I have a couple of questions regarding tiling a backsplash. First off, is it better to use a “v” notched trowel on walls as opposed to a square notch? Also I have about six outlets to tile around, the tile is 3/8″ thick which means I am going to have to move the outlets out even with the tile-correct? How hard is that to do “after I’ve tiled? Can it still be done? I know the outlets should probably be moved first but to make a long story short the tiling is getting done tommorrow regardless of whether the outlets have been moved or not.
Monty
Replies
The boxes are supposed to nearly flush with the finished surface. A slick way to do this on a backsplash is to use adjustable boxes. These have a screw drive inside to move the box in or out, to align it with whatever the finished surface turns out to be. They should be available at your local builders store.
You can get extension adaptors for the boxes you have to add that 3/8"
How hard it is may have something top do with how sloppy the tile work is. If the installer has any experience at all, you shouldn't need to worry about taking care of it later. Overgrouting is the biggest concern.
Since you ask about tyupe of trowel, I am concerned that maybe the installer hasn't done theis before and you have other questions that you aren't aware of yet, like how to lay out, how to cut tile and nibble corners off, how to clean up.
The trowel size and type depends on the type and thickness of tile and the kind of mastic or thinset you are using. The notching is designed to provide the proper amt of material for contact and adhesion. Thinset bags usually display this on the instructions. For regular wall tile at 3/8" thickness and less than 1/8" grout key, I would most likely use a V-notch 1/8" or 3/16" trowel.
Excellence is its own reward!
Would it really be necessary to use extension adapters in this case since the 3/8 " area exposed is going to be the sides of the ceramic tile? I am wondering what purpose the extensions would serve that the ceramic edges wouldn't.
Well, rez, if any electricity tries to escape the box, it probably won't hurt the tile.
But if any grout tries to escape from between the tiles, It will make a mess of the box..
Excellence is its own reward!
I thought code requires extension boxes. Even not, it's a good answer.
Tom
I always try to stay on the practical side of things.
Excellence is its own reward!
If the tiling is done before the outlets are moved out, make sure that the "ears" of the outlet are not covered by the tile.
It would be best if the screws holding the outlets in were removed so the tile could be placed behind the ears, then later the boxes can have the extensions installed. A good idea to have the power to the outlets off at least while the tiling is being done if you do this.
But if you leave the outlets alone and tile around the ears, then a spacer (a scrap of tile) can be put in behind the ears when the outlet is brought out and the box extension installed.
Another day, another tool.
If you have plastic boxes with a draft flange like T&B type there is no option to move the box face flush with the tile. Whatever type of box you have (plastic or metal) there is an approved method to make the outlet sit flush with the surface.
Someone asked why is this important? well the outlet or switch will be weaker in its mounting and sit askewed behind the faceplate. It is hard to count on the tile installer to give you the proper support.
Instead you can get a Bridgeport product called "ReceptXtender" They come in single or 2 gang styles. These plastic collars have a depth that is 1/4",3/8", 1/2", & 3/4". You select what you need depending on the application.
UL Listed re: NEC article 370-20
These are about 80 cents each and they do add volume to the box.
Other companies make them too I just don't know who else.
Edited 3/3/2003 9:43:06 AM ET by Booch
Your tile and your thinset will have recommended knotches for the trowel. Most start with quarter inch and go up or down from there, depending on coverage and thickness of tile. You want no more than one half, and preferably one third of the tile thickness covered with thinset. The rest is for the grout.
Remove the plastic outlets; tile all around the box, and replace the outlets with the upper and lower "ears" resting on the finished tile. You'll be fine.
Box extensions are better, but I've done the other way hundreds of times . No big deal.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
Box extensions can be done before or after , before is easier, with extensions you can clip off the ears and blue tape outlets & switches to mask, use mastic on tiles less than 8"x8", if you are going over cement backer board prime the wall with mastic using the flat side of you trowel let this skim over then using the correct notch start layin up your tile. Use quick setting thinset on anything larger than 8"x8". take the time to level the tops of your boxes to the same line or they are going to look like Hades. Leave a caulk space between your countertop and first row and all other corners don't grout as it will only crack and leak. Your siding dist. should have NPC solar seal 900 caulk it comes in many colors and you can even custom mix to please a fussy client.
Question. I'm tiling a backsplash also and I'm using 4" x 4" tumbled marble tile. They are very irregular and pitted and I was wondering if it would be better for me to use a grout bag instead of a float to grout these tiles? I'm concerned with leaving grout in all the pitted areas. I've never used a grout bag before and I'm not exactly sure what the technique is. Do I lay the grout with the bag and then use a sponge to work it in or what? Also I have the tiles spaced by eye at mostly 1/ 16" but do to the irregular shapes there are alot of spots where it is 1/8" or more, especially in the corners. What is the best way to handle grouting these tiles and not having a problem with left over grout. Do the grout bags come in differnt "tip" sizes? I guess I would need a 1/16" bag, would that be right? I appreciate any responses.
Mick
I just bought one too. I've a little marble to work on filling. The box stores have no nozzles for the grout bag I checked today. It isn't even in their database of parts from the bag supplier. Find a cooking or pastry cooking tool store and ask for pastry bag nozzles. I plan to steal DW's pastry tool nozzle (shssssh!)
Here is a tricky one. The tile store says not to use the latex admixture in the grout for marble as the latex soaks into the marble and discolors it. The Taunton Tile book says to add in the admixture to make the grout flow smoother thru the grout bag opening and add resiliency to the joint. Both good points. I'm sealing the marble tile top surface with the Gold 15 by AquaMix first. Then the latex won't matter as much?
In any case mix it loose so it flows easier. Pastry bags use a nozzle that drops in the bag first. The pastry nozzle is too big to pop thru the opening but the metal tip points out thru the rubberized opening in the bag.
Then fill the bag about 1/2 full with the loose mixed grout. Shake it down tword the nozzle and twist the loose end (open end) of the bag like a sweat sock. Then fold it over and hold the bag like a football in a handoff situation. Point the nozzle tword the tile joint and squeeze as needed. Periodically reshake and twist the bag to pack a tighter load.
Then rinse out the pastry nozzle and return it to the kitchen before anyone knows.......(like that'll happen) No good deed goes unpunished.Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
Booch,
How do I handle the grout once it has been squeezed in the joints? Do I wipe down with a sponge? Do I tool it in further? I figure I will fill joints with bag and then use a sponge to shape and clean, Am I on the right track?
Yes, you tool it in, but be restrained in how far you smear the grout. As I write, it I expect you won't have much choice as you have tiny marble don't you? Mine is 12 by 12 so I can show some restraint more easily.
Tooling the grout to pack it in is important but just as important is wiping the surface and shaping the grout. Do that fairly quickly after you apply it. Say within 5 to 15 minutes. It takes a lighter hand with the sponge but it doesn't leave as much residue behind. Just don't work too far ahead of yourself.
PS don't fret on filling the voids in the marble face with grout. It's rustic and it's normal.Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
Grouting is so easy, that in hundreds of tile jobs I have never, ever used one. Get a couple grout sponges, several buckets with CLEAN water and change your water frequently. It is really easy and fun.
I have used a grout bag for brick and stone veneer, but those joints are over a half inch wide.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927
ive tiledlots of backsplashes with thick and thin tiles.
the outlets must be pulled out(good time for new ones anyway) and ears of the outlets must be in front of the tile.
cutting the tile for the outlets is tricky of course especially if one is in the middle of a tile
best way for me is a small grinder with a diamond wheel freehand
good hint? turn off the power to those outlets especially when grouting
wet grout conducts electricity very well and could be a "shocking" experience