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I plan to install tile on my kitchen floor. I have several questions which I hope I can get a consensus on. First, my cabinet installer says I should wait with the tile until after he has put in the cabinets. What are the advantages/disadv.? Secondly, I’m installing 20″x20″ tile which the sales person suggested putting the thinset on without a notched trowel (in other words, laying it on smoothly). He says sense the tile is rather large it is important to cover the entire surface with thinset, something a notched trowel can’t always guarantee. Should I disregard this advice and just use a low-notched trowel? Thanks for the help. | |
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I've done kitchen floors both ways many times and for me at least, it is much easier to run the tile under the cabs. Once the cabs are in, there will be a lot more cutting to fit the tile around them.
Mark the floor where the cabs will be, and run the tile at least to the marks with no cutting (also remember that you will need something that the cabs rest on at the back of the cabs -- easiest thing is to run tile or scraps of tile on the floor along the back wall too).
For the large format tile, use a quality modified thinset and follow the package directions (notched trowel -- 1/2" x 1/2" most likely). Mapei makes a lightweight thinset that it touts as giving 100% coverage. Never tried it, but you might want to.
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
You can always spread notched thginset on the floor, and then backbutter the tile to get full coverage. I can't imagine using a flat trowel for that.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Think about the next use of the room. Do you want to have to go back and match tile for holes or gaps if you decide to change the layout of the room? BTW do a foolish thing and buy an extra box or two of tile - you will avoid having to kick yourself later. Cutting arond the cabinets is a pain in the *** and never looks as good as a clean edge going under the cabinets.
For tiles of this size, the floor needs to be perfectly flat, and I mean perfectly, so be prepared to level the floor with a good flloor leveler spedifically made for the purpose. You will find the tiling alot easier and the result far better
Lastly, a notched tile appropriate for the thinset directions.
Good luck
Mark
There is a reason why notched trowels are used.
Place one of your 20x20 tiles on a poured floor or even a backerboard prepared floor and see what happens. Rarely will the tile lay perfectly flat and line up with the next one and the next one. There will be hollows left that will sound out as you walk. The same thing will happen if you spread the thinset smoothly as suggested by the salesperson.
Notches allow for adjustment in height and filling of voids, the small dips and hollows. The larger the tile, the larger the notches, providing almost perfect 100% coverage every tile. As you twist and press each into position the thinset ridges flatten and also compensate for the usually less than perfect substrate. There would be no adjustment possible with a smooth layer of thinset. Although it's nice to have a perfect substrate, it's not usually necessary to go to the trouble unless you have a really bad floor. Then, screeding in the patches is the way to go.
I prefer tile before cabinets. Scribing base cabs to a floor may be tedious but so is the cutting and fitting if you go the other way. With cabs first you also have to consider shimming them up at least the thicness of the tile and thinset so your countertop height is at least the standard 36". Helps immensely to have the proper clearance under the countertop when you plan on installing a dishwasher.
As was mentioned, if the cab layout is changed down the road, you may have difficulty with matching tile. Buying an extra box is also a good idea since it is your house. (leave the extras for subsequent owners if you are a nice guy).
Before I forget, one more trick for using the notched trowel. Make sure the ridges all run parallel to each other under an individual tile (don't just randomly spread it). This allows the air between the ridges to escape as you press the tile into the thinset and you'll get better coverage.
Saw a demonstration by Jon Eakes on TV when he set tile on plexiglass and you could see how this works underneath through the plexi (don't usually put much faith in what they say on the DIY TV shows, but they actually showed the difference looking up through the plexi in real time). It really does make a difference. Those Canadians can be real clever. ;-)
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
one direction troweling also comes in to play when you are setting large format tiles that are more brittle than the norm ...
some large tiles can crack along the multi-directional thinset swoops ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Excellent! Another reason to do it that way.
Sometimes I feel like a dope being picky about little stuff like that (like is it urban myth), but glad to know there are additional reasons to do it that way.
They never show nice parallel ridges in any of the tile trade mags or thinset ads, but I've been doing it that way anyway. I feel doubly vindicated. ;-)
"Let's get crack-a-lackin" --- Adam Carolla
"(like is it urban myth)"
hell ... it still might be ... but I ain't gonna find out the hard way!
I've noticed those ads with the fan look t-set ... first guy that showed me how said always straight ... so they've always been since.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I can't relate to the "install the cabinets first" routine. No way. Tile first or any other floor for that matter first and then the cabinets. Period
Grunge on.