OK, so I’m showing my ignorance here. The new, still purple, still needs more attic insulation, but now working cable drops where I need ’em, also has a number of 3-way dimmer circuits.
They have G’d awful (according to SWMBO’s taste) gold plated rotary dimmers @ one switch, and regular toggles @ the second location in the circuit.
I’m leaning toward the Lutron toggles w/the little slide on the side (no leds, no pilot light, just KISS).
But here’s the thing. I read on Lutrons’ sight that I can have dimmers on both switches…one regular, one “accessory”…..they are different part numbers. I haven’t seen any accessory dimmers on the Lutron display board @ the local Lowes. I did see their “Ecodimmer” line on sale, and what caught my eye is that they are supposed to be able to be used in either 3-way or regular (no-one says 2-way, why is that?) circuits.
Farther into the fog here—can non-dimming 3-way switched be use in a 2-way circuit??
I have a hard enough time (OK, I can’t, I have to look up the wiring diagram every time, darn it) keeping a simple 3-way circuit in my head…..I can’t really imaging what sort of wizardry is required to have a dimmer on both legs……
Happy Saturday, all
Replies
The new, still purple, still needs more attic insulation,
Huh?
Mike
I must have left out "house" somewhere in there......
LUTRON's are DIFFERENT!!!!! They are electronic, so you have to follow their wiring diagram, which is NOT intuitively obvious. My daughter just put a 4-way LUTRON system in her LR. She was stumbling over the wiring diagram they gave her in the box w/ the dimmers. I said "Huh?????". Then read their explanation instructions & drew her a detailed WD, including the neutral, grounds & all. She wired it up & it worked!!!
No, you cannot use a regular switch in a 3 way or 4 way ckt. I suggest you buy the LUTRON switches you want/need in whatever design you want, in appropriate qtys. Open the box w/ the "Master" in it & carefully read the instructions several times. Especially note the WD at the end & noodle it out. (Make sure that you read the instructions in English - It may be all Greek to you, but I guarantee that if you read them in French or Spanish you'll never figure them out! <G>.) Realize it will only show you the HOT wire of the ckt. It will not show you every connection in every box - & YOU have to figure out how the neutral gets wired in. You have to sit down w/ a large sheet of paper & figure that out. I can only speak about the Maestros here, because that is what we used. But, the first clue that LUTRONS are different is that they have color coded the screws on the back. You put the "Master" (as opposed to the "Accessory") dimmer in the FIRST position in the chain where the power supplied to the ckt comes in. Then there is one colored screw that must be connected together on EVERY switch. No "Travelers" as we usually think of them & wire them.
Promise you - LUTRON's work. Just different when you buy their electronic controllers.
Don
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Thanks much Don....
Been around a fair number of large Lutron system installs, so am at least somewhat familiar with the product.
Sounds like I'm in for fun. (especially since the knuckle-head who wired my new house used crimp connectors for EVERYTHING)
I hope they have the accessory dimmers @ Lowes. I'm maxing up a list with a 10% coupon....
Can't recall where Daughter got her LUTRONS. IIRC, she had to special order them. They came by UPS in the end. They AIN'T cheap! But they are nice. She normally buys at Lowes in McComb, MS. She also had an 8 light system - that means over 1KW load - took high capacity switches.Good luck - any questions about figuring out a Wd for them, lemme know. Been there, done that, tore my hair over it!DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Thanks again. I thought it over, and the DW and I decided we really don't need to be able to dim from both ends on any of our 3-ways. And, the "Adriani" Lutrons -they are the simple toggle & slide model- don't have "companion" dimmers.On a related subject, it ain't easy being green. I like CF bulbs, tempered strongly by the fact that it seems there is a town in China where everyone has mercury poisoning from the nearby factory---Minimata all over, when will we learn!?
That said, my new digs have several hall-way to room paths with 6 or more can lights. Do I spring for dim-able CF bulbs on a dimming 3-way, non-dimming CFs on a straight 3-way, or incandescent on a dim-able 3-way. Decisions, decisions.I like places I can leave a 7W CF permanently on---porch lights, bath night lights. Everywhere else it's a guess. Don't even get me started on instant on and Kelvins....
