Three season “sunroom” or screened porch
We are considering a design for a room, and whether to do it as a screened porch, or to add to cost and make it a “three season” “sunroom.”
Do you have any experience with rooms such as these, not heated in winter?
Our “summer,” the time of year when you can feel comfy in just a cotton tee shirt, lasts from about June 20 to September 10. Less than three months.
It is cool enough in mornings and evenings during that time, to often require another layer, even fleece, to make things right.
That means that a screened porch is a one-season room.
If we throw some insulation in the envelope, and do windows instead of screens, and maybe put an electric heating mat under the tile floor finish, we can extend the use of the room by four or five weeks both ends, and get a lot more use.
Or, do we just heat the doggone thing?
Edited 7/27/2009 1:29 pm ET by Gene_Davis
Replies
Hmmm . . . Depending on location, orientation to the sun, etc., I'd consider a well insulated, high mass floor, like tile over concrete, to take advantage of whatever heat gain you can get in the off season.
But for not a whole lot of extra work/money, you could include some PEX in the slab, and leave the option for auxiliary heating later on if needed/desired. Could be as simple as a small water heater setup. Heck, if you're going to the expense/trouble of full insulation and windows, the heat is a pretty small incremental cost.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
We have a screened porch (8' x 24') and recently added inexpensive, single glazed, double hung windows to replace the screens. They are pretty big units, about 48" OC. When open, we get a nice screen porch effect. When closed, they make the room very usable on sunny days even in the winter, but the room is on the south side, so we get a good deal of solar gain. In fact, on sunny days, we open the french doors into the house to get the "free" heat.
In winter, we keep some plants out there. It gets cold, maybe 20 degrees when it is -20 outside. The roof was fairly well insulated about 10 years ago, the floor and wall, not much. Our climate is similar to yours, maybe a bit warmer in winter, but not much.
I would definitely do it again, but the south exposure is a big help.
Edited 7/27/2009 2:03 pm ET by smslaw
We built an 18'x18' cathedral ceilinged sunroom over a crawl space off the back of our house in 1988, insulated the #### out of it #only fiberglass available back then#, used housewrap and caulk, installed walls of Pella casements #14 in all#, 2 Pella operating skylights, and a Pella French door to the outside deck #spent a fortune; my impression - they're not worth it#. Installed hydronic baseboard to heat the place.
Never got comfortably warm in the middle of winter #Shoreline in CT# although the heating system could run and run and run all day long. Rest of the house was fine, the sunroom was cool at best. We found we used it on Christmas and then from Memorial Day to Labor Day.
I finally disconnected the hydronic heating system to the sunroom since I was just wasting money - lots of money since heating costs went up. I'd like to install a hot air system running off the hot water from the boiler but haven't gotten around to it. I first want to have foam sprayed in under the floor hoping that might help things stay warm. But, maybe it won't. So, I hesitate and continue use it as an expensive part of 3 season sun room.
Check out Monray WindowWalls
I have a three season porch. Me and the DW love it. We are in it all summer with the windows open. In the fall and spring when it is in the 50 to 60 temp range, we turn on a little space heater and it does the trick. It is a great addition to the house.
Gene,
Have you considered Rolling vinyl windows? You can do wide expanses 5' or more, have full screens on the windows, and the lites are removable if you so choose, for a screen-room-like feel during the warmest month, then with lites in place you can slide open as needed/desired. If done with a knee wall/ 1/2 wall you can maintain some privacy as well. These windows are insulated, Low-E glass so they will help extend the usefull season on both ends, especially when combined w/a heat source. The brand I've dealt with is Harvey Industries, they make their own and I believe they're available in NY.
You can do a 2-lite or 3-lite style, the 2-lite is an XX , configuration , both operable,(they by-pass each other) and both are removable lites, the 3-lite is an XOX , the operable lites being removable, the center is fixed.
I've found these to be great windows for a screen porch or 3-season room and they are well made.
just my 2cents!
Geoff
P.S. just checked....Store in Albany and Burlington Vt. and they now go by Harvey Building Products
Take the time to really think through how you are going to use the room before you make any decisions. Sunrooms and solariums are right up there with balconies on highrises as the most underused spaces in residences.
