Hi all, I’m a long time reader of FineHomebuilding, but a first timer of the forums. I’m in the process of completing a bathroom re-model and had a few tiling questions. I’m installing 16×16 porcelin tiles over hardi backer for the floor and wondering if i should consider back buttering each tile because of there size, I plan on using a 1/2 x 1/2 square notched trowl. Also I will be installing 6×13 porcelin tiles for the shower over kerdi membrane, should I do the same for a stronger bond, any other advise would be greatly appreciated.
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You'll definitely want to back butter tiles that big. You might want to run out to the bookstore and pick up Michael Byrnes book or one of his videos. Lots of general knowledge in there as well as answers to specifics.
Thanks for the advise, hope to talk to you soon
yep, his book is well worth having as a reference tool regardless of how much tile work one might do.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561580805/ref=cm_rdp_product_img/187-7916423-3080953
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94969.1 The Breaktime Index
Notice how Michael has a handful of tiles that he's probably not backbuttering, he's just sticking them into the combed thinset.
I skim a very thin coat of thinset onto the back of each tile, and then stick it into the combed thinset. Never been able to stop myself from doing it.
Sounds like a good habit.
be I've heard there are such things.94969.1 The Breaktime Index
Smaller tiles (up to 8") will get 80% adhesive coverage very easily, just pry one off to check the coverage. It's harder to get good coverage on larger tiles or stone so back buttering helps. A deep thinset bed shrinks making it more difficult to get a perfectly level surface. Use marble and granite mix.
http://www.custombuildingproducts.com/ProductCatalog/SettingMaterialsDIY/HighPerformanceMortars/MarbleGraniteFortifiedPremium.aspx?user=diy&lang=en
I always marvel at those large expanses of shiny granite tile with perfect reflections, really professional workmanship.
Agree on the Michael Byrne book. If you don't buy it you're throwing money away.
Kurt
yep, his book is well worth having as a reference tool regardless of how much tile work one might do.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561580805/ref=cm_rdp_product_img/187-7916423-3080953
Rez,
Thanks for the book review and the link. I just ordered both the book and the DVD so Tauton owes you a commisssion.
I've been setting tile occasionally for forty years but I've never worked with or watched a pro do it, so I'm sure to find some useful advice and techniques in those two soureces.
Peter
Thanks for the advise, hope to talk to you soon
Absolutely butter the backs. You using a half inch notch? Them is big tiles.
ok you guys got me freaked out. yesterday i set 16x16 tiles,1/2x1/2x1/2 trowel. used the best modified thinset. used a rubber mallet to set each one.
you guys saying this won't work without back buttering?
like i'm going in and chiseling them up,but i still have 80 sg to put down. larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Pull one or two of them up (or try to!) right after you've set them--if there are voids, then maybe back butter, if the thinset is even and no voids and it is sticking well (should have quite a bit of "suction" making it hard to pull), you know it's okay.
Did you check coverage periodically while setting?
David said it. You should pull up tiles from time to time before the thinset is set and see how the coverage is. If it seems to be 85% or so with the 1/2" trowel, then yeah......you're fine.
It also totally depends on the tile. Some can be really warped, and others dead flat. I find the Italian hard fired porcelain to be fairly consistant, while the terra cotta Mexicans are so inconsistent that I set them the old fashioned way in a wet bed.
no,i didn't pull any up,tommorrow i will give that a try and see.this is my first time laying 16". everything else i have always laid were 12 or less and i never back buttered them either,so far never had any pop.........if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
They're probably fine. Just set a few in the regular way that you've been doing and then pull it back up to see. If you're not in the high traffic area, I would just leave it.
Oh, does this thread bring back horrible memories!I bought a bunch of tiles, really nice ones, about 10x10, at a really good price from the tile shop. And they have been installed for about 10 years now. But oh my! Installing them!!!!I found out why nobody bought them. They had HUGE buttons on the bottom, and even with a 1/2" notch on the floor I would only get about 50% fill. So, I had to butter each one, and butter it completely. At the same time I used a smaller notch on the floor.Now understand that I have put up a fair amount of tile, so my production rate isn't bad. But here---it took about 5 minutes per tile, and that was after I got rolling. Then, no matter how carefully I buttered, there were always places that the thinset surged out between the tiles. So, I had big cleanup after each session of laying tile. Oh, did I mention that this was being done after work, so I really did not get a lot of work done each night?
Umm, not really sure how to tell you this...
Those weren't tiles, they were trivets!
:-)
Just what the "heck" are you talking about. The box SAID tiles; The store SAID tiles on their sign; How could I have been so wrong?;-)[That is a smiley, for those not noting it]EDIT: And, besides a "trivet" has three feet. This had a whole bunch--an "octavet maybe?
Edited 12/14/2008 3:33 pm by JohnD1
>>>a "trivet" has three feet
Got me on a technicality, dang it.
:)
Thanks for the advise, hope to talk to you soon