I hope this is in the right folder. I’m a regular over at Breaktime, but thought I’d ponder this here where there might be some alternative viewpoints.
I was watching This Old House the other evening. They’re finishing up their big house/barn renovation in Carlisle, MA. They installed a $10,000 (Plus installation?) natural gas powered 25,000 watt backup generator. I’ve seen only a couple of episodes on this project, but I’m sure this is only one more example of “state-of-the-art” design for the modern American home. This is the same project where, in the first episode, Norm was huffing about how they don’t do tear-downs, they restore old houses, this being “This Old House,” after all.
It made me wonder about modern American tastes. Does this show – watched by millions – represent the pinnacle of the American dream home? Do we all aspire to live in a home so dependent on fossil fuel that we couldn’t bear to be without power for a half hour every few years? Must the house be heated and cooled to the perfect temperature every day of the year? Must the driveway melt its own snow after every storm? Does every family of three or four need 5,000 square feet?
Oops…gotta go. Time to fire up the plasma and see what’s going on in Iraq and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Replies
Good points. I also like that nearly every house now has to have a commercial (usually Viking) eight burner range and double ovens and a commercial refrigerator. How many people are these folks feeding? Then of course they brag about how many BTU's their outdoor grill produces. Most of everything in TOH is way over the top as far as I'm concerned--no way could I afford any of it. (Nor would I want most of it.) I remember they built a house once with a computerized system that did everything--controled all the lights, the phone, the doorbell, the radio in each room, etc. An actor bought the house and said it was so screwed up he couldn't answer the phone, lights would come on and go off randomly, nothing but problems.
It does not represent the pinnacle to me. It's throwing money away on show rather than function. And, lots of what gets shown on the program, and many other programs as well, are things that would make a home less livable rather than more.
A home should be a refuge from all the stress of the world. Those commercial stoves are hard to clean. The electronic control systems do nothing of value and are too hard to operate, program, and repair. Limestone bathrooms are a nightmare to maintain.
During the Ice Storm of '97 in Northern New York we were without electricity for a week. It was more fun than inconvenience. Lots of parents discovered how good it was to spend time actually talking to their kids over a board game rather than just being the the same house with them with all the tv's, computers, video games, and so forth. People cooked without a microwave.
The producers must think that there are people who like such things, but I don't know any of those people.
Our church has a Viking range--all the burners and ovens have standing pilots that throw enough heat for most people to cook a meal. They were always going out and people would call me (I was chairman of the board of trustees) complaining they smelled gas. The only repairman was in another city and it cost $80 bucks every time he came out. I finally turned the pilots off and put a grill lighter next to the stove with instructions.
Think there are several things coming into play.
Boomers and their children that want and think they deserve everything...now.
Low interest rates which allow more mortgage...so what goodies can I fold into this thing?
Builders who are terrified of omitting something...and thinking of new things to add to top their competition. Ah, the Tuscan look. Know it's all over by the msg boards I read. I've been to Tuscany. Only turrets I saw were on castles. Around here, you ain't squat without a turret. And, if one is good, five must be better.
Cost of land. We have so much BLM, US Forest and Indian land around us that close-in land has gone out of sight. If you pay $200,000 for an acre of land, doesn't seem right to put a cottage on it. Banks still don't like the land/house ratios out of wack.
Builders. Houses are priced and appraised /SF. Why build a small house and reduce profit?
ShelleyinNM
That's a good point about land costs. Around here (Boston area), it's not uncommon for a builder to buy a little (OK, sometimes not so little) house on nice lot, tear it down and build the largest possible house on that lot to get the maximum sales price.
Your comment about about builder's fears of omitting a bell or whistle also sounds right. There seem to be ever-escalating formulas of what must be in the modern dream home, and no one - builder or buyer - wants to deviate from the norm. I just recently read something about a built-in pest control system. Is this the next must-have?
It is with great relief that I see the "Not So Big" philosophy emerging.
