Tool me Up … Hardi siding and shingles
Have a chance to bid on a whole house siding job …
hardi lap siding all the way around and hardi shingles filling the many gables …
My job to lose … so I’m betting I get it.
Haven’t done much with Hardi … only helped on a few small jobs …
Gotta learn the real way to do it now …
first step … the tools.
Already decided I’ll need a set of power hand shears … looking at the Steelhead.
Will also pick up the hardi recommended blade for the chop saw … just in case …
Which siding nailer should I be looking at?
At the moment … all I have in that catagory is my crappy PC roofer … and my Estwing .. so I’m open to all suggestions
and … anything else I can throw some money at to make life a little easier …
Hope the job goes thru … all winter inside a basement is nice … but I’m ready for some fresh spring air … and even a bit of rain.
Too much inside makes me crave working thru a storm or two …
Thanks,
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Replies
Hitachi nailer, blade for the wormdrive, leave the chop at home. Pump jacks. Cooler. Radio. Shades. New 100' lightweight poly hose. Those are the cats meow.
"The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb " lyrics by Roger Waters
I'm not a contractor, but I did have a house built a few years ago with Hardie Shingle. I love it. Here's a little I picked up on.
Use the high quality Maze brand nails the manufacturer specifies.
You'll need dust masks.
Cutting holes for outlets and such is hard on blades. Plain steel blades are useless. Bimetal blades work, but plan on two blades for each hole. I think an abrasive blade (that is, with grit edge) would work better. I've use them on fiberglass when metal blades would go dull quickly. For small holes, a masonry or glass drill would be good.
The material is heavy and flexible. Two people carrying it helps.
For the shingles you can use panels or loose shingles. If you go with loose shingles, work out the proportions of sizes needed and rough count the shingles in groups of, say, 20 shingles, with the approximately correct number of each size. That will help you keep the sizing looking random. Don't follow a strict repeating pattern because it will look fake. Break up the sequence.
When you paint, wash the dust off first, then let the material dry. Use only 100% acrylic primer, and 100% acrylic topcoats. Do not use oil based primer, no matter what the paint store says, because the oil in the paint will react with the alkali in the siding and the paint will saponify and fall off. The manufacturer is clear about this. The best painting sequence is prime, then caulk, then apply finish coats. Caulk adheres better to dry primer than to bare siding (the same is true for wood).
Hardie has a good website. http://www.jameshardie.com/builder.htm Enjoy it, it's a wonderful product. Make sure you have your advertising sign posted on this job. The siding generates a lot of interest.
Jeff-
There was an article in JLC within about the last six months on installing fiber cement siding. It covered the tools and installation techniques.
If I remember right, the fibercement blade in a wormdrive was prefered over the shears- the shears are too slow. Also look at a 4" diamond blade in an angle grinder for outlets, etc.
Bob
That rings a bell ...
thanks ... I'll have to go dig thru the pile ...
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Not to steal your thread, but do you still have that extra PLS2? If so, I would be interested in purchasing it from you...If so, contact me offline.
Thanks,
Dante
already have it sold and sent off ...
I gave the same deal I got from http://www.toolfetch.com
Give them a look see ...
first time ordering from them ...
very impressed with both the service and the prices.
I ended up sell the "extra" ebay one ... missing the mounting bracket ...
and sold the one from toolfetch ... just didn;t feel right reselling an ebay iten as new ... even though both were in the same packaging ... aside the missing piece.
Got the PLS5 at the same time .. has the same bracket .... so no biggie .. I'll have one handy.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
For the nailer, I got the Duo Fast CNP -65Y , great siding nailer. http://WWW.Duofast.com
The nailer's my biggest choice ..
keep 'em coming ...
actually ..
it'd be better if everyone just agreed on the same gun?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
BTW ... how do we all feel about stainless nails?
Necessary or overkill ... I don;t mind a little bit of overkill ...
and this customer is very interrested in building something that's gonna last ...
so .....
I'm thinking maybe the stainless might be the way to go?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I've used the Senco roofing nailer and had good luck with it. It was only for one job so I just rented it.
So now you have three choices. sorry about that. :-)
Dave
Hardie says either is ok. Stainless steel is necessary only where there is unusual corrosion, say, industrial pollution or salt air. The galvanized, though, must be the real hot double dipped, not the electrogalvanized.
