I’ve got a question for all you out there who share tools. What I mean is personal hand tools brought on to the jobsite. All of us know everybody, and have been working together for one to ten years. Usually, a persons hand tool can find it’s way into another’s bucket, or apron,by accident or ?, usually by the end of the year or so everybody’s truck box get’s opened up and guys look through and “hey, so that’s where my 50′ tape went to”, and stuff gets returned to the rightful owner. We’ve got one guy, he’s been with us ’bout five years, and has become quite possesive about his hand tools. Claims he lost a fortune in tools. Could be, nice guy, and perhaps subs have walked off with them by accident. Nobody labels their stuff. He will become quite rude if you pick up one of his tools without asking. This has happened almost overnite, and, is starting to piss people off. The guy could stand up and declare that no one touches his property without asking, but he wont, and one by one us others are finding out about his “thing”. There seems to be an atmospere of mistrust. Anyone else run into a character like this? From a co- worker?
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everyone should have thair own tools if this guy does not want others to use his tools you should respect that .i dont make a big deal out of it but when i reach for one of my tool i want to find it where i left it i will lend tools but i expect to see them right back
asan example i was working in a cabinet shop detailing european type cabs to trim the pvc edgetape i use a specially prepared chisel it makes the job easy and if done correctly does a clean job i have it sharend at the saw shop and then i touch it up with a stone well one day i am working along and i pick up my chisel and the edge is all ground up at first i thought it was the wrong chisel looked like someone had sharpend it on a belt sander it was useless for cabinets i asked the guy next to me if it was his he said no i looked around for my chisel couldent find it hmmm pretty soon the shop supervior came walking by and said he had used my chisel to CHOP OUT A COUPLE OF NAILS AND THEN RESHARPENED IT ON THE BELT SANDER i threw it away and bought another one
Tools out of my belt -- rarely get loaned out, unless working on a specific task with a partner, and he is on the right side of whatever the problem is to be able to take care of it. I have a box of tools....screwdriver, crowbars, handsaw, etc, and partners know that they can get and use whatever they need out of it, as long as it goes right back ASAP when finished. All my tools have some funky blue paint on them, so I know they're mine, and they stand out if they are in someone elses bag or box.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you should really learn how to sharpen chisels. Not the wrong way, but the right way. Once you get the hang of it, you can put a razor shar edge on it in minutes, or less. That srewed up chisels would take me 5-minutes max to put a good edge on it. I'm not tryiong to ride my high horse, but I have seen alot of guys who have some one else sharpen their chisels. Once I have showed them the correct way, they can't wait to go out a buy a good set of stones ( I use Japanese water stones). The money you save in sharpening fees will easily payback your initial cost on new stones.
The Guy that screwed your chisel up should be taken out back and put out of his missery. I would have been pi**ed and told him to never touch my chisels again and If he wants to learn how to sharpen, all he needs to is ask
i do sharpen my own chisels now i also buy better ones my kids gave me a set of blue handle marples chisel for last fathers day i keep them for primo work.in the take along tool box i still use a yellow handle stanly 3/4inch ive had for about 15 years
some tools you can loan hand tools and some power tools a couple of thing i will not ever loan out are my cup gun my belt sander or my pc door planer no ones even allowed to touch the door planer
I think you should respect the guy. I feel like him more times than not, so I know where he is coming from. Tools are a very personal thing and those of us who care spend a good deal of time (usually our own time) maintaining and customizing our tools to do the job we want them to do.
I'd agree (re: respecting his wishes - hands off the tools). I work in an office and spend half my time looking for tape, scissors, rulers, pens that have "grown legs" and left my desk. Even went so far as to rearrange the desk so that the pen cup was far away from the open side - prevents people from reaching in front of me to "borrow" the pens right from under my nose - or in extreme cases, right out of my hand!
My opinion is, make sure you have the tools you need to do the job, no matter what the job is. Neither a borrower nor a lender be.
You guys missed the question, which wasn't about the possesivness, but the abrupt change in attitude. The guy went from : "here... tools...... need it? grab it. Don't ask"....... to..... "screw you guys, don't touch my stuff" without warning. Kinda like, bringing in one of those big yellow water jugs one day and letting everyone get a drink if they want, then the next day. "leave tyhe $@%$&# jug alone. There's no reason for any hostility, or what?
Was this a one day thing, or has it continued, maybe he was just having a bad day, or maybe one person in particular hasn't been respecting his tools and he's finally had enough and become mad. Maybe he's just tired of being the local tool rental department.
Point is there is tons of possibilities, If you feel comfortable ask him what's up. If not I guess just don't borrow his tools.
As my G/F would say, try communication :)View ImageGo Jayhawks
That's one you've gotta ask him about but if you need to ask us, then my best guess is that people have been misusing the privelidge and he's had enough. Maybe his favorite screwdriver from his grandfather got used to open a paint can or something stupid.