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Me too. But you know what? Around here, no one has the guts to build a house like that on spec. And, most of the designers haven't a clue. Almost none of the builders use architects for spec houses....the $$ issue again. I take that back. There is one guy. Starting a 24 unit infill project. His houses have gotten to be 1,000,000+ the last few years. Anyway this project will be custom one-at-a-time, tiny lots, and over $250 s/f at around 1800-2000sf. Anxious to see what he comes up with.
So, either the public must demand it, or it'll be a niche thing done custom one house at a time. And, most of the house-buying public really can't distinguish quality of work. They buy based upon $$/sf....thus the desire to build big.
Vinyl windows? cool. Masonite doors? cool. MDF trim? cool. Garage as major architectural element? cool. Synthetic stucco over housewrap? cool. Sheathing made out of gypsum? cool. Most people measure quality by whether the house has stainless appliances and granite countertops. *sigh* Getting depressed. Have to go now.
ShelleyinNM
Agree with all you have said - before I retired as an architect I used to advise clients who wanted me to design their homes "go and buy a large note book, two feet of string and a long pencil, tie them together and every day for the next two weeks write down everything that you think you want, don't want, don't like etc etc. After two or three weeks edit it and carry on for a few more weeks. After about two months do a comprehensive edit and carry over the retained entrys to a new page and go thru the routine for a few more cycles". Depending on the patience and dedication of the clients it was a salutary lesson to them. The scrap books full of pages torn out of glossy magazines went into the garbage can, the crude pencil plans and doodles followed. Invariably my clients told me they learned to focus on their real needs and the format of their own lifestyle and circumstances and ended up with the most enlighened brief any architect could ask for.
It didn't take much interrogation from me from then on to work up a design that matched neally all of their expectations (some things inevitably fell thru the cracks but the clients by then had their feet well and truly on the ground).
Al,
Nice. I like the occasional thread over here, its "not so loud".
Danno is bumming me out. I like to cook, and the Viking has always been a dream for me. Out of those commercial brands, I think I like the idea of supporting the USA stove with a small town, 'your idea is useless' start. I dont want 8 burners, but...
Likewise, (shielding my skull), I think that the "Not So Big" is a bunch of hype. Many great architects have been doing 'small house designs' forever. Why all of a sudden is this one become some guru, as if it was her idea to be reasonable, or practical?
From a building perspective, the out of the ordinary, fun, interesting, projects and trim, for some reason, go hand and hand with the big. Conservative houses usually have conservative interiors, and for a builder it makes your day long.
As for TOH, I have heard horror stories about the show coming in and upping the cost and scope of the project many times, pressuring the homeowner into what kind of a budget they want, long after the job is underway. I dont see the point in destroying someones lifestyle, savings, or will, just to show the world you know how to spend others money. I dont participate.
-zen
Zen:
Sure, Sarah Susanka didn't invent the concept of smaller, quality homes. I tend to think of not-so-big houses as modern versions of Wright Usonian designs or Craftsman style homes. But for a person thinking about building a new home who is uncomfortable with the idea of a McMansion, it's nice to have a contemporary source to point to when bucking a powerful trend.
Al
If anyone wants a curved stair in their cape, or bungalow, Im on my way.
Can I suggest cocabola treads, Ill settle for bamboo.
-zen
And her books are helpful communication tools when talking to builders and architechts.
For years and years, it seems that new houses have gotten bigger and bigger, and for those of us building a home that don't want that, her books/ideas really strike a chord. They may not be new ideas, but the way she's been able to communicate them certainly makes them accessible.
Leigh
What I like about Susanka's books is that she has pictures of how it would look her way and not her way. Really gives you an idea of what she's talking about. And she, herself, says that you can still build big if you want too, but her ideas will make even a big house nicer and more usable.