Since this customer is interested enough to ask and is willing to pay I think it would be a good move for your business and reputation to offer this customer the option of stainless steel nails for a stated upcharge. It would show how accomodating and professional you are.
I've never needed to use stainless in a gun before,
Hand driving stainless is a pain in the butt, bending etc easy
are there problems with stainless shooting and bending easy or doing a ricochet
jeff..
1) Certainteed is a better and less expensive product than Hardie... and their contractor program is way better.. they'll send you the jobs....(Certainteed MasterCraftsman )
2) forget the shears.. get a Makita fibercement saw.. and hook it up to an auto -on vacumn
3) blind nail all your claps with a roofing gun.. make sure you can shoot 1 3/4"
we use only hot-dipped galv... Maize nail will make them for your gun.. our roofing guns are Hitachi and Bostich..
for EXPOSED nails ( corners.. end of rakes.. under windows, top course, etc. ) we use a SS ring shank nail.. typically an 8d.. and we use a Bostich side-wall coil nailer (N64) for that...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You're gonna need aleast a case a day of Yuengling to wash down the dust.Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
Remodeling Lead Carpenter w/ 20 years exp.
+ A Construction Engineering Degree
Located in Elmira, NY
Incessantly Whining Liberal
Sarcastic Smartass
Cunning Linguist
Family Man
Dog Lover (NOT THAT WAY YOU PREVERT!!!)
I am planning on using fibercement board as the siding on my welding shop instead of the usual metal siding. I had thought I would use Certainteed as I like the fake wood grain better than Hardi's. I sent an email to Certainteed's tech support asking about using it without any backing on 24" steel girts to achieve a wind speed load rating of 90mph. Certainteed said that their product would not meet the required 90mph rating without a plywood backing. I talked to a Hardi rep at the JLC-Live and they said it was not a problem with their product. I assume he was talking about their run of the mill HardiPanel. He also mentioned that Hardi is coming out with a cement board product that could be used for my shop roof directly on the purlins but that it would probably be a year or more before it hits the market - and I hope to have my shop in operation by then. Anyway, it looks like it is going to be Hardi for my shop.
in my case the customer's already picked out the hardi and the pattern they like ...
I know when not to confuse the issue.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I like the Duo-Fast with the adj. depth setting, you can also cut Hardie with a regular carbide tipped blade. Shoot, you can even mount the blade backwards and cut it. Just don't plan on cutting any wood with it later.
Jeff, The fellow that reccomended the abrasive coated blade for the jigsaw was right on. One blade will do a whole job. A bimetal blade will be a butterknife after a few cuts. There is a company selling a lap gauge in FHB that you might want to try. The fellow doing the Hardi demo that I went to swore by them. One man can hang alone with them although I would not reccomend that. http://www.thelaborsaver.com Hardi is great stuff except for the dust factor. Good Luck Jay
Get that job brother! I love working with the stuff, which makes me somewhat of a strange bird around here. I like a Hitachi FC blade in my old Hitachi 8 1/2" slider. Blades run about $40 and will easily get you through a house and a coupla tile jobs. Make small cutouts (electrical boxes, faucets etc) with Rotozip and a tile blade.
Personally I don't find the dust to be that bad. I don't use dust collection or even a mask. I'm not recommending it, but just trying to say that it's not as unbearable as some make it out to be. Ask me again in 10 years!
Here's the big one....go with the Hitachi NV 75. Will shoot up to a 3" nail which can be handy. The older NV 65AH is still around, but won't shoot the larger nail, is actually heavier, and in my parts, costs about $50 more than the new one! Has easy toolless depth of drive changes, just turn a little wheel. I wouldn't hang FC with anything but stainless nails. Why hang a siding with a 50yr warranty with 20 yr nails? The plastic collated nails are alot nicer to work with than wire-collated, but a little bit pricier. Less jams as well. Same goes for the better branded nails. Maze...good, Hitachi....good, Grip-Rite....bad!
You probably won't be around to paint the job, but if you ever do.....FC paints up sooooooo nice. I can't say enough good things about it. Hardi-plank and Azek PVC trim make the BEST of bedfellows. I love talking people away from the "Dark Side" also known as vinyl and into the way of the future!
Now you're gettin' me all excited for Spring! Maybe I'll come down to PA and help you hang it just for the fun of it!