The guys I work with share tools becasue we all respect them and the guys who own them but what you originally described sounds like a much more relaxed or careless type of arrangement that will lead to misunderstandings and lost or danaged tools.
Or
Maybe somebody borrowed his wife.....
Excellence is its own reward!
Hey Piffen
What's so bad about opening paint cans with a screwdriver? Bessides opening paint cans and using it as a pry bar what good is a straight blade screwdriver?
Never use someone else's tools without permission, not even for a second.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be me and many friend I shall have (badly screwed up Shakesphere quote).
Yea, it was the change in attitude that i think was the point. I can fully understand the majority attitude of the posts here; when your tools are your living, you have to look after them.
But if i read it correctly, this was a crew that openly shared everything, and had done so for a long time. Suddenly one guy doesn't want to. Now, maybe he never wanted to, and he finally got up the gumption to say it. Or who knows what. But the courteous thing to do would be to tell everyone up front, since it is a big change in attitude.
Or maybe he's got a brain tumor. Sudden change in behavior isn't something you want to just ignore.
Did anybody in the crew ask him why he had the attitude change? Perhaps someone in the crew damaged or didn't return a tool (or maybe he lost one on his own and blames someone in the crew.) Who knows, but until someone actually asks (not confronts) the guy, you'll never know.
Jon
One of you, lead man maybe if that's how your work is organized, might quietly and privately ask the guy if some particular incident "got his goat" or something? Usually there's a reason........It doesn't matter how fast you get there, it just matters that you go in the right direction.
Not everyone handles changes the way you may. Who knows maybe he is the Vocano type of personality, that instead of letting out his feelings, to solve the problem just lets it fester, then blows his stack. Could be he has been feeling this build up for a while. Or maybe he is under some pressure you do not know about. Like any situation in life, sudden changes are symtoms not the cause.
A mild word turns away rage!
I have a lot of sympathy for the POV of your buddy and, as you said, it's all a question of etiquette.
Even with people I've worked with for years, I ask before I take any of their tools even if iit's "just for a minute" and I bloody well expect them to ask me before they touch mine.
On my framing crew, the most commonly "borrowed" hand tools are 1) utility knife, 2) chalk line, and 3) pencils. As a tool hound, I normally give tools I don't use or that are "worn out" to new guys who don't have anything. Also, any tools that I get out of my truck box (hand, power, or air) I don't mind others using, as I expect another framer to pick up my nail gun if it's the closest one to him. Everyone knows that. However, there is this new guy we have now that just takes my stuff out of my truck without asking, like my ladder and my hammer-tacker. Maybe he thinks it's the boss's. (He did try to put the boss's brand new PP nailer into my truck, hehe.) As for labeling, we all have the same kind of chalk line and speed square, so I normally engrave or mark my initials on my stuff.
If you touched one of my tools without asking, You would here about it in a loud voice too!
Not to get things misunderstood, I do share tools on the job with the guys who respect them and me and use them correctly, but usiong someting without asking is just plain wrong. Even if it gets treated right, there are times I can spen an hour a day looking for tools that were right there last time I looked....That is stealing my time, or on a cost plus job, it is stealing a customers money.
It can also affect the quality of the finished job, lioke with the chisel example. I remember once that I was triming the doorbottoms of pre-finsished mohagany doors. Had a nice padded pair of benches to lay them on and after the cut, I would dust them off with a fine camel hair whisk.
So I carried a finished one back inside to hang and came out with another and the mason's tender was sitting on myu bench with his foot up using my fine whisk to wash his boots off!
They say you can still hear the echos of my reaction around that job on a quiet night.
Excellence is its own reward!
I hate people that touch my stuff with out asking. I usually work around guys I've known for years.....and they better ask first too.
And I ask them before I "borrow"...then make a point of returning the tool as quick as I'm done..and tell them "I put it back"...where ever I got it from.
Anyone that uses my stuff once without asking doen't get to touch anything else of mine that day.....do it a second time and ya never touch my stuff again.
Sounds like I'm one of those characters. It's OK though..I don't trust no one.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Where I work .
Tools that are already out and in use are kind of fair game, Going into someones truck or tool box has never a problem people always ask first. But I dont personally have a problem if a guy I am working with picks up my saw or drill and uses it without asking as long as it comes back so I know where it is.
View ImageGo Jayhawks
Edited 3/25/2003 8:26:30 PM ET by CAG
The two things dearest in life
Are the tools of the trade
And the darling wife.
Don't ask to borrow my tools
And I won't ask to borrow your wife.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I try to be well-prepared, tool-wise, so why aren't you? (Not you, Calvin, but the dumba$$ who's borrowing my tools)
As for wives...I love borrowing them, but I have to admit, I never ask. The husbands never notice, anyway. Probably the same guys who don't take care of their tools...
Regards,
Tim
Hmmm. Might be a good tip. Look for the guy with the poorly cared for tools and good looking wife and ...
Now why didn't anyone tell me about this when I was young and energetic enough to do something with this information. Twenty years behind the power curve again. Darn.