Edited 3/10/2005 4:26 pm ET by Danno
Danno, have you read A Pattern Language? Whenever I read a Susanka book it seems like a lot of the material could have been pulled straight from that classic book. Susanka's real genius isn't her philosophy, it's that she put a catchy name on the philosophy and uses lots of pictures to describe the ideas. A Pattern Language is some dense, but excellent reading.
Mike
Yeah, A Pattern Language used to be practically my Bible. It and it's companion A Timeless Way of Building are excellent. Bought the first one in the 70's--I think it was on the order of $40 and that was a lot of money to me then. Bought the second in the 80's. You are right about Susanka borrowing their ideas and using lots of photos to illustrate.
The photos are the best parts of the books, I think. Of course, I'm a visual learner, so they really help me understand what she's talking about.
Leigh
Zen,
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I've no opinion on TOH -- too busy to watch -- but don't think of the Viking as extravagant if you will really use it.
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We just remodeled the kitchen in our 80 year old row house. With a few sensible decisions we managed to get 8 feet of uninterrupted counterspace on one side and 4 feet PLUS a 48 inch 6 burner + griddle Viking stove. The stove is worth every penny. We both love to cook and it really is not usual for us to be using both ovens and at least 4 burners at the same time. We decided our kitchen was for cooking, not for display, so we used Ikea cabinets and butcherblock counters to save money for the fancy stove, plus we did all the work except the electrical by ourselves.
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But, we don't have the plasma TV or the fancy car or the $10,000 backup generator. We get more out of our small house by making choices are based on the way we live and making the house a home than our friends or relatives in their 4000+ sf suburban palaces. Plus, 80 years on our house is structurally sound and many of those 1990s build mcMansions are already failing -- falling down around the unused stainless steel and granite.
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- Lfish
Thanks for the reply,
I think I will get the stand mixer too, because everyone else has the Kitchen Aide.
Or I wont.
-zen
Sounds like the process we went through when designing our new house! We found it very useful, and will end up with something that will suit us much more than we would have otherwise.
Leigh
As for TOH, I watch occasionally, just to get a few ideas. That show is all fluff though, I only really pay attention to the HVAC guy and Silva the carpenter. Norm doesn't know half of what he thinks he does. I think most of what they do on that show now is because of a relationship with manufacturers. You see them usings these "new" must have products instead of doing really carpentry. Instead of site built, original wainscoting you'll see them use some custom order veneer and instead of doing a regular poured foundation, they'll use some prefab foundation, etc. I think they have deals set up with these manufacturers where they get the product free for the advertising value of being on the show, or some type of deal like that. I think it would be a better show if they did do all the fluff and did and showed some custom trimwork and real workmanship. I also live only 12 miles from that current house in Carlisle so I can follow how long its taking from the weather changes and snow. If a builder took as long as they do to build a house, they would lose their shirt. They take a year to do 6 months worth of work and nothing is custom. Everything is pre finished junk.
Al, your right over in sharon, he's a link to a house that was built out in Hopkinton. The nicest house I've seen around mass, it sold for 4 million a few months ago. I think it has 4 or 5 sub zero's throughout the house.
http://www.design-home.com/home/
Not all the blame can go to the sponsors and workmen on TOH--the owners deserve some share too. I remember one three story house with a slate roof that the owner decided had to have a skylight at the peak to light the stairs. Silva and Norm didn't think much of the idea and even rigged some TV lights to simulate the amount of light that the skylight would provide--when they turned on the lights, there was absolutley no noticeable difference at the bottom of the stairs. Another time a woman insisted on cherry cabinets and a maple floor and the colors were off enough to look really bad together, but she insisted. I also love where they remodel in an historic district and have to keep the shell of the house as it was. On one, I think they replaced everything from the exterior paint inward in order to keep the historic "look".