EDIT: Save your money on that "labor saver" gadget. It works great on short pieces of siding......but you don't need it for short pieces now do you? Make my own guage and just slide it along while nailing off to keep my "weather" consistant.
Edited 2/26/2004 9:04:48 PM ET by dieselpig
that's good to hear another opinion about the dust ...
dust never bothers me much ... like ya said ... ask again in 10 yrs ...
Probably too much time spent as a little kid tearing down plaster ceilings half a mile down the road from the steel mill(s) ...
Between the 100 year old plague infested plaster dust mixed with rat s#!t ...
and what ever residue the steel mills had been pumping into the neighborhood ...
I figure if I didn't glow at night by then ... I was in pretty good shape.
Reminds me of a commedien I heard years ago ...
Talking about being the teachers pet and getting to "clap" the erasors at the end of the day ...
Said from all that chalk dust .... at the age of 8 ... he had the lungs of a 40 year old W.Va coal miner.
Felt that way growing up blowing black snot outta my head after a day of forced child labor .....
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Jeff, Just like RW said in the first reply. Keep it simple.
A roofing gun will be just fine if you roof as well. If you wind up with a siding gun make sure you don't spank the nail right through the piece. Don't even bother hand driving if want to get the job done.
As far as a blade i found going with a 16 tooth or less blade cuts the dust down. Beware though the dust can form numerous cement boogers in your nose that can hang around for days. Recommend a mask, longsleeves, eye protection, etc.
Another good tip is to hold the planks vertically so they won't snap when you are handing them up to be nailed. (don't carry the planks flat!)
Good Luck
Jon
Good advice as always, Mike, but it looks like you're making that poor guy work under some roosting seagulls!
BTW, what kind of saw is that? Makita? Looks a bit like my Festool.Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
jake.. we prime all our trim.. so all of us look like seagull targets..
white primer is just like black roof cement.. won't stay put.. has to travel and spread
that's a Makita fiber-cement sawMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Talked to the Hardi guy giving the demo on Hardi siding at the JLC-Live in Portland, OR, a few months ago.
He said the shears are OK but slow. He preferred the Makita fibercement blade in a sidewinder. He cut rabbet in the trim (he used 1" trim stock that Hardi recently introduced, which to me looked more like 1" sheet rock than fiber cement board...) also using a Makita blade in a table saw. He minimized the dust (I was surprised by how little there was at the demo) by simply running a hose from the dust port on the saw to a 5gal bucket with the hose through a hole in the lid.
I am planning on using my Senco SN65 coil nailer to attach Hardi Panel. There was a representative at the show from one of the nail companies that said it would work fine (don't remember the name of the nail company but it was one recommended by Hardi).
Was originally planning on getting one of the Senco automatic screw guns but it appeared that the nailer would do the job.
There is lots of info on the James Hardi websites (both Australian and US) but I didn't find the info on nailing that the rep at the show said was on there.
CertainTeed brand is easier to get in our area, and cheeper. From what I can tell, it is just as good. Our contractor recomended it. The lumber store said that Hardi can be carried and installed by one person. CertainTeed snaps eaiser, so use it if you have help. Once it is up, they say that is is the same. Identical warranties. They said the window of time that we have to paint the primed boards is longer with CertainTeed. Locally they all carry 8" boards. We want 6". That is a special order=more money. So, we'll use the cheaper brand. We like the octagon shingles of CertainTeed. we will use them above the window-line of the peak areas. Before we buy-- does anyone know of a real problem with CertainTeed?
I HAVE BEEN USING THE HARDI PRODUCTS FOR YEARS (STAINLESS ONLY) FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS ON THE OBX EVEN THE MAZE RUST THROUGH THE PAINT IN 4 OR 5 YEARS
wouldn't use your chop unless you really don't like it.
if you use the shears, set up a trash can directly under the cut station, no mess to clean up at the end of the night....
get the 70ish dollar blade made for hardi for your circ saw, I think hitachi or someone makes it, available at your favorite box store...
you can gang cut the pieces with the circ saw, pick a circ saw you don't like terribly much, the dust kills...
nailers, all I can advice is NOT the portercable siding nailer it's a real POS, broke down on 3 jobs in a row last summer.
Lose the estwing get a nice wooden handle hammer (I'm newly converted so preach it alot)... you want elbows when ya get old ;)
can't remember the name, but the siding spacer things that clip on make life a bit nicer.
hire your helper back
and there was a recent JLC article about it that was good.