The glazing makes it very hard to modulate the temperature, most people don't want to sit in direct sunlight for very long and they are often hard to furnish. I'd think of what activities and furniture you see the room having and design it around that.
I would echo this sentiment. I think it is a very philosophical question. Sarah Suzanka devotes a section to it in her book "The not so Big house" where she talks about the connection to the outdoors and how a screen porch makes you feel more like you're part of the outdoors than a sunroom or 3 Season room does. It's a little etherial, but it was interesting to read. After reading that and some introspection, I built a screen porch, figuring that I already had enough enclosed space.
Edited 7/29/2009 3:24 pm ET by Quickstep
For our sunroom we added operable skylights and a direct vent gas stove. The skylights cool the room off in the summer, the stove makes the room nice and toasty for very little extra $ in the winter. Because of the exposure this is the best room in our house for plants, so the heat allows them to stay alive through the winter as well. We set the thermostat at about 60, and then if we want to occupy the room as well the flick of a switch has the flames going.
I would do both the same again.
Gene,
I had a surprising introduction to your climate, the first time I visited Lake Placid, so I really appreciate your wish to extend the usefulness of such a space. Story to follow.
I experimented with a room of that kind for a few years, one that was built on piers and worked well. It had two 9' sliding glass doors, one on each of the walls which faced the view. In the corner, between those two walls was a wood stove with a large pane of glass.
The sliders could be removed if desired, during the warmest weather, leaving only the screens. Using a hand truck, I could tilt them out and set them against the outside wall, under the eaves.
The rest of the spring and fall I could still open the sliders during the day, then close them and heat the room with the wood stove when temperatures made that necessary. All in all it was the nicest place in the house, eight-nine months a year.
My first visit to the Adirondacks...
I flew my little Cessna 150 up to Lake Placid, about and hour and a half from the Hudson Valley, just after Labor Day 1979. I wanted to ride my bike around the area and see the new Olympic venues before the games that winter.
I was planning to sleep "under the wing" for one night, thinking that the temperature changes would be similar to my home area. I was prepared for a light frost but nothing much below that.
Fortunately I met a fellow carpenter who was working at the airport. When he learned that I intended to spend the night outside, he laughed and told me that I'd be very sorry if I tried it. He said that the overnight low was expected to be in the mid-teens, typical for that time of year, not up around freezing as I expected.
He kindly offered me his couch and his company so I took him up on it, returning the favor with a great flight around the area, the following morning. The low that night was definitely much colder than I could have withstood outside so his gracious hospitality was sincerely appreciated.
Edited 7/28/2009 5:32 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
My in laws have a sunroom they LUUUUUUUVVVVVVV. They are in Buffalo.
I would think about using materials that will tend to NOT suck heat out of your body, like thick carpet and cushy foam with fabric cushions. You can use some black tile or slate near the doorways to absorb some heat if you like. I don't like the idea of thermal mass here, as it would seem like it would spend all day sucking heat out of you in winter.
You would be surprised how warm and pleasent a bright and sunny 50 degree room seems in winter.
KISSG = Keep it simple, smart guy!
Tu stultus es
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Look, just send me to my drawer. This whole talking-to-you thing is like double punishment.
We did in between; didn't try to make it useable in all conditions. We used 4' x 6' aluminum storms 4x4 clear on top w/2x4 openable. Gave protection from rain, snow & wind but with 8 windows-16' felt like outdoors when opened up.
We have a glassed in "sunroom" at the cottage (3 sides are fully glassed) with a large sliding door on one of those walls. It is not a usable space in winter because of all the glass so it is a 3 season room (we do also have a small electric heater which can be turned on in the room). It is a very nice looking room, and folks always comment on what a nice space it is. However, we do not use it a great deal. Even with the sliding door open, it does not have the feel of being outside like a screened porch does, nor does it have the cozy feel of a "regular" interior space.
In town we have a large screened porch which has vinyl windows which can be lifted up something like garage doors so that we are left with just the screens separating us from the outside. We love this space. It is like being outside. You get the breezes and sounds of outside, but no bugs or rain etc... The windows can be down if desired to make the room comfortable on overly breezy days, or slightly chilly days.
No question that I would choose the screened room as a more desirable space, even though it is usable for a slightly shorter amount of time over the sunroom.
kivi
Edited 7/28/2009 10:52 pm ET by Kivi