We’re working on a kitchen job – happens to be my own house. The ceiling is Armstrong patterned “circles” and we are using tin cornice molding. It’s 2 1/2″ out and 3 1/2″ high, egg and dart in 4 foot lengths.
The last time I worked with this was too many years ago to remember, and I’ve been fussing with this stuff on and off over the last couple days.
Inside and Outside corners are frustrating. The best thing I’ve found so far is doing it on a bench/jig upside down, then making final adjustments in place. At least that eliminates some of the up and down on the ladder. Tried using the Dremmel for fine sliver removal, helps a little. It’s going to be painted, but I’m trying not to use too much filler when I’m done.
Anybody got any tips they can share? TIA.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations – New Construction – Rentals
Replies
bump.
can ya cut it with a chop saw?
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I don't think it would cut with a chop saw. The metal is not hard enough to support the cut.
It would likely bend when the saw hit it, unless I built a form to fit behind/around it.
The metal is convex, has a slight belly toward the front. That makes it a bear to mitre.
And, since there's a pattern in it, the patterns changes the dimension depending on where you hit on the pattern.
I know this isn't too clear. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow a.m.
BTW - I think one time you were talking about somebody that had priced cabinet installs at $100/box. I'm curious if you think that number still flies based on what you are seeing.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I'd try it on the shop saw.
if you're concerned, flip the blade around ... but I'd try an 80 tooth blade on my 12"
just go in slow and steady ... I've cut pretty thin aluminum that way.
probably not "recommended" ... but it's worked for me.
what's the worst that'll happen?
it'll shear off ... tear the piece to shreads ... rip off your hand and get a pound of metal in one eye?
might wanna wear gloves and goggles first ... but I'd still give it a go.
I estimate cab installs at one "piece" per hour. One box, filler, stick or trim, etc.
I shoot for $45/hr as a base.
a buddy who does similar work for similar designers and I decided for real high end stuff that $75/box was closer to the mark ... as the highest end stuff always has details that slow ya down.
I'm of the mind that not enough work or too much work ... don't change the numbers.
I try not to cut my rates to get work.
It's never really helped me in the past ... and has hurt enough that I really try to avoid that kinda thinking. Sharks smell blood ... dogs smell fear ... that sorta thinking.
lowering rates to land a job isn't going to attract good clients.
I will however give a "group rate". Someone wants me to lower my rates ... fine ...
I'll lower my rates for a 2 week job if they book a 4 week job.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Just say to your self, "Cut line, fold line" leave one end of the joint long (1/2 " or so) and fold it with needle nose or channel locks so it dies behind the other joining pc. This makes any gap not an air hole that you can see through, but backed by metal.
Just use red wiss snips (holding them upside down sometimes helps) and sneak up on the miter. New SHARP snips are a MUST. Take em out of the card board package at the store and TEST them on the cardboard by trying for a miniscule sliver, if they won't do it, try another pair.
No matter what ya do tho' egg and dart is a tough one to get to meet up right, almost not do-able.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I tried to fold one of the outside corners and wasn't happy with the way it came out. Maybe I need a little more practice. :-) Going to get it here. 9 inside corners and 4 outside corners, one of which is about 19 degrees. That was the first one I did. Coping the inside corners is easier than doing the outsides.
Sharp snips are a must, that's agreed. My reds are pretty good yet. I borrowed a pair of greens from my helper and couldn't cut a thing they were so worn. I'm learning about sneaking up on the line too. One bad cut and there's a hole - not good.
What have you used for filler? Thinking of caulk or bondo, but memory tells me we used a dry spackle mix the last time. Don't tell me to solder it - that isn't happening.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I only did one room once way back when. It wasn't to be painted so I had no filler. I honestly don't know what to suggest, caulk is bear to tool, and spackle (Vinyl) may not stick. Bondo is a pain as well. Maybe automotive GLAZING putty, its used over bondo for ultra smooth. Greendragon and Nitro-stan are two I remember.
edit to add: http://www.nitrostan.com/spotputt.html#ggviewer-offsite-nav-9252856
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Edited 2/1/2009 11:17 am ET by Sphere
After reading yours, I went back and took another look. Some corners are okay, but in some, I did break the pattern. So be it. The painter will take care of it - No wait, that's me.
I'm thinking with a little filler, it will work. May try that glazing putty. I need to get a few more pieces up so I can move some cabinets today.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Looks Ok, I'd maybe take some Alex or Whitelightning caulk and a really small cut nose and try that. The putty might be too fussy and hard to get right. You got the right nails?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I do now. Started out with long panel nails, knowing the heads were too small. After the first day, I stopped by Lowe's for a couple things ($700+), and found some 1 1/4 Maze nails with the right sized heads.
Going downstairs now to do some work before the game. Catch ya later.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Well, I basically got it done, except for about 6' where I need to build a wall to attach the cornice to.
Two things that I picked up on to keep in mind - caulk the corners before they are put together and use the squeeze out to fill the joint better; and second, lap your joints like vinyl siding - in the direction where they will be seen best. (On one of the last joints, instead of cutting the edge square, I was fooling around and cut the profile of the lap on the outer circle of the "egg". It came out pretty good.)
Once it's painted, I'll try to post a picture.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
>>No matter what ya do tho' egg and dart is a tough one to get to meet up right, almost not do-able
Glad you said that.
Now I don't feel like such a hack.
Once I was fighting with a simple dentil detail, lucky for me it was a restore. I could NOT get it to make a miter equally. Then I measured all the dentils and found they varied by a smidge as did the spaces, so that it could be done. They were loose blocks, if it was a machined strip ( which I made) that was all equal..no way.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I put up some egg and dart crown that was that foam stuff. First and last time I ever used the stuff. Matching the patern at corners and splices was impossible unless the HO was willing to spring for another couple of sticks of the stuff. Still, I felt like a hack that couldn't get the junk to match.