Ha, ha, carp_forhire, I'm possibly the most possessive hand tool owner that ever visits this forum.
Of course, I'm not a carpenter, I'm a furniture maker, so maybe the rules are different. Nobody reaches inside my toolbox for one of my chisels, spokeshave, set squares, planes, mallet, tape, rule, etc. Walk past my bench and casually reach out to borrow one of my tools and within seconds you'll wish you'd never arrived at work that day.
You'd certainly get verbally chewed out, and reminded in no uncertain terms that borrowing another cabinetmakers tools is absolutely a no, no-- the very worst workshop etiquette. Well, I guess it could be different in the building trades, and depends on your training and background, and accepted practise, but I won't even lend anything to anyone if I'm on site installing something I've made. And woe betide someone if they pick something up and start to walk away with it, ha, ha. Slainte.
Website The poster formerly known as Sgian Dubh.
Poking into my toolbox would be a great way to lose an arm. The rules where I work are you respect other peoples property, you don't even borrow a laborers hammer without asking permission and you return it immediately in pristine condition. Its usually the same ill equipped guys borrowing all the tools all the time and you would be doing yourself a favor by getting rid of the deadwood.
Turtleneck
The only difference between a rut and a grave is depth
My experience is the people that pick up your tools and start using them while asking or not, (not waiting for an answer ), are the ones who don't spend the time or money to bring their own. And they usually come back in worse condition.
The crew I'm with now is made up of older gentlemen who respect tools and their owners. If working with one or more of them on a project and the tool is out and being used then asking is not usually necessary. Curtesy is used to bring out another tool, i.e., ASK!
The youngest guy on the crew is good enough to ask but lacks the curtesy of replacing it after use. That stopped today when the rest of us made it known to him the "etiquette" of tools.
Unfortunately the boss is the worst of all. When he comes around, hide your pencils.
I gotta agree with most of the other guys here. You just gotta ask first. I'll say yes about 99% of the time, but don't let me turn around to grab something and have it be gone without me knowing about it.
I run a framing crew and right now there is just three of us, including myself. In the morning everyone gets a saw, a gun, a hose, and a cord. All mine. I also run a cord and saw out to the lumber pile. I had better never turn around and see my saw in your hand..."cuz it was closer". Worst offense of all is to leave the saw and run off with the cord to plug in a sawzall or something.
While we're talking pet peeves....I've got this guy who NEVER has hand spikes on him.... I'll say "hey, throw a hand spike in that if it won't move" and he'll fish around his pouches for a minute and turn and ask me for one. My belt is heavy enough without carrying this guys nails too!
I agree with some of the other posts. In a quiet moment ask the guy if he's having a problem and tell him you've noticed he's become a little sensitive about his tools. I'm sure he'll tell you if his tools have been mistreated, he doesn't like to loan them out, etc.
I encourage everyone to have their own tools. A guy needing to borrow all the time is not productive. Also, I personally don't like to loan my tools out because every time I do something happens that I don't discover until I need the tool, it's screwed up and I'm 20 miles from where I can get it fixed, if I can get it fixed.
I also have a code of conduct for my home owners which includes a request not to ask any of the trades people to use their tools.
"I also have a code of conduct for my home owners which includes a request not to ask any of the trades people to use their tools."
Russ, this is interesting to me. Is this a printed document that you hand the homeowner? Can you give us more points you address in it?
I am going to start a new thread in General Discussion, titled "Code of Conduct", to avoid hijacking this thread. Please reply there.
For the next few days I'm accessing this forum from a remote location, so I don't have the letter in hand, however. Yes it is written, I feel that way at the beginning of the project they don't feel I'm standing there lecturing them. And a written document can be refered to later by the client. The letter consists largely of safety concerns. No children on the job site, their visiting the site when I or a representative isn't there, visa vie safety and liability. Don't sit, rest, let a kid play on the material piles, they are dangerous, etc. The the 2nd part is about their relationship with the trades people. I want it friendly but not disruptive. Don't ask to borrow their tools, don't tell them how to do their job, do not stand around looking over their shoulder acting like an inspector, don't waste their time, etc.
Clients are interested in the construction process, and that's fine. But most clients don't know and understand the safety concerns around a job site and the construction courtesies we practice. In fact most clients actually mention how appreciative they are to know the ground rules. Also it puts the occasional clinker client on notice. Hope that helps some. Anything you do I didn't cover?
you touch my tools you die. well... not quite. But I spend big bucks on the very best. (All my screwdrivers are Snap-On, my 6" adjustable wrench cost 20 bucks, etc) and I'll be danged if someone is going to use my tools. Just my tool bucket alone would cost ove $800 to replace and that is just hand tools. No meters or power tools.
On the other hand... it sounds like something else is eating this guy. Sit down with him, tell him you want to figure something out, tell him what it looks like to you, and ask him to help you understand what is going on. Communicate!