OTOH - I cannot handle the CFL's. Light is wrong spectrum & too dim for my eyes. actually cannot read comfortably. Have post cataract eyes & some macular degeneration. Detest restaurants w/ dim lights for "Mood." Makes me feel depressed. Looks like I'll be stocking up on incandescents before they go out of style.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Detest restaurants w/ dim lights for " mood".
It's also so you can't see how dirty the place is.
Or, if it is a local place for romance, so you can't see who is with who.
I do like really classy places with "mood" lighting but they are out of my price range."There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
Popa: Ever get a shock up a stream of ####? Hurts like Heck. Ditto for a shock through a slight abrasion or a minor cut.DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"
Were I you, suggest you pull out the Lutron wiring instructions and take a good hard look (study) of those before buying a bunch. You may still opt to buy but do so with full understanding of what your doing. I'm not saying buy or don't buy, just beware.
Personally, I don't much like the toggle feature. Give me the old fashioned on/off or dimmer and take this Lutron to the dark nether world. I've gotten more "dislike" comments from customers regarding Lutron then "like" comments. About 6 bad for 4 good in my experience.
Lutron and walk in bath tubs are in similar to each other in that respect.
I'm with you on complicated switches. I've been in houses that had so many switches and dimmers that for the life of me I couldn't turn the #### light on.
What a pain in the rear. I had a guy start a bath remodel in my house as a favor and he was going to put 4 switches ganged up for a small bathroom.
Not only is it confusing but it looks ugly and excessive.
I kicked him off the job. I don't care if it was free. He was a hack. "There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
How did the "hack" get to 4 switches for your small bath?
Appliance selection on your part has much to do with it.
I recently finished a small bath:
Contained in fan unit over walk-in shower:
1 switch for main light
1 switch for night light
1 mechanical timer for fan
plus
1 additional switch for vanity light
Granted these were not housed in one 4 gang box.
1 - 2 gang box housed vanity light switch plus a double switch for shower light and night light. 3 switches total in this box.
Separate box by shower entrance / toilet houses mechanical timer for the fan.
Would have needed another switch if there was a heater in that fan unit.
If ya' need 4 switches, ya' need 4 switches............
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I think he was putting them in because he could. Not because it made sense.
I t kind of like cars these days. Do I need all those gizmos? I like it simple."There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
Exactly! Friend of mine had a new "sun room" addition and the rouge electricians installed 5 separate switches, most were three ways while one was a 4 way, all controlling three can light sets. After two weeks she was so confused that she begged me to take them out and go back to traditional three way and or one switch for one light set (dimmer combo). At one particular switch box, there were so many wires in there that I had to throw in the towel and admit I couldn't undo that particular set up. That and the fact you can't mix the electronic with traditional switches made for a great deal of frustration. Nothing the rouge electricians installed on that job was even close to neat, it looked like the proverbial birds nest of wires and there was only one "4 way" switch at that particular box location. She, to this day, is unable to use that switch because we can't figure out what it controls. I'm not blaming the switches as much as the installers but I'd have to say that I don't see much benefit to Lutron switches for the added cost. Little blinking / sequencial lights??? What's the point? It's a light switch not an all night movie!
We have LUTRON's throughout our house. Absolutely love them. We have a couple three ways & a bunch of single point dimmers. Anyone unhappy w/them must have had an incompetent installer. I had an electrician install a couple of my switches & he installed them backwards! A nightmare till I figured out what was wrong. They are different. I can also see how someone could have one that doesn't appear to control anything. There's a small slider on them that allows you to disable them while you replace lightbulbs. Hard to find. One of mine got turned off & drove me nuts till I found it. For an electrician not accustomed to them, a 4-way is so different that it is mind blowing! Realize that a 4-waY can have a master & up to 9 (I Think) accessory switches - try that w/ standard toggles!DonDon Reinhard
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"