When they do work on a private house, I don't think the sponsors are involve, or at least rarely involved. But the current house is one that they bought and are fixing up to sell. They have done this a few times and I think these cases are when they really do the product placements. I don't think its Threthewy or Silva that are involved, they just show up and work, its the producers that see the money opportunity. Although Threthewy isn't a HVAC contractor anymore, he's a sales rep for Viessmann, Unicco and some radiant flooring. I think the show was decent at one time but now its just all fluff. I cannot stand the magazine. You can look through that entire magazine and see less than 5 pages that are of any benefit at all. Fine Homebuilding, Inspired House and a few others have it all over TOH magazine. I think they would have a much better magazine and show if they went back to the custom work instead of manufactured wainscoting and bought cabinetry. The current project has an office/library and they bought all the cabinetry for it. Why would someone want a house for nearly 2 million dollars when they don't do a custom library? They are also doing the laundy the same way. To me, all library and trim should be custom for that house. Don't buy the boxes, build them in a shop or on site for that specific room. They are building a very typical spec house with an old shell rather than using their craftsmanship. Silva's very good, they should have him do some quality custom work on the houses.
I agree with everything you say. I subscribed to TOH for one year, but like you say, it didn't have much useful information in it. (Unfortunately my brother gave me a subscription, so I still get it, but nothing much worthwile in it.) "Inspired House" and "Fine Homebuilding" are much better. (I also let my subscription to "Dwell" go. I'm not a fan of New Modern.)
MojoMan
I also thought the generators cost was a little over the top, BUT I belive that they will be putting the house on the market for over 1mil! They did work with a realtor at the beginning to see what sells & what dosen't. Like you i'm also from MA, (Danvers) and a contractor that I use to work for dose a lot of remodels around the north shore for up to 3+mil! mostly like TOH Manchester project. If I pay that kind of $$$ I would want all the conviences I can get for my $$$.
All Things Wood!
Stephen Prunier Carpentry
That place is caverous. Where would a family of four go? During one episode, they mentioned that the garage is 2,000 sq. ft. That's bigger than my whole house and my family of four does fine there. I guess I'm thinking like a poor man.
You do have to give them credit for the previous project, which was a small coach house for someone's parents.
At the JLC show, I looked through the 25 year TOH magazine while waiting to get into the show. They talked about that Carlise house, and don't think they want only $1.2 m for that place. They said in the little article that they paid $625 for the house and the budget is $1.5 million and they will get to that number. So they are looking at a price of $2.2 or so just to break even. I live about 20 minutes from that place and knowing this area and the doe eyed home owner crowd area here, they will get it. I think the doe eyed crowd would pay at least $500k extra just for the TOH name and the bragging they could do in their minds.
With out TOH, if a very good contractor renovated that same house to the same specs it would sell for $1.2m to $1.5m. Whatever you do to it, it is still an old house and it has a design that is not as friendly as new houses. There are many houses selling for less $$ around here that are much nicer houses. Frankly, I've been disappointed with this project, they aren't doing anything high end really. The cabinets are stock, company made, the trim, roofing, etc are all just good but nothing really top end. It would be nice to see a very high end custom kitchen with coffered ceilings, all kinds of built in's, multi piece crowns, etc. Everything is "store bought" and just assembled. It's like an Ikea house, nothing custom or built for the house other than the fireplace and the logs on the ceiling.
Mo,
TOH did a segment I think way back where they took a 2 car attached garage and converted it into an additional BR.
I could relate to this.
Then many years later we got the Concorde barn episode where they basically bulldozed the entire structure; saved a few pegs from the wood framing and started over from scratch with a brand new structure; naturally they incorporated the old pegs.
Should be called This New House.
In all fairness I do enjoy the show even if it is now for millionaires.
Wonder who is living in that garage conversion now.
Lets not forget that the suppliers are giving away alot of this to get exposure. It's not hat the HO wants this, but possibly the show says we can get you ____.
I have to agree with you. When I first started watching TOH, they were undertaking real projects for real people. Now, I'm afraid these guys have gotten to used to smoking crack. They've lost touch with reality - hell, they hired an investment banker to be their new host. Give me a break! I miss the days when I could see how to do what they were doing, using only the tools in my little old garage shop. Progress!?