans, 16 oz or the larger ones, and drink them while hanging around the outside stores. Many who do work also hit the store on the way home for a big one.
Getting into my local 7-11 store reguires walking a gauntlet of spitting (It's a cultural thing) men. Women don't seem to like it, go figure?
The local HD's don't allow them on the property, but they are on the curb in front, or as close as they dare. Rental yards have varying tolerance zones, as do other businesses. The only local real lumber yard does not allow them on the property. Some seem to have no rules and these guys are in your face as you pull in. Any pick up truck is swarmed.
There are some City run day laborer centers here, but they require proof of legal residency. This leaves the majority of these guys standing in the street somewhere as they are here illegally.
Actually, that's not true, some cities down't care if they are legal or not. We have a lot of look the other way people in the government, from DC on down. If we didn't, we wouldn't have this problem.
Joe H
Wow, I gotta get out more. Haven't seen anything like this in any of the places I've lived. Things like this can really color one's perception on what the world's like, and what's a problem and what isn't a problem.
When I did roofing in Florida thirty years ago, almost any town square in the early morning was the place to pick up your day labor. It was a cultutral institution that seems to have changed somewhat.
When we looked for temp help that way, it was always inportant to look for red lace in the whites of the eyes. it could be dangerous to hire a hung over vino to tear shingles off but after awhile, you could recognize the good workers from past experience or the way they carried themselves and how early they posted themselves.
For a couple hours of cleanup on the ground you could get a leftover man for five bucks and a bottle with a screw-on cap after the job was done...
Excellence is its own reward!
All I can say is God bless em! All the crews on my houses are Mexicans and I couldn't be happier. I don't pay them less than I would the next trade. Like all trades, they will do the work you require of them as long as you do your job of supervising them properly. I've used day labor often with good results. They mostly don't speak English so I learned Spanish. At least enough to get by. I buy them lunch and maybe a beer on the way home. I admire people that go to so much trouble to try and earn a living instead of stealing or looking for a handout. Viva La Raza!! BTW, the original Texans were Mexicans. Welcome back!
Edited 2/18/2003 1:33:50 AM ET by Bill
Joe,
Im not saying they are qualified, but to dismiss all of them by saying there only good at digging holes is different matter. The main problem I had was the guy trying to get the guys to paint a house for 40 bucks.View ImageGo Jayhawks
Well I'll put my two cent's worth in.
I did work on a job where the GC at the time had highered a couple of Mexican workers. They didn't speak English very well but they we're some of the hardest working laborers that I had ever been around before.
Thier jobs back in Mexico...One was a true Cowboy on a 10,000 acre ranch and the other was a School teacher at one their largest schools in their area.
Why did they leave?
They could make more in a month as a loborer here in the US than they could make in 6 months to a year in Mexico.
I guess I'll put my two cents in on this this thread with a little first hand knowledge. I have several mexican guys who work with us and not as laborers either. We have taught these guys to run crown, base and chair rail with coped corners and as good a fit as you could ask for. I have a crew that can hang cabinets with very little supervision and even read the plans a little. They show up every day on time and almost all of these guys will work every saturday if I have the work. Compared to the "crackhead" white boys we've hired in the past they are wonderful.We do get some grief from the GC's occasionally about the Mexicans doing trim. Everyone seems OK with them being laborers but some people don't seem to want them doing "skilled" work.
I think anyone can learn anything that they want to.
And that your willing to teach.
The crackheads only want to show up to make enough for thier next fix.
One reason I try to do as much of my own work as possible is to control the access of strangers to my property. If people don't know the layout of your house, or your security system, it is much more difficult for them or their friends to come back and rob you later. That is why I only hire people who were personally recommended by someone who had work done by them, and why I had the major stuff done prior to our moving in. That crackhead who only shows up when he needs a fix might also consider coming back to rob a place when he needs a fix and no work is available. Or who is to say they won't try to disable an alarm sensor or two while in the house. For that reason, I'd especially never hire someone from in front of a 7-11. They might be a great worker for the $$, but the risk of them also being a criminal is just too great. Face it, if they are here illegally, they don't think to much of our legal system.
Geeezzzzeeeeus!